Class in Posting

This morning, I came across a thread that struck me as weird, but, interesting. It was a thread on how that maybe trees have a bit more cognizance that we give them credit for. I can dig that, so, I read on. It was definately weird. The post was badly written and the content was disjointed and almost rambling. (never seen THAT on ATS! )

But, it happens all the time on ATS. Usually, some good replies and thought-provoking questions clear up the confusion created with the Opening post and some intellegent content may just surface and become a great thread.

Or...

Posters will take the thread and make it garbage. They will go nuts with off-topic or degrading posts. Driving the original topic into obscurity by enticing other like-minded members with the go-ahead for more distraction.
I am going to try very hard not to react like I did this morning. With anger. I went off on a couple of posters who felt the thread was theirs for the mocking. I was wrong by doing that because I pulled the thread even more off-topic by doing so and I'm kicking myself for it now. That's why I'm starting this thread.

50% Apology.
50% Anger.

I come to ATS to learn. Everyday is a learning experience at ATS. Very much like any school, the bullies and class clowns are disruptive, but, concentrating and focussing can tune them out. I, in my years at ATS, have almost succeeded at always tuning them out. But, the new members usually have NO idea what they've gotten themselves into when registering. Many find ATS and think "THIS is where people might have answers!" and register and make that opening post only to find that they are mocked and called drug addicts and that they should be institutioinalized.
It's wrong of us to do that. It's counter-productive of us to do that. It's also against the Terms and Conditions to do that.
A long time ago, Springer wrote something that made a LOT of sense. He said "Give a troll or hoaxer enough rope and they will hang themselves with it." I subscribe to that idea. Give the poster all the room he needs to get it all out there on the table. Then, debate the content, not the poster.

This has been said over and over and over on ATS.

"Attack the post, not the poster!"
"If you can't advance the thread, move on"
"Courtesy is Mandatory"
"Stay on Topic"

How about this?

"Post with Class"

Hey, that's a new one....to some of you. I've been doing my very best to Post with Class since I've come to ATS. Every once in a while, I fail to do so, just like everyone else, but, the way I do it is I ask MYSELF "Can I add to this thread?" By adding to the thread, I mean "Can I make this thread more productive?" "Can I offer any evidence or documentation to support or oppose the topic?" "Is what I have to say relevant to the core of the topic?"

If the answer is "No" at any point in this process, I don't reply. I wait for either MORE information in the thread to appear, or, I decide that I can do more research outside ATS to support my viewpoint INSIDE ATS. Then, armed with more data and info, I go ahead and post.

One hundred PLUS times a day, I read a thread and think to myself "WOW, this guy is WAY out there". Honestly, I UNDERSTAND the thoughts that some posts inspire.

In my opinion,
"Class in Posting" is setting aside those negative shots and thoughts and not typing them.
"Class in Posting" is taking the personal responsability to suppress the urge to mock or derail a thread.
"Class in Posting" is making the most, not the least, of your privledges here at ATS.
"Class in Posting" Is always making your post positive in nature, whether for or against any given topic.
"Class in Posting" is writing NOTHING you wouldn't say to your Mom, Dad or personal Hero.
"Class in Posting" is the active rememberance that your opponent is a person, not an avatar.
"Class in Posting" is realising that what you are about to post, isn't as funny as it is in your head.

My opinion. All of it.

My reason, again, for writing up this Topic, is the fact that I let myself be less classy this morning and I think I owe ATS some Karma, or penence for that matter. I don't do that often at all, but, if it has happened, it's because I do care about post quality in ATS. I care about what I read. And, I feel it HAS to matter, what I post. This isn't MySpace or Facebook. ATS is not just a "Comments/Shout Out box to post folly in. We have BTS for that. ATS has to be of a higher standard of posting quality. The subject matter we address on ATS is not going to be taken seriously at all if our content is lowbrow or borderline ridiculous and some of the odd opening post's only become borderline ridiculous when someone points out that they feel it is so. To the original poster, it's not ridiculous at all. EVEN if it's an attempted hoaxer or troll, the topic is their creation and they should be confronted with the facts or data concerning the topic. Ridicule is the weakest argument presentable and the hoaxer/trolls roll in it like pigs in the mud. They feed off ridicule. How does it go? "Don't feed the Trolls"?

Don't feed the trolls.

Now, who thinks they have contributed to "Class in Posting"? Do you support what I've said? It's all been very positive in nature. I think there are many, many members who understand exactly what I'm saying and do their very best (and succeed!) to promote "Class in Posting", but, what I want to know, is if you recognize in YOURSELF the lack of "Class" in your posting history. AND are you willing to change it.

This isn't about how someone else posts. This is about how you really feel about your ability to Post with Class. It doesn't have to be by my standards at all. I've just listed them to express a point. Those are the criteria that I think expresses class. You are, by no means, obligated to follow my path. But, I would love to hear I'm on the right path. I'd love to think that you are to.

Just saying.
Again, sorry 'bout this morning.
Cuhail

Is this the post you were referring to?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by DJMessiah



Yes DJ, that is the thread where I should have held my tongue. Does that matter to this topic? No. It is just the thread containing my posting less that classy and that inspired me to write this.
Don't get me wrong, I take full responsibility for my words there, but, I stick to what I wrote. It (The thread you link to) is a good example, I think, of "Less than Class" in posting. Both on my part and for the posters I addressed.

Some saw that they were wrong and apologized. My point is it shouldn't have to come to apologies. If the posters had held off on what they thought was "Funny", the thread may have prospered or sank on the merits of it's subject, not the content of it's replies.

Thanks for posting.
Cuhail

reply to post by Cuhail


for what its worth cuhail, i think you are a class act. i enjoy your posts, and you have given me a good example to follow.

you told it how it was in that thread, but you are right, sometimes telling it like it is can derail a thread and be just as bad as other non-class posters.

see ya around cuhail.

Class? I don't expect a lot of class from such a diverse spectrum of members, especially considering to median age of those posting here.

IMO "class" usually comes with maturation and sophistication.

Not to say that I don't appreciate a classy well thought out thread but sometimes it's sort of fun to get a little trashy.

reply to post by Cuhail


Well, I guess the cat is out of the bag and now everyone can see those that participated in the derailing of that thread, including myself. So in order to put a little 'class' back into my own posts, and to ensure others do not judge me based upon that one thread, I shall reiterate the apology that I gave in that thread...

I hereby apologise for derailing the thread with Monty Python quotes, I should have thought more clearly about it (kind of hard when you haven't slept for 24 hours) and answered the OP with an intelligent response rather than acting childishly.

In terms of 'Post with class' I usually try to do so in most cases. I appreciate you putting me in my place over this incident Cuhail, and I hope now that everyone knows what thread you were talking about, that they will understand that I am not usually like that.

Although, perhaps to save the embarrassment of those who are genuinely remorseful, you may wish to not detail the particular thread you referred to in future so as members cannot therefore be singled out for retribution by other members


[edit on 3/10/2008 by Kryties]

As long as the message is clear I don't care how classy or unclassy the post is.

reply to post by Cuhail


This is one of the many times that I have wished for the ability to give stars in the BBQ section. Very well said Cuhail, I agree completely. I've seen many a promising thread die an agonizing death due to the lack of class and civility of some of the posters. I do my best to post in the least offensive way possible, but being human everyone slips up sometimes.

Again, very well said. Here's hoping that everyone stops to read it!

Much respect Cuhail.

I too have succumbed to the dark side on occasion, and attempt to rectify it afterwards. Some posts can ilicit powerful feelings in us, particularly those that seem unneccesarily derisive of a person who has put themselves out there and then asked for input.

I am reminded of some of the GFL threads. I don't [intellectually] believe that anything will happen on the 14th, but there is nothing lost in hoping, even wishing it to be so.

Much of the time, particularly in the 9/11 threads, when I feel that a debate has surrendered to sniping barbs, innuendo and hyperbole -- I just bow out. It isn't cowardice. It's a recognition of my own traits and faults and a desire to not contribute negatively. I ask myself constantly -- both as an online entitie(s) and in life -- "what is your goal?" If there's no answer, then there's no point. Followed by "is your current course furthering that goal?"

Have been noticing your posts in the short time I've been a member at ATS. You're a class act, and I think your posts make a difference. We could all do much worse than to follow your lead.

Cheersmon

reply to post by whaaa

Class? I don't expect a lot of class from such a diverse spectrum of members, especially considering to median age of those posting here.

No one expects it. Neither do I. I'm hoping to inspire some.

IMO "class" usually comes with maturation and sophistication.

Agreed. As a representative of ATS, don't you want to set a good example to follow? Be mature? Sophistication is relative to the situation at hand. Maturity is always, at least, sought after, by even the most juvenile poster. By posting here in ATS, they do seek mature subjects.

Not to say that I don't appreciate a classy well thought out thread but sometimes it's sort of fun to get a little trashy.

Here? At ATS? I mean, I could see getting trashy in BTS, that's almost it's exclusive use. To be less serious. (BTSers, I apologize if my lack of attendance in BTS makes me ignorant, but, am I wrong?) Here at ATS are the serious subjects, despite their believability, that whether hoax or just nutty, should be addressed with seriousness and interest...or not at all. In my opinion.

reply to post by Kryties


No apologies are required, from me at least. I ask people to just understand that, in the future, they can bring the intellegence level higher by asking pertinant questions, replying with the intent to advance the topic and know that, regardless of the topic or poster, it's an exchange of ideas and information that makes ATS what it is.

I have no problem with what you've (or anybody else) posted in the past. But I want to star and applaud more good posts in the future To that end, I started this thread. Post in your head and see how it sounds first, then, type out the text and read it. Would your grandma approve? Yes? Then post. Would Grandma frown and give you that "Look" if she read it?

Listen to Grandma.

I'm not addressing anything from before this thread started. This is a future attempt for people to take more responsibility for what they post.

Thanks for chiming in, both of you guys.
Cuhail

reply to post by Cuhail


I completely understand where you are coming from and I truly do know that I was out of line in that thread. I joined this site with the intention of getting down to the knitty-gritty of issues and those sorts of actions detract from that goal.

As an aside...

Originally posted by Cuhail
Would Grandma frown and give you that "Look" if she read it?

Listen to Grandma.

If you had actually met my grandmother you would offer up an alternative person to keep in mind. My grandmother can only be described as a 'one woman army'.....

reply to post by Corum



A well written, clear message on-topic IS classy posting. Well-written, clear messages off-topic are "Less" than classy.

Thanks for posting.

reply to post by Jenna


Thank you Jenna. Yes, everyone slips up. I did just this morning. And worse, I kept replying and egging it on. You dig okay. I've read a bunch of your posts and I have never seen you lose your cool. Right on!


reply to post by argentus

Much of the time, particularly in the 9/11 threads, when I feel that a debate has surrendered to sniping barbs, innuendo and hyperbole -- I just bow out. It isn't cowardice. It's a recognition of my own traits and faults and a desire to not contribute negatively. I ask myself constantly -- both as an online entitie(s) and in life -- "what is your goal?" If there's no answer, then there's no point. Followed by "is your current course furthering that goal?"

You dig. That's very much how I think.

Here's to the future! And furthering positive goals.

Slainte!

Thank you all for posting.
Cuhail

reply to post by Kryties


My mom called my brother's Drill Instructor at Camp Pendleton and lit into him on what he needed to do to get through to my brother. And then moved up the line until she got the Base Commander on the phone and then told HIM!

My brother became a model Marine and when he graduated from Basic, the Base Commander called my mom back to thank her.

I think your Grandma would have traded "recipes" with my Mom anyday!


Cuhail

[edit on 10/3/2008 by Cuhail]

Oh my, what an excellent post. Thanks for this!

I think at least certain measures of civility are never too much to ask, even here on ATS. Stay classy.

RR, your welcome. Thank You! Classy is a state of mind. The constant act of thinking before you speak. Glad you embrace it.

My brother uses the phrase "Visor up, sword down". There is a time and place for the opposite, and ATS is rarely it.
Even those who delibrately come here to pull the wool, so to speak, do so with the confidence that someone will start the fires a-burning and ATS loses face there too, so ragging about the hoaxers isn't any defense for classless posting either. Is it? What do the trolls and hoaxers feed on? The Chaos borne of ridicule. Silence is golden. You don't agree to the thread/post? Disregard it and move on. I know when I see 800 views and 6 replies, I generally disregard. Or, out of curiosity of why such an odd count exists, I'll read the, apparently, quiet thread to see the content.

Then decide if I can add to the topic discussion or not. If I think the OP is a boob, I move on. Or, I star the posts that disagreed in a good, classy way and then move on.

Not too much work in classy posting, but, class is it's own reward.

Cuhail

ATS should not be in the business of coddling everyone. There is A LOT of chaff to separate from the wheat here, and if you encourage those who appear to be high to continue posting by leading them on, your just going to make it harder to separate it all.

As long as it attacks the substance and not the poster themselves, why should people be praised for claiming they can talk to trees?

reply to post by LowLevelMason



You misunderstand me LLM. I would never ask ATS to "coddle" anyone. If that's what you think I'm saying, you read it too quickly or wrong.

I am saying take more resposability in your own posting habits. Choose to disuade useless, mocking posts by not making them yourself. Choose to not participate in the mocking.

If you read a post and you believe the poster is fraudulent, but, have no counter argument other than "You're on drugs", etc; don't post. Refuse to help the thread get more attention by passing the opportunity to bump it. If you have relevant data that supports or refutes the topic presented, then do so with clarity and politeness. Not scoffingly or mockingly, that feeds the Trolls and you know the last place we feed trolls is ATS, am I right? Don't feed the trolls.

Let them starve out.

A good topic, well presented, is almost a joy, am I right? We crave good posts. Why do the opposite yourself?
Hoaxers crave the attention and if you think a topic is a hoax, ignore it. It forces the hoaxer to try the "dangle" again and he will ellicit attention by presenting more information. And, if THAT is yet seen as more hoax, ignore it again. No attention to the intended hoax makes a hoaxer crazy, I would assume. He would then, logically, offer yet more information, thus letting his noose out farther.

Is there any "coddling" in there at all? I don't see any. Just a technique that may improve our little piece of internet maturity.

Thanks for posting.
Cuhail


[edit on 10/5/2008 by Cuhail]

reply to post by Cuhail


Cuhail, this pretty much sums up my thoughts on etiquette in posting.

You can either choose to add nothing to a discussion by throwing pointless invectives around, or you can simply disregard it and let it run its course. If you disagree with a post, you should be able to explain why you disagree with it rather than dismissing it with some immature reason such as "You're on drugs" or "You're crazy."

Originally posted by Cuhail
reply to post by whaaa

 

Here? At ATS? I mean, I could see getting trashy in BTS, that's almost it's exclusive use. To be less serious. (BTSers, I apologize if my lack of attendance in BTS makes me ignorant, but, am I wrong?)

As a person who has a tendency to hang around in the BTS side more often than the ATS side, I think you'll find that very often you'll find subjects that people will take very seriously. For example in the "Faith and Spirituality" section. I figure that the main difference between the BTS side and the ATS side is in the topics themselves. Typically on the ATS side you have the conspiracys. On the BTS side you have other subjects. True things are often a little more freewheeling on the BTS side however seriousness does also occur.

As far as BTS being "trashy"? Well, I suppose it all depends on how you look at it. Tell you what. Why don't you take a look around and explore some more and then you can come to a conclusion. Sound fair? There are times when one needs to decompress from various things and BTS is a great place to do so.

Here at ATS are the serious subjects, despite their believability, that whether hoax or just nutty, should be addressed with seriousness and interest...or not at all. In my opinion.

I find myself in agreement with you in that I endeavor to follow and give each subject it's due and give it serious thought.

Oh by the way, no insult taken as far as BTS side of things. (chuckle)



Edited to correct quoting oops on my part.


[edit on 10-10-2008 by Deson]

reply to post by Cuhail


That sounds good and dandy for somebody with control and mastering of the English language.

But you forgot in your well written and in dept OP that many posters in this boards are not masters degree or doctorates in language and arts.

I am one of those.

BTW I consider myself classy and sophisticated, I am just not a born American with English as my first language, thank you very much.