Newcastle College Student Suspended For Protesting Army Recruiters

Alright guys i thought i'd bring this to your attention as another blatent violations of our Freedom or Speech.

A STUDENT got his marching orders from a college after he quizzed Army recruitment officers on campus.

Artem Liebenthal, 19, was part of a six-strong student Stop The War group when he approached the military men and asked: “How many of our students would be killed?”

Sunday Sun

Now Artem is actually in my class at College, i've known him for over a year now and the lad hasn't got a bad bone in his body, he's what tutors would describe as an 'outstanding student'. He's also not afraid to stand up for what he believes in which is quite honourable considering he's only been in this country for the last couple of years for study purposes.

The situation with our freedoms is becoming worse and worse by the day, and the fact that the Army Recruiters came onto the College campus and you're not even allowed to protest their presence there is shocking. I could understand it if Artem went to an Army Barracks to do this, but this is just a joke.

You can find even more about this on the below Stop The War website;

Stop The War
Stop The War PDF Document

Artem is actually going to use this thread as another example of the support for his case when he goes before a disciplinary hearing.

(sorry if this is in the wrong forum)

[edit on 22/9/08 by Liamoville - Taken Off Petition Links]

[edit on 22/9/08 by Liamoville]

The way I see it? He asked a dumb question. What reaction do you expect from the Military? If you ask stupid questions, you get stupid reactions.

I'm joining the Army, from my experience, I think the Army recruitment officers are very friendly and very helpful. Maybe if he'd reworded his question he would have got a more friendly reaction. The question he asked was pretty dumb in my opinion. Maybe some of those recruitment officers have lost friends in the War. I can understand them getting very irritable by that question.

How were they supposed to answer that question?



[edit on 22uMonday08/27/08 by paul76]

I don't think you are allowed to post links for petitions and the like. I believe its a violation of T&C to "recruit" for a cause.

On topic though. I don't feel sorry for the kid at all.

He asked the question "How many of our Students would be killed?" It's a valid question.

Of course they seem 'very friendly and helpful' as they are trying to get people to join, the sad truth is they don't give two flying f**ks about anyone that signs up.

Originally posted by nyk537
I don't think you are allowed to post links for petitions and the like. I believe its a violation of T&C to "recruit" for a cause.

Ahh right, if thats true then just close the topic.

Yeah.

Sorry.

1 e.) Recruitment/Solicitation:

i) You will not use your membership at The Above Network, LLC site(s) for any type of recruitment to any causes whatsoever. You will not post, use the chat feature or use the private message system to disseminate advertisements, chain letters, petitions, pyramid schemes, or any kind of solicitation for political action, social action, letter campaigns, or related online and/or offline coordinated actions of any kind.

I'm afraid you'll have to take the petition links down pretty soon.

Originally posted by Liamoville
He asked the question "How many of our Students would be killed?" It's a valid question.

Obviously the answer is none because having joined the army you'd no longer a student And ion any case the answer is: "hopefully none". But who can tell? How many fishermen or firemen or construction workers die?

My guess is, as usual, the media story isn't the whole story and this student was not suspended just for asking a silly question.

One thing I have learnt over the years is whatever the media tell you is never the full story. Just the story they think will provoke the biggest reaction.

Originally posted by Liamoville
He asked the question "How many of our Students would be killed?" It's a valid question.

Of course they seem 'very friendly and helpful' as they are trying to get people to join, the sad truth is they don't give two flying f**ks about anyone that signs up.

How the hell are they supposed to answer that question? They're not clairvoyants People who sign up for the Army, we bloody know the dangers.

Like I said, it was a stupid question. I'm surprised they didn't kick his ass out of the doors.

This is disgusting.Thank you for allowing us to read AND act on this vulgar display showing an institutionalized chilling of free speech by an "institution of higher learning"These people need to be reminded of what they work for and why.

As far as the question I think it was in bad taste. A little tact and respect can go along way.

As far as he's right to free speech...is he a citizen? Cause if he isn't I don't think our constitution applies. That statement could be completely wrong and I apologize if it is.

That being said. Anyone that thinks Army recruiters are not lying to you then you really need to wake up. I was in the military for 4 years. If a recruiter doesn't lie to you then there is something wrong, there literally not doing there job. There only purpose is to get you into the army by any means. When I was going through my paperwork a question was asked " Do you or have you ever had tubes in your ears?" If you answer yes your out no questions asked. My recruiter told me to say no if i wanted to join. He then told me to say no when they (the finally paperwork people at Meps (sp?)) asked "Has your recruiter knowing asked you to lie or withhold any information?". Which I then had to sign agreeing that they (the recruiter) and myself haven't lied or withheld info. I could go on and on with examples, but that is for another thread.

p.s. the recruiter, who took me out to a steak dinner and pit seats at the indy 500, tried to have sex with my now ex-g/f ONE week after I left. Honesty yeah right.

[edit on 22-9-2008 by hILB3rT]

Originally posted by paul76
The way I see it? He asked a dumb question. What reaction do you expect from the Military? If you ask stupid questions, you get stupid reactions.
...

"How many of our students are going to get killed?" is a dumb question? That's the question EVERY SINGLE MILITARY LEADERS ASKS whenever they are making plans to go into battle. "How many of our soldiers are going to be casualties in this plan?"

How, exactly, do you figure that is a "stupid question"?

[edit on 22-9-2008 by sir_chancealot]

Originally posted by sir_chancealot

Originally posted by paul76
The way I see it? He asked a dumb question. What reaction do you expect from the Military? If you ask stupid questions, you get stupid reactions.
...

"How many of our students are going to get killed?" is a dumb question? That's the question EVERY SINGLE MILITARY LEADERS ASKS whenever they are making plans to go into battle. "How many of our soldiers are going to be casualties in this plan?"

How, exactly, do you figure that is a "stupid question"?

[edit on 22-9-2008 by sir_chancealot]

Because it's impossible to answer. That's why it's a dumb question.

Originally posted by paul76

Originally posted by sir_chancealot

Originally posted by paul76
The way I see it? He asked a dumb question. What reaction do you expect from the Military? If you ask stupid questions, you get stupid reactions.
...

"How many of our students are going to get killed?" is a dumb question? That's the question EVERY SINGLE MILITARY LEADERS ASKS whenever they are making plans to go into battle. "How many of our soldiers are going to be casualties in this plan?"

How, exactly, do you figure that is a "stupid question"?

[edit on 22-9-2008 by sir_chancealot]

Because it's impossible to answer. That's why it's a dumb question.

Just because its impossible to answer doesn't justify it as a dumb question. Using that logic just about 70%( just a random guess) of the topics on ATS would be considered "dumb" because there impossible to answer. i.e. Are there really Aliens, is time travel possible, anything about conspiracies the list could go on an on.

[edit on 22-9-2008 by hILB3rT]

Like I said in my original post, he should have reworded the question. He went with the intent of causing controversy. How do you expect the Army to react to such a question?

The question he asked isn't dumb if used in a normal situation, but being aimed directly towards Army recruitment officers makes it a stupid error of judgement. The College kid was trying too make a point, I think he succeeded. Congratulations.

I think the college has overstepped its bounds. The issue isn't whether the question asked was "dumb" but whether he had the right to ask the question. The answer is a resounding yes. Even more so since it occurred on a college campus. College is typically a place where young adults branch out from the beliefs of their parents and begin to assert themselves. This may lead to a short period of time where the students speak out against authority. For a college campus to discipline a student for this is asinine. The epitome of protests are college campuses with students leading the way.

reply to post by ninthaxis


Sorry for the one liner, but Amen.

I certainly don't deny that the student has the right to protest. However, wouldn't his efforts be better suited, if he wrote to his Congressman and Senators, and express his opposition to whatever he felt they represented.
After all, the recruiters were just doing their job. They don't make policy and they don't choose what wars to wage.
Furthermore, they have every right to enlist in the service, and perform their job.
Do people go up to every person that works at Walmart and accuse them of destroying the fabric of small town America? They are just working to support their family, and if Walmart is all that is around in the job market in their town, they have no alternative.

Leave the military recruiters alone. They CAN'T change policy, and they won't leave, regardless of what they do. They're just performing their duty.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


I would say no, they wouldn't be. No one would find out if he wrote his congressman. I would be willing to bet no congressman even reads the letter if it gets sent. While wearing a military uniform, the recruiter represents the US military. This is why the question was posed to the recruiter. Perhaps the kid could have influenced the recruiter's thinking, made him realize that he is a salesman of potential death for these young adults and this recruiter would speak out. It only takes a spark to get a fire glowing is so very true.

Originally posted by paul76
I'm joining the Army, from my experience, I think the Army recruitment officers are very friendly and very helpful.

You have a long road ahead of you, with lots of learning along the way. Good luck. That type of blind optimism can do wonders for a military career.

I fully support protesting this type of thing. It's not very shocking that your classmate was suspended.

[edit on 22-9-2008 by scientist]

Perhaps the kid could have influenced the recruiter's thinking, made him realize that he is a salesman of potential death for these young adults and this recruiter would speak out.

Well, perhaps that is your opinion. I look at recruiters as people who are trying to get patriotic men and women to stand up and defend their country and their country's interests. There is no draft. Just because some people do not want to serve their country, is no reason to deny the right of others to serve. Or perhaps you don't believe in freedom of choice, if people don't agree with you?
By your logic, then, car salesmen are "salesmen of potential death to young adults". In fact, more so, than military recruiters. since FAR MORE young adults die in automobile accidents than have died in the US military in the last year.