What Chemtrails REALLY Are

I found a website that alot of you might have seen already or known about this theory. But learning about chemtrails is new to me. So, I came across this website about a month ago but figured I would post it now. Ive included the address. Let me know if this is old news or not.

www.cleanskiesalliance.com...

[edit on 14-11-2008 by DroolsAlot]

reply to post by DroolsAlot


Those are the ravings of someone who doesn't understand what contrails are, and is allowing their paranoia to taint any otherwise-rational response to figuring it out.

In short: he's making it up. No evidence. No support. Just guesswork in the face of actual evidence.

As someone with a master's degree in meteorology, I find this whole chemtrail thing very laughable.

The atmosphere is an extremely intricate and complex creature, it's not just a bunch of empty space above you. There is literally so much going on in the atmosphere it's quite amazing. Even with the technology we have today, there's still much we don't know about our very own atmosphere.

Professional meteorologists even only have a goal of forecasting the weather correctly 80% of the time. If they can get it right that much, they are extremely skilled.

Just because one plane leaves a contrail, and another doesn't, doesn't mean it's a chemtrail. There's millions upon millions of factors to consider.


If anyone here honestly thinks they know their stuff about chemtrails, then I challenge you to a duel. I can answer and debunk just about anything you throw at me about chemtrails, so fire away. I don't expect you to understand my scientific explanations for phenomena in the atmosphere, so I'll try to word it in simple terms.

Originally posted by Meteorologist

The atmosphere is an extremely intricate and complex creature, it's not just a bunch of empty space above you. There is literally so much going on in the atmosphere it's quite amazing. Even with the technology we have today, there's still much we don't know about our very own atmosphere.

Professional meteorologists even only have a goal of forecasting the weather correctly 80% of the time. If they can get it right that much, they are extremely skilled.

Just because one plane leaves a contrail, and another doesn't, doesn't mean it's a chemtrail. There's millions upon millions of factors to consider.

I am very interested in the chemtrail phenomenon, I use the word chemtrail to describe the lingering expanding trails that grid up my skies some days.

I quoted you here, because it sounds like although you claim to be able to debunk chemtrails, you are admitting that meteorology is FAR from an exact science. If millions of factors can effect a chemtrail/contrail, how can you be sure your explanation is the correct one?

No disrespect intended, I do look forward to your posts in these threads.

Originally posted by hotbakedtater

I am very interested in the chemtrail phenomenon, I use the word chemtrail to describe the lingering expanding trails that grid up my skies some days.

I quoted you here, because it sounds like although you claim to be able to debunk chemtrails, you are admitting that meteorology is FAR from an exact science. If millions of factors can effect a chemtrail/contrail, how can you be sure your explanation is the correct one?

No disrespect intended, I do look forward to your posts in these threads.

Well, yes while there's lots we don't know about our own atmosphere, there is lots we do know for certain, and pretty much all of this chemtrail nonsense can be easily explained by what we do know about the atmosphere.

Some of the popular things I hear about chemtrails are:

- Sun halos are caused by chemtrails. No, they are not, they are simply caused by cirro-stratus clouds and are quite natural. Sun halos have been around since before recorded history.

- Chemtrails can be proven because some jets don't leave the trails and others do. No, this is simply because the air is different everywhere. Air parcels (think air pockets) can be large or small, and can have different humidity (saturation), temps, wind directions, molecules, etc. Furthermore at different levels of the atmosphere the temps will generally vary (air parcels aside), and being higher up does not mean it is always colder.

- Breaks in the trails prove that it's something being sprayed, and stopped. Uhh no, again it's just a different air parcel that the jet has entered, and that particular air parcel does not have good conditions for contrails to form. Think of an air parcel as if you are in a swimming pool and someone pees in it, and that one certain spot is warmer than the rest of the pool. Our air is no different, and thank goodness or the entire earth would be one temperature! That would be boring.

- Chemicals can be found in samples of these chemtrails that even you can find by conducting samples in your own backyard. Uhh, no. Now this one is funny, how exactly are you getting thousands of feet into the air to take samples of these chemtrails? All of these experiments involve some sort of collection device in your backyard. What makes you think that the chemicals collecting in your little test are from contrails? Just because there's contrails in the sky? That's a pretty huge leap. I guess you could also say that the sky is blue because you just painted your house blue.

- Chemtrails branch out and form into clouds while contrails don't. Uhh, no. Contrail is a shortened form of Condensation Trail. What are clouds? Giant packets of condensation (water) floating in the air. Of course contrails are going to turn into clouds. Clouds form many, many ways. Do you even know how clouds form? I bet you didn't know that some clouds can form simply by warm humid wind blowing over the windward side of a mountain when it comes in contact with cool dry air at the top of the mountain and rolls over to the leeward side. Clouds can also form when sunlight (solar radiation) warms the earth, evaporating the water which rises (thermals) and eventually condenses as it reaches a certain height to form a cloud. This are called convective clouds. There are SO many ways clouds can form, and yes contrails can turn into clouds. Well actually they ARE clouds, but it takes a while for the air currents in the atmosphere to spread them out.

And another fine point to add is, there isn't even a practical need for this conspiracy in the first place.


The government IS spraying chemicals into the air, admittedly and publicly, in the southwestern states, in order to fight the droughts there. It's called cloud seeding and it's weather modification. People in some southwestern states are very familiar with this because it was one of the hot voting issues in the last elections there, with some people against the spraying and some for it.

reply to post by Meteorologist

You do bring up a good point. I take a lot of pictures of chemtrails in my sky, I find it very interesting. But I admit I dont know what they are. I have thought that there is a connection between what I call big grid days(X marks the spot) then a few days later, it rains! I have observed grids being laid, why do planes have to fly in and leave grid patterns, now this is my question.

reply to post by hotbakedtater


Just think about why they would fly in grid patterns - to separate the aircraft to make sure they don't collide. The air traffic control system in the states is rather archaic, and they space planes out in every axis to make sure no-one dies. Routes from one airport to another will result in planes flying parallel routes.

"Chemtrails" are just condensation caused when the hot gasses from the back of a plane (the result of the combustion of the fuel - simple exhaust) comes into contact with the cold air, causing it to condense rapidly, forming long clouds that trace the movement of the plane through air conducive to cause condensation.

There are perfectly normal, mundane explanations for every claim of chemtrail activity. Every claim. There is absolutely no reason to believe chemtrails exist. None.

reply to post by hotbakedtater


Tater, I'm not a pilot so I can't answer why planes fly the routes they do. I assume it's simply because there's no yellow line up there guiding them all in the same path, like we have on our roads down here on the ground.


Now what I can answer. Contrails are condensation in the air. Condensation is simply water vapor that gets released from the air when warm air comes into contact with cool air.




This is the basic water cooling/warming process:

Ice -> Liquid (Melting) -> Vapor (Evaporation)
Vapor-> Liquid (Condensation) -> Ice (Freezing)


Clouds, and Contrails, are what happens when the water vapor in the air (which you can't see, but you can feel, we call this "humidity") condenses. This happens when warm air meets cool air.

This is the same thing as dew on the ground or your car's windshield in the morning. It's condensation, and is because of temperature changes.


Now when a Plane is flying through the air, it's engine produce a very warm exhaust. Now, as I said earlier, all the air in the atmosphere is not the same, there are many many different air parcels (pockets) that vary in both temperature, saturation (humidity) and other variables.

Now when that plane flying through the air is in a warm air parcel, the warm air from the plane + warm air outside is not going to create condensation, or contrails/clouds. So the plane will leave no contrails. But if that plane is flying through a cold air parcel, that plane's warm exhaust will meet the cold air, and condensation will form (contrails).

Now, see it's temperature mostly that effects if a contrail will form or not.

Now, what effects if that contrail will stick, and form into a cloud, or if it will vanish a few minutes later? The saturation of the air parcel, not the temperature. Remember, saturation = humidity of the air, wetness, moisture, call it what you will. If the particular air parcel that the jet is flying through is already very saturated, the contrail will stick, and the winds in the atmosphere will blow it into a cloud form. However if the air parcel that the jet is flying through is not very saturated, the contrail will not stick and it will just vanish a few moments later.


On the subject of Air Parcels, they can be any size. When you fart and warm air comes out, that could almost be considered an air parcel. An air parcel can also be hundreds of miles in size.

Since we are on the subject of size, I'll through some bonus education out there for you since I like you tater.

In meteorology, we classify size and duration on a set of scales:

Micro Scale (Small Size, Short Duration)
Meso Scale (Medium size, Medium Duration)
Synoptic Scale (Large Size, Long Duration)



On those scales, these are the sizes and examples:
Micro Scale - Less than 2km in horizontal extent. Like a small gust, eddie, turbulance, etc.
Meso Scale - 2 to 200km in horizontal extent. Such as winds, tornados, thunderstorms, etc.
Synoptic Scale - 200km in horizontal extent or greater. Such as high and low pressure areas on a weather map (those H and L's you see on The Weather Channel's forecast, spanning across the entire country.)



Any way, so if you were to fart, that would be like a microscale-size air parcel. The air parcels that jets fly through are either Meso scale or Synoptic scale in size.

There is also global scale, which is things that cover the entire earth, but we won't get into that.







Any way, hope this helped and hope you learned something. Educating is what I like to do.






[edit on 14-11-2008 by Meteorologist]

They give us multiple answers as to why it's happening, like they're saying pick one to help you sleep better at night.

There's defiantly something fishy about them.

reply to post by Shawn B.


Nope. Contrails are well understood and explain everything perfectly well. There is no reason to think "chemtrails" even exist. It's the fruit of an overactive, somewhat paranoid, imagination. Nothing else.

reply to post by dave420


BARIUM is up there. That has been confirmed. Don't tell me that barium is a normal component of our atmosphere.

Originally posted by dave420
reply to post by Shawn B.

 

Nope. Contrails are well understood and explain everything perfectly well. There is no reason to think "chemtrails" even exist. It's the fruit of an overactive, somewhat paranoid, imagination. Nothing else.

Exactly.


And the government does actually do chemical spraying in the air, weather modification in the southwestern states, called cloud seeding to help fight the droughts there.

And the stuff that gets sprayed looks nothing at all like chemtrails, both in size, color, volume, shape, and mass.

Hmm, but chemtrails do look exactly like contrails. Surely they aren't the same thing.

reply to post by Meteorologist


I got this word forming in my mind about you,
Disinfo I think it is .
A/C In the same area of sky at the same time some form contrails which disperse quickly, others form chemtrails and pattern out as grids. DNA spirals
then gradualy develop as a sheet of cover.
What for who knows, could be a message, might be a virus, might be conceiling covert operations, the Morgellons theory a possibility.
Natural phenomenam No, air pockets ha ha ha .
Keep the disinfo operations on .
Someday you will get the message.
Come back in Agent Meteorologist your work is done.

reply to post by headlightone


^ Can anyone translate that for me?

reply to post by Meteorologist


Yes. I'll have a go:

"I don't understand the natural phenomena in play in the atmosphere, and for some irrational reason, I'm going to ignore the accurate, rational explanations, and just go with my gut and say it's something there's no evidence for. Oh, and I'll just call people who know more than me 'disinfo' agents, which allows me to ignore their objectivity, and continue to bask in my delusions"

I think I got it.

[edit on 14/11/08 by dave420]

Originally posted by Meteorologist
reply to post by headlightone

 

^ Can anyone translate that for me?

My go at it was gonna be...

When all else fails, I'll call you a disinformation secret agent man. Cause well, if it involves logic, we are forced to ignore. Otherwise our paranoid delusions will be debunked.. then what? Boredom sets in.

I move for the mods to ask meteorologist to take his posts and start a thread debunking chemtrails. Unless of course we get actual responses to the points... Rather than, your a disinfo agent.

reply to post by bknapple32


Funny, it appears wikipedia on the very topic of chemtrails actually predicted the future, predicted that guy's behavior:

en.wikipedia.org...

"If you try to pin these people down and refute things, it's, 'Well, you're just part of the conspiracy'", he said. [1]

reply to post by Meteorologist


At this point I wouldnt even call it predicting. Its the same ole same ole from these types . When all else fails, you're apart of it.

[edit on 14-11-2008 by bknapple32]