"They Aren't Real", God, gods, satan, devil.

I've just noticed another grouping of people that seem to only want to go onto any thread having to do with any charactor such as "God" only to say that "They aren't Real".

That's a relitive absolute statements, and I can't help but wonder to myself under what powers these people feel they have the right to make such a judgement.

There is no tricks going on here. I'd like to hear your point. I mean, if someone says God is real, at least they have reason not to be able to prove such a thing. However it just seems a little funny to me for a mortal creature who streches out its life at 70 years to claim absolute ability to deny such charactors.

What makes you feel you know, or have the right, to judge they aren't real so absoultely?

Someone saying that there is NO God is like saying there is no more that 1 billion stars in the Universe and someone saying there IS a God is like saying saying there is more than a 1 trillion stars.

No body knows if there is a God or not. Believe is something different. Like i said someone coming on here saying God is not true is like saying i know how many stars they are in the universe.


We Don't know! We want to know! But we don't!


[edit on 5-12-2008 by TSOM87]

Originally posted by TSOM87

We Don't know! We want to know! But we don't!

Again, this thread is not meant to swey anyone's viewpoint as I'm just trying to understand another's persepective. I agree no one can "know" there is no "God" however I disagree that no one can "know" there is a God.

Because I am one that does "Know" there is. Just because I am unable to show doesn't mean I don't know.

I can claim to "know" their is such a charactor because such a charactor would be living and knowable.

Question is how would one small unattached human think it would be able to claim absolutely "knowing" there is not?

"Mortal Creatures" is a key word here....until people wake up and remember that it's all connected...doesn't matter what "names" are given it....such things will be.

Every one has an opinion, thats part of free will...it's when they realize that those opinions are subjective to their reality and that there are multiple realities at play, that the point becomes moot.

~Holly

Hmm? I'm not sure what you're getting at and why you posted it in this forum. Refuting creationism isn't the same as refuting God. Of course no one knows one way or the other.

reply to post by FSBlueApocalypse


Well "God" is the creator. But if there was no God then this creation still had a start point. I think the most basic understanding of my putting this thread here is the factor of the question at hand.

Man does well to live 70 years. The creation is ageless. Their is no logical way to approach the understanding of the creation in years. Thusly how does a speck reach up into the void with such an absolut viewpoint?

The main point of this thread is the Origins of everything from the viewpoint of a barly animal looking upon creation.



[edit on 5-12-2008 by Incarnated]

Originally posted by Incarnated
Well "God" is the creator.

This is a perfect example of what you are saying only flip side.

So I ask you:

Thusly, how does a speck reach up into the void with such an absolut viewpoint?

I am not really asking you, I already know that you know the certainty such a statement. There again, YOU know, but Joe Blow doesn't and you can't just tell him/her.

The creation is ageless.

Again, a pretty absolute statement.

Being a "barly animal" (not sure what that means but I'll go with it...I do eat wheat) I do know that I know nothing. That's why I love this place, I read, research, cross-reference, and debate to help me try and understand where everybody is coming from.

God, the word itself I believe is taken to most people as being affiliated with a particular religion such as Judaism, Christianity, etc... thus if it's a religion they cannot accept it. Just a thought.

I think a lot of people don't think they have the right to make such a claim until they see someone make a claim like...oh, I don't know....something like "God is the creator."

Who is this God you speak of?

You can not prove that there is a God, and you can not prove that there is not a God.

It comes down to faith. You either have it, or you don't.

The Bible is NOT proof, as it is a book written by men. Your faith may tell you that it was divinely inspired, but how can you empirically prove that? You can't.

I believe that there is a God, but I have faith.

Originally posted by Holly N.R.A.
"Mortal Creatures" is a key word here....

Only for dichotomous thinkers that seek what they aren't.

reply to post by Rollinster


Yes but I can know such things because I state I know "God". Be it my imaginary friend, or the real source and center of all creation, in my statement that I "know God" I'm saying in knowing God you can know such things.

However in saying "God doesn't exist" you're taking away all your rights to know anything but animalistic tendancies.

I am not a speck, as I am united with the infanate being. I'm part of the "force". Man, I'm a frickin Jedi Master.

However in saying God doesn't exist you're saying you're the greatest power you know, and that isn't too great.

Originally posted by Incarnated
I've just noticed another grouping of people that seem to only want to go onto any thread having to do with any charactor such as "God" only to say that "They aren't Real".

That's a relitive absolute statements, and I can't help but wonder to myself under what powers these people feel they have the right to make such a judgement.

There is no tricks going on here. I'd like to hear your point. I mean, if someone says God is real, at least they have reason not to be able to prove such a thing. However it just seems a little funny to me for a mortal creature who streches out its life at 70 years to claim absolute ability to deny such charactors.

What makes you feel you know, or have the right, to judge they aren't real so absoultely?

there is no evidence for god so there is justification to say it is not real...
on the other hand the people claiming there is a god have no right to make that statement because they have NO evidence and are making a claim based upon nothing, there is no justification for claiming such....

reply to post by checkitb4uwreckit


I'm saying their is no reason to make claims of absolute that God doesn't exist.

However any assumption that there is no evidence that God does Exist is a flat out lie.

I'm that evidence that God exists. God speaks to me. God has spoken to people thoughout space and time and this is a real documented phenomenon.

reply to post by Incarnated


I'm an atheist, but can I absolutely refute the existence of god? No, I cannot. I do however know enough about humanity to see the plausibility of our collective psyche imagining such a being. If God does exist, then other gods, say Zeus, cannot. If Zeus did, then it would either break the First Commandment, or make God a pretty big attention seeker. People once worshiped Zeus not unlike Christians worship God now. Therefore one can deduce that something has to have been invented and worshiped, falsely. Either that, or Christianity is not the true religion. My atheism stems from my senses, I cannot force myself to believe in something when all logic tells me that it doesn't. There is simply no reason for this being to be as elusive as he is, if he exists.

Originally posted by Incarnated
reply to post by checkitb4uwreckit

 

I'm saying their is no reason to make claims of absolute that God doesn't exist.

However any assumption that there is no evidence that God does Exist is a flat out lie.

I'm that evidence that God exists. God speaks to me. God has spoken to people thoughout space and time and this is a real documented phenomenon.

Simply put, you are not evidence due to your religious bias. Gods of all sorts supposedly talk to people, many times this occurs due to a psychological condition.

reply to post by Incarnated

Yes but I can know such things because I state I know "God".

I see.
Well if I state that I "know Billybluebob" to be my Supreme Being I can know such things as well.

Animalistic tendencies? Really? That's all people have left who don't believe in God? I would bet there is a professor or two with substantial knowledge in certain areas that would qualify them as having more than animalistic tendencies.

These posts here by "non-believers" proves that they have more than just animalistic tendencies.

I am not a speck, as I am united with the infanate being. I'm part of the "force". Man, I'm a frickin Jedi Master.

That's funny. (really, I'm watching the 1st trilogy again right now) I am glad that your belief makes you feel like that. Actually, it's what I love about religion, the ability to get so many people excited and feeling good.

However in saying God doesn't exist you're saying you're the greatest power you know, and that isn't too great.

Not at all. Again, not knowing your God does not mean I don't have one of my own.

reply to post by Rollinster


"Man will promptly defend any thought, not at variance with his expectations, nor contrary to his own interests, as the eyes can only see what the mind has, is, and will be prepared to comprehend from the heart."

peacemaker

Originally posted by Incarnated
reply to post by checkitb4uwreckit

 

I'm that evidence that God exists. God speaks to me. God has spoken to people thoughout space and time and this is a real documented phenomenon.

Cthulhu speaks to me, other people claim to know Cthulhu; to have dreamed of him and felt his restless slumber. Therefore he must exist; sleeping in a sunken city deep in the Pacific ocean off the coast of Antarctica.

reply to post by Incarnated


Well, as far as God goes (capital G), there are numerous contradictions in the mythology itself. Surely none of us can know for sure, but I'm fairly confident that an omnipotent, omniscient, infinite God would not contradict himself.

As far as other gods, you could claim that there is a god and I could claim that there probably isn't because there's no evidence which suggests that there is a god.
If I said that I believed in the toothfairy, I'm sure you would feel justified in trying to convince me that the toothfairy is just a myth, right?

It all comes down to the burdon of proof. Until the person claiming that there is a god requires evidence for his/her belief, he/she should not criticize someone who claims there isn't a god for not having evidence to the contrary of the initial claim.

This is how you prove god doesn’t exist:

God is supernatural meaning everything we know about the universe is natural and everything we don’t know can be labelled by some as supernatural – we don’t know how so god did it.

If God is supernatural then he must have used a supernatural means to create the universe because if he used a natural means, then he’s using some sort of scientific knowledge – it doesn’t matter if we don’t understand from our own understanding what that knowledge is, as soon as the natural is being created, god is using natural principles of physics of some sort. If god is just using a supernatural means then he’s just using magic – poof out of nothing.

Now a logical fact is that magic doesn’t exist. Things can’t just poof into existence which means god had to use some sort of scientific knowledge to create the universe, which means god can only use a natural means to create things, he can’t use a supernatural means because magic simply doesn’t exist. As I’ve already explained, even if that magic is just science that we don’t understand yet, then he’s still using some sort of natural means.

Meaning, god himself must by logic also be natural, it’s just we don’t have the scientific know how to figure out how he exists. Now here’s the main problem. Even though we don’t know everything about the universe and how it works, we can still use what we do know to make observational sceitific theories about how it does work. And because our scientific understanding has reached such heights, we know for a fact how certain principles of the universe works.

Because of our understanding of how the universe works at the moment we can then deduce that a god figure doesn’t exist even if it’s natural. The universe simply doesn’t work in a god created everything reality.

Now, god believes will then use the theist evolution stance. This is what is suggested after finding out heaven isn’t in the sky. Because we don’t know YET what happened before the big bang the claim is that after god created the big bang, he then left it to its own devices. If you are going to attribute what we don’t know to a god cause simply because we just don’t know.....isn’t that just a little weak minded?

the gods are all related. the gods of rome are related to the gods of greece are related to the gods of egypt are related to the gods of mesopotamia are related to the gods of india are related to the gods of china are related to the gods of the americas.

all the same banana.
there is evidence in addition to pure speculation or faith, such as written texts and artifacts. these have just as much potential of describing real beings as similar texts describing rulers and statuary of the same. the only thing that modifies our understanding, confusing and blurring the issue, is TIME.

chronos is enki. and that's all i gotta say about that.

SUPERnatural, means something that can't be explained with the laws of the universe that humans are capable of understanding. we have a narrow spectrum of vision (visible spectrum) and a narrow auditory range. our senses are confined to some stimuli and not others (imagine being able to feel every neutrino as it passed threw your body, that would be bad!). in short, we only brush the surface of the natural (which is only natural to us but might not be natural to some other sentient speices), so the SUPERnatural cannot be defined as truly unnatural, till we know the extent of all potential lifeforms in the universe and sorry that's a job for something much bigger than us.