Ancient Extraterrestrials

This thread serves to summarize the "Ancient Astronaut Theory" (AAT), also called the "Paleocontact Theory" by scientists such as Carl Sagan.
It will also examine objections against the theory and rebuttals of those objections.

Images Posted in this Opening: Some Depictions that are popular within AAT Circles

AAT say that earth has been visited by ETs and/or technologically superior humans in very ancient times and that these events have been recorded as encounters with "Gods", "Flying Chariots", "Wars of Worlds" in ancient mythologies, legends and religions.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7e7590757ec7.jpg[/atsimg]

The general publics resistance against the Ancient Astronaut Theory derives from the fact that it appears to contradict two very fundamental pillars of societies belief-systems:

* Religious Creationism
* Darwinist Evolution Theory

As I will show in other posts, it does not actually contradict Creationism or Evolution, but as it appears to it is met with resistance and an ongoing smear-campaign perpetuated by certain circles (I will go into this later in the thread).

It will however require us to rewrite large portions of our textbooks on religion and history...and this is why its emergence into the mainstream is moving along very slowly.

AAT is not the same by every researcher. Zecharia Sitchin (originator of the theories surrounding the Sumerian Annunaki) for example believes we were not only visited by extraterrestrials but actually created by them. Others say we were only ocassionally visited by ETs throughout history.

Another theory, that is almost unknown, even among UFOlogists is the "Mimicry-Theory" which proposes an intelligence that shows up in different forms basically "posing" according to the general belief-systems of the time. We will examine this too.

The best work on AAT today is, in my personal opinion, published by the Swiss "Ancient Astronaut Society" which unites hundreds of scientists and researchers presenting their latest findings in journals. Many of these do not make it to the bookstore although they contain true gems of AAT. Some scientists do not want them to become too popular as not to diminish their reputation in academic circles.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/2c2f5c8d815b.jpg[/atsimg]

Some of the evidence AA-Theorists use, which we will be examining in this Thread:

1. The similarity of ancient accounts, mythologies, cults and religions from all around the world, all basically describing "Gods" that flew around, performed technical "miracles", created things, destroyed them, taught humans skills, etc. In AAT we propose that our ancestors were describing technological events they didnt have the right vocabulary for. So saying "flames came out of the flying serpent" could very well be the description of an aircraft...for example.

A good example of Global Correlation in regards to a "Goddess" I posted a while ago in this thread:

Tara - Extraterrestrial Goddess

In that thread we could see Goddess "Tara" showing up in Buddhism, Hinduism, with the Druids, the Cheyenne of America, South America and Polynesia.

2. Out-of-place & Out-of-time Artifacts: These are archaeological findings that contradict the conventional doctrine of ancient history and/or hint at more superior knowledge of the ancients. The book "Forbidden Archaeology" by Michael Cremo is an example of a researcher focussing on OOPA (out-of-place-artifacts).

3. Cargo-Cults: Indigenous tribes that had supposedly never been in contract with our civilization were known to mistake sailors and discoverers for “returning Gods”. This points out that these tribes had probably been visited by such “advanced Gods” at an earlier date.

4. De-Evolution. Some cultures display evidence of De-Evolution rather than progress-over-time. The best example is ancient Egypt which is known to have started at its height and descended from dynasty to dynasty instead of developing. The more mediocre the Pyramids are, the later they were found to be built! This indicates a higher level of technology in earlier times than we even have records for.

5. The Missing Evolutionary Link: AAT can provide the so-called “missing link” in Evolution-Theory. While much of Evolution Theory can be proven and demonstrated, some things are unexplained, for example just where intelligence suddenly came from. According to AAT evolution could have been influenced from outside sources, such as extraterrestrials. While this doesn’t solve the problem of where ETs got their intelligence, some scientists do believe they have found evidence for different types of “interference” within our evolutionary history.

6. The Missing Link between scientific evolution theory and religious creationism: For Science there are no Gods and for Religion the Gods were something unexplainable or almighty. AAT closes the gap between Science and Religion by saying, yes the Gods existed, but no, they are not what you think. Unfortunately neither Science nor Religion will welcome the obvious with open arms. It should be obvious to all but the mentally challenged that there can also be a Supreme Being ("Almighty God") in a Universe full of extraterrestrials and that the existence of extraterrestrials does not contradict evolution-theory in any way.

7. Mythological Accounts turning out to be true. This is where it gets interesting. One example: In my Thread The Rainbow Serpents it was shown that some of the very ancient Mythology of the Australian Aborigines concerning geological data of the way places looked ten-thousands of years ago was verified by scientists.
Therefore: Who are we to dismiss their accounts as "fiction" (which is already implied by calling their historical accounts "Mythology").

Presenting my case for Ancient ETs will take up to 5 article-length posts, to be continued in the next posts

UPDATE

Reference to Evidence posted throughout the thread:

Page 1:

* Questionable Tactics against Ancient Astronaut Theory
* Signs of Ancient Genetic Engineering
* Reports of Ancient Space Flight
* Reports of Ancient Time Dilitation
* Similarities in Global Mythology
* Mythology turning out to be scientifically verified
* Cargo-Cults

Page 3:

* Odd Skulls
* African Mythology confirming how the Gods "descended from the Sky" to interact with humans
* Exodus 19: "God" appearing with smoke and lightning, on "the wings of an eagle" and wanting people not to see his aircraft
* More Biblical passages indicating the association with flying craft connected to smoke and fire.


Page 4

* Abydos Helicopter
* Winged Discs

Page 7-15

* The Mystery of Mawangdui
* The Validity of AAT as a Theory
* Ancient Astronauts: Picture Gallery (including the ancient drilled hole)
* Elohim: A Plural
* The Mimicry Theory
* Nazca Lines Part 1 - The Official Versions
* Book Burnings: A Cause of lost Wisdom?

Page 16:

* Magnetic and Electric Anomalies on, at and in the Nazca Plateau

* The Missing Links in Ancient Agriculture

Page 17:

* Ancient Nano-Spirals

* Non-Human Prehistoric Skulls

* The Ancient Mahabarate & Ramanyana confirm AAT.

Page 18:

Chinese Archaeologists ask: Why was our culture more advanced at its beginnings than in later Dynasties?

Page 27:

The only known stone pyramid in China is in a place called Qufu.
Any relation to the Egyptian Khufu, who is said to have built the Great Pyramid of Giza?

[edit on 30-3-2009 by Skyfloating]

Debunked. I recommend:
Stiebing, W. Ancient Astronauts, Cosmic Collisions. 1984, Prometheus.
A good skeptical introduction.


Story, R. The Space Gods Revealed.




Thiering, B. & Castel, E., eds. Some Trust in Chariots. 1975, Popular Library.
16 skeptical articles.

White, P. The Past is Human. 1974, Taplinger.
An archaeological perspective.

Articles about Ancient Astronauts

reply to post by Skyfloating


Great post.
I'd love to read more. Any websites with more details on these topics?

s/f

I would say that we don't really know enough about ancient history to really be able to either debunk or prove such a complex hypothesis for the genesis of human technological society. Micheal Cremo is one to be read regarding the ancient history of mankind, as he has good insight.

My personal feeling is the history we do know is sometimes wrong and always incomplete, and that the real history probably does include alien contact. This is a violent planet that has been inhabited for eons. It is not impossible that we have had previous civilizations, lost in the mist of time because they never made it off planet, or lost in the mist of time because they were either outposts of bigger galactic civilizations that were shut down or simply that they left this planet for other ones. Who knows?

However, one thing I will say, we do not need the ancient astronaut hypothesis to explain mankind, although it makes for a cool science fiction/historical movie. We could be homegrown and just studied by extraterrestrials.

One thing that I do know for sure is that there is something up there in the skies.

continued from opening post

The Smear-Campaign against the Ancient Astronaut Theory

The theory started gaining ground in the late 50s and early 60s with the French Author Robert Charroux being one of the first to publish. It was first popularized on a mass-market scale by swiss author Erich von Daniken. Later popular authors were Zecharia Sitchin and Graham Hancock.


Daniken


Hancock

Daniken being the first who mass-popularized it was also the first to be hit hard by a smear-campaign so intense that one could easily suspect a conspiracy behind it.

The smear-campaign consisted of finding inconsistencies in his early books and branding them hoax and fraud, looking for missteps in his private life in an attempt at character assasination and publishing false and deceptive information on Danikens theories and intentions.

This campaign resulted in more than half of Danikens books not even being published in English. This is significant, because they are

a) His later books, in which inconsistencies of his early works were removed and his theory improved

b) Books in which he offered rebuttals and counter-documentation to claims made in the press and by enemies.

One such infamous case was the "Debunkers" book published by Ronald Story in the late 70s. Many dont know that Daniken published an entire book refuting Ronald Story (German Title, translated: "Evidence")

Skeptics, for example, keep citing Danikens "hoax" of the "Metal Library" in Ecuador. In fact, they repeat this case again and again, in the hope of branding him a "fraud" who's other works should not be read.

Counter-Evidence, including legal documentation and government-documents by Daniken were included in the Book with the title "Disinformed" (my translation from German)...which was not published in English, thus perpetuating the myth of Daniken having deliberately staged a hoax. More on this later.

___________________________________________

The smear-campaign against Daniken, Sitchin and others continues to this day with false statements and manipulative speech patterns being used by self-proclaimed "Debunkers" and "Skeptics".

In taking a very close look at the objections against AAT I opened the Skeptics Dictionary, one of the major resources of these "Debunkers".

What follows are examples of the non-objective, unverifiable and plain stupid attacks on AAT - reflective of those that keep being repeated in the press. Quoted from the Skeptics Dictionary.

"(AAT)...is a sweeping attack on the abilities and memories of ancient peoples"

This is ironic because we feel that the "official version of history" is a sweeping attack on the memories of ancient peoples, who's mythological accounts are dismissed as "fiction".

"Danikens reply was that his deception was justified because some people would only believe if they saw proof"

"

This instance of Daniken joking was taken at face-value and used in several press-releases.

"The likelihood that these drawings are related to the natives religion or science is not considered"

A baseless and emotionally charged statement as I and many other researchers have considered other explanations.

“But it seems more likely that prehistoric peoples themselves were responsible for their own art, technology and culture.”

What often follows by "Debunkers" are statements such as:

"You think they were too stupid to build this stuff themselves?"

"You think Aliens built the Pyramids?"

"You are a racist"

These hysterically unobjective statements have nothing to do with what AAT is proposing. We acknowledge the possibility of advanced humans living alongside less advanced ones. We do not label less advanced humans as "stupid savages" just because they did not possess the technology of the "Gods". We are hinting that humans may have gotten some "help" in building objects such as the Pyramids...or maybe not. In any case, the "stupid savages" argument is a misrepresentation of what we are proposing.

“And why restrict one's examples to Egypt, Mexico, and other non-European countries? What about the builders of Newgrange or Stonehenge?“

Another blatant lie. Daniken and other researchers have published countless books about European sites. In fact Newgrange and Stonehenge are featured in a Daniken book called (translated from German) "The Stone Age was different".

“The ancient astronaut hypothesis is unnecessary”

One of many broad and general statements that try to suppress asking further questions.

Quoted from the same source on Zecharia Sitchin:

“(AAT is) especially attractive to those who are ignorant of biblical and historical scholarship”

Having read the Bible, the Koran and the Talmud, among many other things, I am not going to let a Debunker tell me I am ignorant of the bible or history. And Im sure Sitchin himself is not ignorant of ancient scripture.

“He has received nothing but ridicule from scientific archaeologists”

“Sitchin's ideas have been appropriated by Raël, another wise man, who has started his own religion”

Many statements made by debunkers do not address the evidence brought forward, but are made to make attack the person, to make the researcher look like a lunatic. No serious AAT researcher considers the Rael cult a serious source of information.

Taken from other Debunkers sources on the Internet:

“(Daniken) was by no means the first to propose it (AAT)”. “He was not the first fringe writer to adopt this stance”

Yes, and so what? I wonder why so many debunkers ramble on about him not being the first to propose AAT.

“Chariots of the Gods?, published in 1967 after no fewer than twenty-two rejections, became a worldwide bestseller”

And the rejections are supposed to prove what?

“made him wealthy through the sale of over sixty million copies of his books.”

The AAT authors most attacked are those who actually make some money with their research. As they often make more money than "respectable scholars", it is understandable that jealousy would arise.

“The most convincing piece of evidence he has ever produced is the cover slab of the tomb of the Lord Pacal in the Pyramid of the Inscriptions at Palenque, weak stuff though it is.”

Unfortunately, Skeptics keep referring to Danikens oldest books from the early 70s and late 60s with hardly any mention of his works from the 80s, 90s and 2000s.

To be continued in the next posts

Originally posted by warrenb
reply to post by Skyfloating

 

Great post.
I'd love to read more. Any websites with more details on these topics?

s/f

Yep...I'll be posting it ALL in the course of this thread.

From my point of view I would take the ancients evidence over the so called "experts of debunking 101" lame explanations any time anywhere.

Not a single one of them can provide hard evidence like that shown in the pictures to support their "theory".

Just alot of jibber jabber and straight face looks on camera as if they know what they are talking about, when inside they are poopin the pants and making a big stink.




Cheers!!!!

reply to post by Skyfloating


oh yes, damn the skeptics who demand real evidence, instead of looking at some cave drawings and say "aliens!" and such.

Cave drawings an be fascinating but none conslusiverly show aliens. There are no alien remains, no alien devices left behind, no nothing. The idea that man was somehow to stupid to do alot of the things man has done without alien ntervention is frankly insulting.

I wasn't raised with religion. When I was young, God was like an obscure country singer to me. When I heard the Ancient Astronaut Theory the whole "Gods from above" thing finally all made sense. There's no way to prove or disprove events over 5,000 years ago, but It is definitely within the realm of probability and for me it gives an answer to tenacity of the concept of God and religion.

reply to post by NavalFC


this is actually a very interesting topic
go be troll elsewhere



[edit on 3-12-2008 by warrenb]

AAT closes the gap between Science and Religion by saying, yes the Gods existed, but no, they are not what you think. Unfortunately neither Science nor Religion will welcome the obvious with open arms. It should be obvious to all but the mentally challenged that there can also be a Supreme Being ("Almighty God") in a Universe full of extraterrestrials and that the existence of extraterrestrials does not contradict evolution-theory in any way.

The problem with skeptics is that many assume you are coming to conclusions because you want to come to them when they are the ones usually doing just that. It’s really interesting to observe.

Look at all the evidence and closing that gap by including aliens in the two theories makes sense. Does that mean we are right and they are wrong? Not necessarily, but they often dismiss our conclusion as us seeing something in the evidence that isn’t there. I don’t see how anyone couldn’t admit some of this evidence is very telling and relates to extraterrestrials unless they have blinders on. I guess that’s where we agree to disagree.

continued from opening post

Ancient Technology

In various threads I have pointed out descriptions and indicators of ancient technology. I will summarize some of these points in this post.

Genetic Engineering

My thread Serapis - genetically engineered Hybrid? shows how ancient historians not only report on the "Gods" creating hybrids but also depicted them all over the place.

Time Dilitation

We know of Time-Dilitation when travelling at extreme speeds from Einstein. Many hundred ancient accounts knew of it too, apparently. Only a few examples:

* For Vishnu (Hindu God) a human lifetime went by “in the blink of an eye”.

* The mythical Chinese Kings were “heavenly rulers” that flew around in “Firey Dragons” and lived 18 000 years. Their first ruler, P`an Ku flew around the universe for 2229000 earth years.

* According to the Bible in the Hands of God “all becomes one time and t wo times and half a time”. From the Psalms: “A thousand years are for you like one day”.

* The ancient Japanese text Tango-Fudoki talks about an “island child” being abducted by a flying ship, taken to the Pleijades for a short trip. But opon his retrun to earth, 300 years have passed. On a side-note: Legends of Eskimos speak of “flying houses” that people had “a long time ago”. Other legends speak of machines that cleaned up the snow automatically. (Source: F. Peters / The Book of the Eskimos). Legend also has it that the Eskimos arrived in the arctic north by “giant iron birds”.

Space-Flight

One example for now:

One of the oldest space-flight reports comes from the Etana Epic of Babylonian Mythology. It contains numerous descriptions of ascension and flight above the earth and repeatedly describes how the earth gets smaller the higher you go. The Etana Epic, which is estimated to be more than 2000 years old (though others say more than 5000) can be viewed in the British Museum. In chapter 12/13 Etana addresses the God Samas asking for the “Herb of Immortality”. Samas tells him to go to the “Eagle” and the Eagle asks him what he wants. Etana responds with “Give me the herb of Immortality”. The Eagle takes Etana “on a ride to the Heavens”. During the flight, The Eagle points out how the earth is getting smaller six times, using words like “the sea now looks like a river”, “the country now looks like a mountain”, “the earth is now like a tree planting”, “Behold my friend, how the earth gets smaller! The country now looks like cake!” As the land disappears, etana says “I want to go back! Take me back!” upon which he is taken back by the Eagle and the earth gets bigger and bigger and the land comes closer and closer.

To be continued in several posts to come

as a religeous person the Ancient Astronaut Theory does make alot of sence to me, and when you read religeous texts and mythologies with this in mind many of what we refer to now as myths and legends do make sense

When the skeptics continue to say the same skeptical argument of "nonsense" and "rediculous"..then to me that only tips the scale even more to the evidence in hand..be it cave drawings, huge stone walls etched with hyroglyphs that show more than just people walking around mindless in the ancient times.

Obviously there is more being shown than just simple lives. And when all the skeptics have to counter that evidence is more "nonsense" and "rediculous" papers from some other skeptic, well that pretty much nails the coffin shut on their skepticisim IMO.

I think that skeptics do what they do because they refuse to go byond the little box of comfort zone and status quo and nothing else can exsist byond that..including themselves. Tho the ancients were far more advanced mentally to accept these things and then document them as best they could, at least we dont see skeptic remarks of "nonsense" and "rediculous" in ANY ancient document or stone wall or hyroglyph...ANYWHERE!!!


Cheers!!!!

rapinbats: well put

RFBurns: Notice how the skeptic in this thread didnt actually address any of points...I havent even mentioned caves in my posts up to now.

Im actually glad skeptics behave this way because it strengthens the case for alternative views.

reply to post by Skyfloating


I can agree to that, that they do help strengthen the view to the alternative..I will give them that.


I was once a huge skeptic about alot of this stuff. But I simply took a second look, and began to actually study these pictures and ancient documents in books and online. And I find it very difficult to simply dismiss any of it as nonsense or rediculous.

I also keep in mind that 2000 years from now, some archeologists and theorists of the future will find our records and our history. And even in the future, there will be the future skeptic that will debunk the finding that mankind in the 21st century had computers and used to communicate in forums across a vast interconnected network that spanned the entire globe.



Cheers!!!!

Ancient astronauts have always fascinated me and I read as much as I could on them a few years ago. This is a great summation of all I have read.

S+F.

I cant remember which book and i tried to google this and found nothing. I remember reading about the advancement of the wheat crop. There was a major gap between the very first wheat crops and the hybrids that randomly popped up thousands of years ago.

The first crops were weak and very suceptable to disease and drought and all of the sudden there was a new strain which would have taken thousands of years of experimentation and gene splicing, just appeared out of no where. The probability of this happening was a billion to one. Either these ancient people had developed advanced bio labs out of the blue of they had some help from some very advanced people.

If you have any info on this or have heard of it before let me know.

Thanks so much for what I know is going to be a real treat of a thread!! I have always resonated to this ancient ET theory. Have just started the OP and had to stop and say Thanks!

Great thread, i have been reading a lot about this and am convinced that ancient man was being visited openly. I look forward to more of your posts

Some more AAT Images for you:

Egypt:

Four unknown symbols located ath the Great Pyramid entrance (on the left side). They seem to bear a resemblance to the Greek alphabet, and they're very similar to alien symbols found on wreckage of the Roswell UFO crash (on the right side).

Japan:

Ancient figurines resemble modern day space suits.

I'm actually quite disappointed with myself, I used to have quite a few more images on AAT but can't be asked to find it at the moment. I'll give you some updates later if I find them.

Faust.



[edit on 12/7/2008 by semperfortis]