Question about "Us"

I was just reading through the Old Testament yesterday and was skimming through the Book of Ezekiel. I reach the Tower of Babel and found something that just didnt sound right.

5 But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower that the men were building. 6 The LORD said, "If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other."

The lord says, "let us" go down...

Who is this referring to if there is only one God? If you are a religious person and define yourself as a Christian then you would say this is the Holy Trinity, is there any other explanation as to what this is referring to?

[edit on 30/10/08 by serbsta]

could be the royal "us", like the royal "wee", it is much misunderstood.

i think you've answered your own question, but it could be a mis-translation or maybe he we talking to angels or there could be more than one god. the thing i want to know is how anyone knew what god was saying in heaven.

Originally posted by pieman
could be the royal "us", like the royal "wee", it is much misunderstood.

i think you've answered your own question, but it could be a mis-translation or maybe he we talking to angels or there could be more than one god. the thing i want to know is how anyone knew what god was saying in heaven.

I think thats a completely different discussion altogether, but thanks for replying . What i really want to know is are there any other ideas as to what this is referring to, doesnt have to be in any religious sense.

Actually no, it's not a mistranslation. The hebrew word for God is elohim, which is plural. In other verses where the same hebrew word is used, it is translated as gods. So in essence, one of the gods said, "Come, let us go down..."

[edit on 30-10-2008 by Deaf Alien]

Originally posted by serbsta
I think thats a completely different discussion altogether, but thanks for replying .

What i really want to know is are there any other ideas as to what this is referring to, doesnt have to be in any religious sense.

shoot, i thought i offered three, lets see if i can guess which answer you want, God's an alien?

reply to post by pieman


Yep, you got it. The God in the bible is a group of extraterrestrials. Christians can deny all they want to, but it's plain to see right there in the bible.

Originally posted by Deaf Alien
Actually no, it's not a mistranslation. The hebrew word for God is elohim, which is plural. In other verses where the same hebrew word is used, it is translated as gods. So in essence, one of the gods said, "Come, let us go down..."

[edit on 30-10-2008 by Deaf Alien]

I see, so the Hebrews believed in more than one God? Im really new to the this field of study but im trying to get started with some research. Would you care to elaborate on what you just said?

reply to post by serbsta

In some cases (e.g. Exodus 3:4, "... Elohim called unto him out of the midst of the bush ..."), it acts as a singular noun in Hebrew grammar (see next section), and is then generally understood to denote the single God of Israel. In other cases, Elohim acts as an ordinary plural of the word Eloah (אלוה), and refers to the polytheistic notion of multiple gods (for example, Exodus 20:3, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me."

en.wikipedia.org...

Notice how it says that it is generally understood to denote the single God of Israel? It still conflicts with what you just discovered. How can a singular God say to himself, "Come, let us come down"?

kay!!!
the hebrews clearly believed in more than one god at some point, they hardly just came up with the concept of a monotheistic god randomly. monotheism is pretty rare in the ancient world, to imagine the bible is not going to refer to a group of gods at any point is as silly as saying that......well god was a bunch of aliens.

if thats your bint then have at it, but it doesn't make it any more likely that you are correct than if you were to say god created the universe in seven days 'cos thats what the bible says happened.

EDIT:just to be helpful, the screaming example that they worshiped other gods would be when moses came down the mountain to see the hebrews worshiping a golden bull.





[edit on 30/10/08 by pieman]

Originally posted by Deaf Alien
reply to post by serbsta

 

In some cases (e.g. Exodus 3:4, "... Elohim called unto him out of the midst of the bush ..."), it acts as a singular noun in Hebrew grammar (see next section), and is then generally understood to denote the single God of Israel. In other cases, Elohim acts as an ordinary plural of the word Eloah (אלוה), and refers to the polytheistic notion of multiple gods (for example, Exodus 20:3, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me."

en.wikipedia.org...

Notice how it says that it is generally understood to denote the single God of Israel? It still conflicts with what you just discovered. How can a singular God say to himself, "Come, let us come down"?

I see what you mean, basically in some cases its used as singular while in others its used to describe a polytheistic belief. So what do you think about this specific verse in the bible?

Also Genesis 1:26

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Originally posted by Deaf Alien
Actually no, it's not a mistranslation. The hebrew word for God is elohim, which is plural. In other verses where the same hebrew word is used, it is translated as gods. So in essence, one of the gods said, "Come, let us go down..."

[edit on 30-10-2008 by Deaf Alien]

The word Elohim is actually a uni-plural, it can refer to one or many, just like a last name. That is why it is sometimes translated as Gods, other times God, it depends on the context it is used in. Also the word used here is not Elohim, it is Yahweh. Anytime you see the word GOD or LORD in capitals it is translated from the word Yahweh.

To answer the OP, my guess he is talking to the Angels, and to clarify, the book you are referring to is Genesis chapter 11, not Ezekiel.

Originally posted by Deaf Alien
Also Genesis 1:26

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Wow, guess its more prominent than i thought, thanks for pointing that out, i guess i just kind of ignored that since ive read it a few times.

Originally posted by doctorex

Originally posted by Deaf Alien
Actually no, it's not a mistranslation. The hebrew word for God is elohim, which is plural. In other verses where the same hebrew word is used, it is translated as gods. So in essence, one of the gods said, "Come, let us go down..."

[edit on 30-10-2008 by Deaf Alien]

The word Elohim is actually a uni-plural, it can refer to one or many, just like a last name. That is why it is sometimes translated as Gods, other times God, it depends on the context it is used in. Also the word used here is not Elohim, it is Yahweh. Anytime you see the word GOD or LORD in capitals it is translated from the word Yahweh.

To answer the OP, my guess he is talking to the Angels, and to clarify, the book you are referring to is Genesis chapter 11, not Ezekiel.

Thanks for the clear up, that really makes a lot more sense now. Also you are right about Genesis, my mistake.

reply to post by doctorex


It makes more sense to use the word Eloh to refer to a singular god. Christians have been trying to explain it away by saying that it refers to the Trinity.

Originally posted by Deaf Alien
reply to post by doctorex

 

It makes more sense to use the word Eloh to refer to a singular god. Christians have been trying to explain it away by saying that it refers to the Trinity.

Thats a good question, why didnt they simply use the word Eloh then? Im guessing Christians use the excuse of the Trinity for all of these confusions in poly/monotheistic translations?

reply to post by doctorex

Also the word used here is not Elohim, it is Yahweh. Anytime you see the word GOD or LORD in capitals it is translated from the word Yahweh.

Yes, you are right. Yet, in reference to Genesis 1:26, it implies that God is plural as in a group of gods.

Christians cannot escape this. So many have tried to explain it away as the Trinity, yet the Trinity IS NOT biblical.

your a funny guy DA, you reply to explanations that haven't been offered but ignore a logical explanation that's offered.

is it because you have a script or is it because you want an argument with a christian? don't get it.

Originally posted by Deaf Alien
reply to post by doctorex

 

Also the word used here is not Elohim, it is Yahweh. Anytime you see the word GOD or LORD in capitals it is translated from the word Yahweh.

Yes, you are right. Yet, in reference to Genesis 1:26, it implies that God is plural as in a group of gods.

Christians cannot escape this. So many have tried to explain it away as the Trinity, yet the Trinity IS NOT biblical.

the Trinity IS NOT biblical

What do you mean by this? I havent finished reading the Bible completely yet though.

reply to post by pieman

if thats your bint then have at it, but it doesn't make it any more likely that you are correct than if you were to say god created the universe in seven days 'cos thats what the bible says happened.

There's plenty of evidence that gods in not only the bible, but also in many other scriptures are actually extraterrestrials. Plenty of threads on this on ATS and many books cover this also.

Which makes more sense, that gods were extraterrestrials or that God created the universe in seven days? The creation story was borrowed from Enuma Elish.