Ali ibn Abi-Talib end time prophecy - SUFI

This is an alleged Ali ibn Abi-Talib end time prophecy
He doesn’t say that the person is the Anti-Christ or evil.
Just a sign of the end times.

Ali ibn Abi-Talib is highly regarded by Sufism. From what I understand, that’s a very mystical and prophetic branch of Islam. I don’t know if ‘branch’ is the right word. But that’s the best of my understanding.

ALLEGEDLY this is a prophecy from Ali ibn Abi-Talib. Apparently he did make prophecies and was considered to be a person of very high spiritual standing in Islam and Sufism. (If there are any Islamics on ATS – please let us know if you know about the situation with this prophecy and any others he made)

Ali ibn Abi-Talib prophecy quoteand Amir Taheri explaining it -

According to the tradition, Imam Ali Ibn Abi-Talib (the prophet's cousin and son-in-law) prophesied that at the End of Times and just before the return of the Mahdi, the Ultimate Saviour, a "tall black man will assume the reins of government in the West." Commanding "the strongest army on earth," the new ruler in the West will carry "a clear sign" from the third imam, whose name was Hussein Ibn Ali. The tradition concludes: "Shiites should have no doubt that he is with us."

In a curious coincidence Obama's first and second names--Barack Hussein--mean "the blessing of Hussein" in Arabic and Persian. His family name, Obama, written in the Persian alphabet, reads O Ba Ma, which means "he is with us," the magic formula in Majlisi's tradition.

Author Amir Taheri discusses more of this

Muslim site? Info on Ali ibn Abi-Talib

Info on Ali Ibn Abi-Talib

the short version - info on Ali ibn Abi-Talib

edited immediately to fix quote

[edit on 11/17/2008 by FlyersFan]

I usually ignore things like this to do with Barack Obama, because I think it's just silly, usually just some people trying to stir up things because they don't like him.

But I must admit this sound interesting, I'll research to see how much truth this has.

Thanks a lot.

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
I usually ignore things like this to do with Barack Obama,

The link to Obama is the authors conclusion. It could mean someone else entirely. Or it could also be a fake quote that is out and about. I don't have any SUFI texts in the house so I can't comment on the authenticity. That's why I put it out in the hopes that someone will have a knowledge of Sufism and can let us know about this, and any other prophecies by Ali ibn Abi-Talib.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
I usually ignore things like this to do with Barack Obama,

The link to Obama is the authors conclusion. It could mean someone else entirely. Or it could also be a fake quote that is out and about. I don't have any SUFI texts in the house so I can't comment on the authenticity. That's why I put it out in the hopes that someone will have a knowledge of Sufism and can let us know about this, and any other prophecies by Ali ibn Abi-Talib.

Yeah I was just looking for any proof of this verse.

It seems it comes from a book called Bihar al-Anwar, it's a collection of hadiths(stories) and knowledge someone collected and put into a book in the 17th century. I think many muslims do not trust it very much. But it may hold some truths.
en.wikipedia.org...

I think the problem is this book has not been translated into english, so what we need is someone to confirm if this verse is in this book from the 17th century. But it does not say where it is in the books, there are 110 volumes! lol, that's a problem.

Interesting.






[edit on 17-11-2008 by _Phoenix_]

Muslims believe Muhammad is the final prophet of the Abrahmic God, meaning there are no more prophets after him. He is known as the "Seal of the prophets." The term "Imam" does not mean "prophet" but rather a Masjid's (church's) "leader." It's usage is equivalent to being known as a "priest."

Commanding "the strongest army on earth," the new ruler in the West will carry "a clear sign" from the third imam, whose name was Hussein Ibn Ali. The tradition concludes: "Shiites should have no doubt that he is with us."

In a curious coincidence Obama's first and second names--Barack Hussein--mean "the blessing of Hussein"

I believe this is the part that is confusing you: "[...] the new ruler in the West will carry "a clear sign" from the third imam, whose name was Hussein Ibn Ali."

First, Ibn is not a name. It means "son of" in Arabic. Example of this is if a male is named Hassan, and his father is named "Ali" the son's title will be "Ali ibn Hassan." Many times, to trace lineage, the entire son's title will include the names of grandfathers, great grandfathers, and so on.

Example: "Hassan ibn Ali ibn Shareef ibn Talib ibn Harun." Which means "Hassan (son of) Ali (son of) Shareef (son of) Talib (son of) Harun."

So in that quote that mentions the title "Hussein Ibn Ali," it means "Hussein son of Ali."

Next point I will make is that it's not saying that the "new ruler" is named "Hussein Ibn Ali." It's saying that the new ruler will carry a clear sign from the third Imam named "Hussein Ibn Ali." Who is the third Imam? It's the same person being discussed in the article - Ali ibn Abi Talib. His full title is Hussain ibn Ali ibn Abi Talib, meaning "Hussain son of Ali son of Abi the teacher."

Since Ali is the son-in-law of Muhammad, "Hussein ibn Ali," signifies that it is Ali's son that is the third imam that the article discusses, not Obama.

Next, "Barack Hussein's" name is quoted in the article as meaning "The blessing of Hussein," which is misleading. Barack means "Blessed" and Hussein means "handsome." When used in that order it means "Blessed Handsome."

(P.S. It's "Muslims" not Islamics )

[edit on 17-11-2008 by DJMessiah]

The main source of prophecy in Islam is Muhammad (P.B.U.H.-peace be upon him). The reliable hadiths on the end of time are well-known among all branches of Islam. As far as I aware there is no prophecies on black leader in West. Instead it Prophet mentioned that Islam would rise on West. There is a principle in Islam: If any "prophecy" is contrary to ones by the Prophet or to the common sense it is regarded as False. This "prophecy" looks very suspisious!

reply to post by FlyersFan


There is no such things as a Islamics; learn a little about a religion before commenting on it followers of Islam are called Muslims.

Originally posted by kvaniu
There is no such things as a Islamics; learn a little about a religion before commenting on it followers of Islam are called Muslims.

:shk: Get a grip. No where did I comment on the religion.

I said I didnt' know about it and was asking a question.

Originally posted by DJMessiah
Since Ali is the son-in-law of Muhammad, "Hussein ibn Ali," signifies that it is Ali's son that is the third imam that the article discusses, not Obama.

If I'm following you - the author of the article is transposing this prophecy to 2008 - when in fact it was made for closer to the year 700 or so?

Like Revelation in the bible? Some say the 666 (or 616) figure is an antichrist that is to show up now, and others say that figure was really NERO back in the time of the 'prophecy'?

Like that?

I don't know anything about the Sufis, but would love to learn.
Do you know if there are any books translated into English?

reply to post by FlyersFan



If you want to learn a little about Sufism you could look for author Idris Shah. I read some of his work years ago and he gives what seemed to me to be a good overview. His books are in English.

This is just a couple, there are more..

The Sufis by Idris Shah

The Way of the Sufi

The quotes of Muhammad's lineage, even though they sound like prophecies are not prophecies because his descendants are not prophets.

If it's a prophesy, then it is not Islamic in nature, because to make a prophecy, one has to be a prophet and Muslims do not believe in the authenticity of any prophets after Muhammad.

The prophets that came before Muhammad: Adam, Noah, Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Ismail, Joseph, Jesus, Jonas, etc., are all prophets of Islam, and these are prophecies we will also believe in, along with Muhammad's.

You're asking if this "prophecy" relates to the 7th century. First, one has to establish that the source is correctly cited - Ali's son, and next one has to establish if it were translated correctly.

Then you would have to see any other verses before and after his quote, to know in detail if he were referring to a specific person living in the time period, or if it were someone who has yet to exist.

Muslims do not use the same years that we use in the US to categorize dates. For example, we in the US use the year 2008 CE to signify this year, because the year 0 is made to correlate to the birth of Jesus. But in the Middle East, the current year is 1429, because the year 0 signifies Muhammad's pilgrimage to Medina.

From what I read in the article, the author wants to make it seem like Obama is the imam prophesiesed, which is far from what Suffis will believe.

There is not enough information in the article to know exactly who the verses are referring to, and which chapters he referenced. It could very well be that he combined verses from different chapters to make multiple individuals seem like one person.

To shorten it up, Sufism is one of the three largest branches of Islam, where Sufis put more emphasis in enlightenment of the mind through meditation and spiritual aspiration. It's commonly misrepresented as the "Magical" sect of Islam, when there is nothing magic in nature about the practices. Sufis see the path to God as a scientific one, that can be attained by enlightening one's soul and bringing it closer to God by combining science, the metaphysical, and religion into one. They are trying to obtain what Christians know as "sainthood."

Some good books to read regarding Sufis is "Mystical Dimensions of Islam" by Annemarie Schimmel. "Sufism: Love and Wisdom" by Jean-Louis Michon. And "The Shambhala Guide to Sufism" by Carl W. Phd Ernst.

One regarding female saints in Islam is "Women of Sufism: A Hidden Treasure" by Camille Adams Helminsk.

There are non-religious works from Sufis as well, which have been world renown for some time, such as from the 13th century poet named Rumi.

His poems can be found www.khamush.com.

[edit on 17-11-2008 by DJMessiah]

Best way to verify a prophecy? Use your nose.
Smell that two-week old mackerel?

FlyersFan - I'd say your underlying instinct was correct, the instinct that made you use the word 'allegedly'..

reply to post by FlyersFan


The Prophecy does not refer to Obama as the Ultimate Savior, but rather it was referring to the Mahdi and the timeline of his appearance. The relation of Obama to the prophecy is that it means that the Mahdi is about to make an appearance.

The Mahdi is one of the greatest portents of God and this is all tied up with Mary and her son Jesus.

Peace!









[edit on 2-1-2009 by queenofangels_17]

You are all wrong.
Muhammed was no prophet but a false prophet that spead a message of hate after he was rejected by the people of the book as just that. The prophets mentioned beforehand by someone else were Hebrew prophets from the blood line of Abraham. All of them, all the way up to Jesus who was the coming Messiah the previous prophets spoke of.
He was God in flesh, the image of the invisable God, come to earth to live as an example to us, and be led to the slaughter as a perfect spotless lamb to take the punishment for a chosen people upon himself. He spoke of the Holy Spirit coming to his believers and followers after he was gone, and not about muhammed coming. This also is false. As indeed the Holy Spirit did come upon the day of pentecost.
All prophets are of the bloodline of Abraham thru the decendents of the promises. This means Issac and his heirs are heirs of the promise and Ishmael(isaac's brother born out of the promise to a slave) and his decendents are not, and thus Muhammad cannot and was not a prophet.
You know darn well that Muhammad said to his wife he did not know if what he had seen pressed upon him was a angel or demon, but was convince of the latter. His wife pushed it upon him to believe it an angel of God and to go ahead with his demands.
Islamic tradition such as the hadith's teach the mahdi to returns from the well in Iran from which he went into as a child and also Jesus at the same time is to come back from heaven. JEsus will arrive and show submission to the mahdi by praying behind him, and leading a campaign to rid the world of christianity and jews. Thus establishing an Islamic Caliphate.(empire) all over the world.
But this mahdi will turn out to be the antichrist and this Jesus(Isa) in the qur'an is the false prophet in the bible.
The Real Jesus will return after these false saviors are given 3 1/2 years to rule and conquer the globe, having forcing the world into submission and worship of Allah(Satan, DRagan).
Jesus will return, being revealed from HEaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels, send his angels with the blast of a trumpet and gather his elect from the four corners of the world. and then he will pour out the wrath of God on the whole world and destroy the armies of the world gathered together at armaddon to battle against him.
Then he will establish HIs perfect Kingdom ....AMen