Everyone is in the Militia ... all able bodied Freeman

www.youtube.com...

Record Gun Sales - Massive Amounts of Ammunition, even stuff - I thought was like for war zones -- its coming out of the cracks ... ooozing
like Mogadishu - Balkins ... >? America ...

Well, I still say all we have to do is nothing ... just wait them out.
I support some changes in the long term vision for America .. As a long term goal for us Americans... Even though I believe they did 911 only to bring about this state of civil strife.. I always found it odd they never showed dead people on TV.. every place I visited overseas, well they wanted you to see death... when America see death on its streets - they anticipate a shock that will allow them to make us capitulate early. maybe theres another reason - I just find it odd... and like they have both sides of the bet covered... no matter which way it goes we lose...

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by BornPatriot


I'm ready anytime. Hopefully the American people can come together, with the help of smaller government entities (state, local, etc), to overpower the feds constitutionally and truthfully.

It's hard to take on an organization that is more than willing to cross the line. Who knows what things will come down to? For all we know, America could be turned into a 3rd world country before anyone takes action.

reply to post by BornPatriot


Militia folks crack me up, they have no chance of doing anything to make any kind of difference in this country. The central govt is too big and has too much power and those living in a fantasy world need to wake up. It's nice to have the illusion of thinking you have the opportunity to make a difference but it will never become a reality. Same goes for those who believe we actually live in a democratic nation, sucker born every minute.

reply to post by jitombe


Do you honestly believe that?? You don't think that Militias can make a difference? Well what about the Revolutionary War, or the Civil War? Militias played very vital roles in both.

Not to mention the fact the a good number of those in our Military would do anything in their power to uphold the Constitution. I am fairly confident that if Civil war broke out in this country, there would be a pretty level playing field.

reply to post by JesterMan


Perhaps I'm wrong, but the fact that the Revolutionary and Civil wars were in very different time periods pretty much nullifies them as examples of how militias could affect a civil war today.

During these time periods, the weaponry was, technologically, much closer on both sides than what exists today. If a war were to break out tomorrow between government loyalists and rebels, the Federal Government would no doubt hold an extensive advantage in firepower.

And, while I have no doubt that many military and police personnel would turn against the government, we have no real way of knowing how many exactly would, and how much of a difference this would make.

I think that it would make a pretty big difference actually. What good are tanks and fighter jets with no one to operate them?

Memebers of the military have chosen to fight for their beliefs in the constitution and to ensure the safety of their friends and family. I don't know of anyone in the miltary that would turn their backs on their friends and family.

Also, Militias in this day and age are just as armed as the government. If you don't believe me, just start to hang around some good ole country boys. Some of the stuff I have seen is pretty amazing.


Just recenty, a guy my buddies and I used to hunt with was arrested and charged as a terrorist for some of the stuff he had. He was busted selling a couple of undercover FBI agents a few hundred automatic weapons and some other, "things that go boom".

The moral of that story is, the undercover FBI agents were posing as members of a militia. Just think about how many other people have gotten away with this. Now this guy will most certainly be going away for life, if not given the death penalty, but I am fairly certain that there are thousands of people like him all across america that are supplying militias everyday with these, and more powerfull weapons.


Just my opinion.

[edit on 11/17/2008 by JesterMan]

reply to post by JesterMan


Jester, folks just don't know what's out there. I was in North Carolina a while back, and some of those "good old boys," showed me a mounted Browning .50 that was as clean as a whistle. And the many boxes were pointed out as ammo.

Not fifteen feet from me now, I can reach a Colt AR-15, an M-14, and two .45 1911's. That's fifteen feet. Thousands of custom, handloads, and components for thousands more.

And I'm way behind a lot of others. Some of those boys take this thing real seriously.

I laugh when folks suggest our military would fight our citizenry and thus our militia. And if a couple were stupid enough to try, well, some of these boys can shoot flies off an watermelon at 125 meters. No joke. And anything under 600 meters, they own. High-end optics, and all the bells and whistles.

Naw, I'm not too worried. We always come together as a nation in times of trouble, and pull together.

That .50 cal sounds pretty sweet. Hope there is someone among them that is a skilled gunsmith. Those .50's tend to get pretty hot, and after a few dozen rounds the barrels start to droop a bit.

Ain't America Great?

Hi Jester, I honestly don't think the militia folks can make an actual difference these days. Once again, the fed govt is too big, has too much power and already keeps tabs on everyone they suspect of being a potential domestic terrorist. I'm just one of those folks who believe the NWO has firm control of the world as it is today and will continue to carry out their agenda as planned. Militia folks have the illusion that they can do something about it and those in real power want to keep it that way. It's all about mind games and the NWO is winning. You can get all the revenge you want in the afterlife - where the rules of mankind will no longer exist, no rush to get there.

Originally posted by jitombe
Once again, the fed govt is too big, has too much power and already keeps tabs on everyone they suspect of being a potential domestic terrorist.

This sentence alone, is proof to me that you have already lost. This nation was founded on ideals. It was born of faith. Faith that even the out numbered can make a difference. Freedom will always prevail, as long as there are those that hold freedom above all other things. It is this attitude of, "you can't make a difference" that has allowed this country to slowly drift into the condition it is now in.

If there is ever a need to fight for our freedom, no matter who the transgressors, believe me when I say, "A difference will be made".

Many men have died in the name of freedom, and more than likely many more will join them. It would be foolish of me to assume that a Militia could overthrow a corrupt government over night. If it is ever nescessary, it will take a long time, but in the end freedom will always win.


"It is better to die a free man, than to live as a slave."

I realize this is a late reply but the U.S. govt is not going to allow any sort of rebellion. Freedom here as in any other country in the world is just a state of mind. I'm just one out of seven billion people on this retarded planet and am glad I have the freedom to think that way. Less than one hundred people play a game with what happens to all those billions of sheeple and that pretty much sums it up for me.

Well, if we tried to field a militia to go head to head with our military - assuming such a thing would ever occur - then yes, the militia in the field would be at a distinct disadvantage.

And our military would be very reluctant to go on offensive operations. They'll defend themselves if attacked, but not so's you'd notice. After all, they were civilians a while back, and eventually will be civilians once again. We have literally millions and millions of veterans who are civilians. Generals and privates.

The thing is, we wouldn't all hat up and meet on one field.

Freedom loving men have always, and I mean always, won over those who would attempt to take that freedom. And there's no beating a man who knows he is right, and will keep coming.

Now, the only question is, what is that line that we will not allow to be crossed?

I'm sorry, but I'm pretty synical when I hear of how people are prepared to fight against their military or government.

The people have allowed the PTB to gather and create weaponry that no "resistence" movement would be able to fight against so easily.

I understand that you would fight, but people need to stop looking at the Civil War and saying "I could do that!", this won't be the same at all.

What will you do when the choppers fly over dropping nerve agent or an artificially developed disease you have no cure for?
How will you communicate when every email and phone call is tapped?
How will you find and manage water, now that it is pumped to you?

I think a lot of people don't think about warfare in the modern context, they see civil war films (maybe because this was the military conflict on American soil) and immediately relate to it.
It won't be anything like this.

Do you have a chem suit? A gas mask? Innoculations for every debilitating disease known to man?
Do you have a method of collecting and storing water and food?
And if you have a family, how do you expect to get them through this hell while you fight?

I don't think it will be anywhere near as easy as some think, and I certainly think this would be a very lengthy conflict.

It might just be easier to move along with whatever the authorities have planned, come out on the other side with the help of the international community.

well if crap hits the fan -- find a SEAL -- my next door neighbor is a retired SEAL Sniper. (No Such Billet..? yea right)
he says the helo him in about 10 - 15 clicks -- just him and his .50 cal long range sniper rifle... he is gone before they hear the shot... he says he can kill a fly at 2 miles... now thats fire power... I suggest every one concentrate of .50 cal sniper training... as he says it... if your too close - you lose..

You may have logistical problems, but others won't. In SF we were trained to make do with what was available.

Need plastic explosives? Make them.

Need IED's? Make them.

Booby trap? Make them out of junk.

Communication? You compensate by planning.

Need your own toxic gas that will drop someone instantly? Make it.

Right now there are 3,000,000 active and reserve military personnel, many of whom are support personnel. Of the remaining combat units, I would stand amazed if even 15% under any circumstance would throw down on the American people.

11 Army Divisions and a handful of regiments, and 240,000 Marines.

Right now there are 120,000,000 military age males and females.

There are more than 25,000,000 veterans in the US.

And someone is going to tell me that 450,000 are capable of running roughshod over 120,000,000 that could conceivably be led by 25,000,000 veterans?

And a civilian population armed to the teeth?

The first time our military opened up on the American people, there wouldn't be anywhere they could hide. I'm not talking about pissed-off. I'm talking about enraged!

I don't care how good a force is, they require support. No support - no fight. Think about what you're suggesting. Ever hear of the Alamo? Alesia? Carthage?

yeah it wouldn't take much doing to suck the wind out of the us army. the 1 or two key officers could relax just a hair and no one would move in their units. it would spread pretty quick. all that gung ho attitude is just follow the leader really.

plus the veterans know where to strike and how.

did you know the m1 a1 abrahms tank can be disabled by pulling the red lever on the back of the tank?

did you know a simple water hose, if wrapped around teh turret, will disable the same said tank.

did you know the only thing keeping the same tanks from being stolen is a padlock? they're easier to drive than bicycles. just need about 500 gallons of gas, hehe.

reply to post by dooper


What do you think any government would do if things collapsed to the point that civil war was on the verge of becoming a reality?

I'm sure that the following is a likely scenario...

1) They wouldn't try to fight the people, they would leave each area to fall into chaos, supporting the limited loyal forces while they could. You'd be fighting each other. Protecting yourselves from those without a plan and without any means of providing for themselves.

2) They would protect the seat of power at all cost. Forget the cities and towns, their primary objective is to save their own and guarantee continuation of government.

3) They would move government, to protect from the new "insurgents" at home and to safeguard against the risk of attack during a time of weakness from outside influences.

4) Once stable government is in effect again, they would move into areas of strategic importance to claim them back from the roaming mobs that you have become a part of. That means Oil, Infrastructure etc... And to do that they'll use whatever force they decide is required. Statements of "I gots my Gunnn!" mean nothing when you are faced with aerial bombardment, intelligence-led organizations and globally supported power.

5) It will be globally supported because the rest of the planet will have no choice. No outside nation can afford to let even a part of America fall into rogue hands (American citizens or not). They'll "ignore" any tactics against such "insurgents" used by Nato and the American Military, which by this point will see those they are fighting against as terrorists, not American citizens.

6) Each area will be reclaimed piece by piece until the entire country is operated by the American Government with NATO allies. But this government will not allow for "Civil Liberties" because they cannot afford to at this time. Every citizen would be watched and monitored, but the resistance would continue for decades.

7) This is where civil war comes into play. Far into the future and after much of the American nation has already been destroyed by the efforts of the new government to control the population.

That's how I see things happening. Obviously this is just an estimation, but using common sense tells me that "Civil War" between the American people and the government is far, far into the future. You'd have to deal with a long lasting period of internal chaos between civilians before the military would try to step in.
And when they do (earlier to secure bases and resources) they'll use whatever they have to quickly and easily destroy resistance.

I'm afraid that all of you expecting to fight your military with your trusty gun are fooling yourselves. For a few years you'll be merely trying to survive and fight against your equals, and then when you eventually do find the military patrolling your street, you'll either be extremely happy to see them or be powerless in the face of such weaponry.

reply to post by detachedindividual


WOw, that was a good post.

The country is so big now and will be almost at 500 million by 2080, the people could do whatever they wanted, if something did break out the government would $hit on the constitution and take away gun rights for the people. WHICH IS THE WORST THING EVER, WE SHOULD HAVE A RIGHT TO DEFEND OURSELVES.

We all know the government is wrong, we just need to stand up and change things, get our own hands back in the earths dirt and say f^ck these other countries lets look after ourselves, RIGHT NOW! Lets start growing our own $hit, making our own $hit, rely on ourselves before we rely on others.

WAR IS PEACE

FREEDOM IS SLAVERY

[edit on 3-12-2008 by unknown known]

reply to post by detachedindividual

In the first place, no one will be fighting our military if things get crossways. Our military don't just fall out of a chicken's butt. They are men who have families and will be wanting to protect those families just like the rest of us.

The problem with your scenario is in assuming that the "seat of power" will be protected at all costs. You ever drove around Washington, DC? You think New Orleans was a disaster? You've seen nothing yet. The "seat of power" will not be protected at all costs!

Consider some catastrophic event occurs. One that incites anarchy. You'll see neighbors gather for mutual defense. Neighborhoods, then communities. And it will be a bad day to be a badass or lawbreaker. Then counties, then states. Just like this country was founded. Small areas are secured first, then larger areas, then states. We would go back to law and order by states!

The Washington "seat of power" is nothing. It produces nothing. It generates nothing. It creates nothing! It derives its revenue, it's power, it's authority from the states. And if things go bad, I don't see the states giving them the same, all-inclusive power ever again.

NATO won't be coming to the US. There won't be the spread of organized power who incrementally takes power back.

And those you like to criticize who are armed? They help bring the peace. It won't be the cops, it won't be the military, it certainly won't be NATO.

It will be citizens who take back their neighborhoods, communities, and states. And they're not going to be real enthusiastic in supporting another life-sucking, highly controlling, central government.

We'll hit the reset button and get it back like it was intended.

States rule, and the Federal Government will only be responsible for establishing a money system, providing for the common defense, and providing for the general welfare - not welfare in general.

Long live the Constitution of the United States!

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by detachedindividual

 

In the first place, no one will be fighting our military if things get crossways. Our military don't just fall out of a chicken's butt. They are men who have families and will be wanting to protect those families just like the rest of us.

Read my post again.
A soldier born and raised in Wyoming will have no problem shooting an armed gunman in New York.
Soldiers are paid to do as they are told, if they are told "shoot the terrorist!" they will regardless of whether that terrorist is American or not.
Being an "insurgent", "enemy combatant" or resistance fighter makes you one thing when you are fighting against the power of your government, it makes you a "terrorist".

Soldiers are always concerned for their family, while they serve in Afghanistan or Iraq do you think that their concern is any less? They are still there to do a job, and the majority will continue to do that job whether they are deployed in Iran or America.

Originally posted by dooper
The problem with your scenario is in assuming that the "seat of power" will be protected at all costs. You ever drove around Washington, DC? You think New Orleans was a disaster? You've seen nothing yet. The "seat of power" will not be protected at all costs!

Of course it will.
I can't quite believe you are even arguing this statement.
FEMA has in place the system to run a parallel government, and to operate the replacement government should the current one be incapacitated.
Washington is not the sole location of the US Government, there are back-up systems in place, secondary locations and sites managed throughout the year in case of Nuclear strike, natural catastrophe or civil war.
The US government will continue. There is little that they wouldn't have prepared for or could not survive through.
And Civil Unrest leading to warfare on home turf would be within the top five probabilities on that list.

Originally posted by dooper
Consider some catastrophic event occurs. One that incites anarchy. You'll see neighbors gather for mutual defense. Neighborhoods, then communities. And it will be a bad day to be a badass or lawbreaker. Then counties, then states. Just like this country was founded. Small areas are secured first, then larger areas, then states. We would go back to law and order by states!

I wish I had such faith in Humanity.
But maybe you are right in this assumption. If that were the case, what do said groups of people have to defend themselves against?
Look at every event in the last decade where people were given free reign to act as they wish, and you have riots, looting, murder. I don't know how this happens, but in every location where a catastrophic event happens in the West, it results in rioting and looting.
Sure a few will take the path you've suggested, but most will try to run, and many will join the chaos for the chance to get their hands on a bigger TV.

Originally posted by dooper
The Washington "seat of power" is nothing. It produces nothing. It generates nothing. It creates nothing! It derives its revenue, it's power, it's authority from the states. And if things go bad, I don't see the states giving them the same, all-inclusive power ever again.

I'm sorry but you are wrong. And you have contradicted yourself in saying that Washington has no power, and then that the states have given all power over the people to Washington.
And in a Martial Law scenario, these powers and their influence only increases.
It would allow FEMA to act across the United States in any way they wish under the doctrine of securing order.

You may be right in states not allowing the government all inclusive powers in the future, but this is after the initial chaos. And assuming that each state still exists as it does today...

Originally posted by dooper
It will be citizens who take back their neighborhoods, communities, and states. And they're not going to be real enthusiastic in supporting another life-sucking, highly controlling, central government.

I hope so, but this will be a long time in the future. This will be after the civil unrest, the riots and looting, the movement of government in self defense, the involvement of allies to secure calm, the creation of the "resistance", the long lasting civil war between the military and said resistance.

I'm afraid this will not be as simple as "government steps out of line, people take down government with guns".
It's a very simplistic way of looking at it, and I don't think people should be under any impression that this battle would be as straightforward as some are suggesting.