Boeing and Lockheed's new bomber!

aviationweek

I expect something more radical or new, but instead its just an "integration" as they call it on Boeing's design. Lockheed is something more newer to me in a way. Seen the design before but not an actual plane yet since it has yet to be produce. I go with the Lockheed's design.

[edit on 17-9-2008 by deltaboy]

A little more detail on DoD's 2 choices for the Next Gen Bomber...


The latest offerings from the "big 3" US aerospace giants as seen at the 2008 Air Force Association convention.


Boeing NGB model


Boeing NGB model

Boeing/Lockheed:
Boeing is offering a blended wing, diamond shaped body with narrow outer wings that are reminescnet of the X-45 UCAV. Specific desired capabilities are undisclosed, but we pretty much know what they want.



Northrop-Grumman:
The NG offering is one we've seen before. The long center section makes plenty of room for engines and payload.
Northrop believes their NGB version should be a stealthy, subsonic aircraft, able to overcome the lack of friendly airfields by being able to deliver its payload at ranges exceeding 2,000 miles, unrefueled.

Other planned attributes include the capability to carry up to 28,000 pounds of ordnance thus allowing it to drop more weapons with fewer sorties as well as having the ability to work both alone or in a "wolfpack" of networked manned and unmanned systems to "swarm" over hostile targets.


Northrop Grumman NGB


Who stands the best chance?

There is much conjecture that Northrop has either won the competition already or has been contracted to build a working demonstrator. Consider the following quote from Bill Sweetman's Ares blog on the AW&ST website:

"... on April 26 (2008) when Northrop Grumman issued its first-quarter financial results. Discreetly hidden on Schedule 5: "The company was awarded approximately $2.6 billion for restricted programs during this period." The results also showed that the only Northrop Grumman sector showing an increase in backlog on that scale, from March 31 2007 to March 31 2008, was Integrated Systems, the aircraft segment. So it is there in black and white that Northrop Grumman got more than $2 billion for a secret aircraft program or programs in the first quarter."



Sources:
Boeing's New Bomber: AW&ST 9/16/08

NGC Makes the Case for a 2018 Next-Generation Bomber

Northrop Grumman's Secret X-Bomber

A few questions:


1. Boeing definitely subsonic? Looks like it, and the emphasis is on endurance. Anyone any details on the planform geometry?

2. Northrop maybe supersonic? (Nice to see the cranked leading edge, always thought the Saab Viggen looked cool ) Same question on planform geometry?

3. Are Boeing's military end producing the KC767? If they have already 'lost' this competition, it could be why Boeing are yapping so much about the tanker contract.

4. Which program is this exactly? 2015 bomber?


[edit on 17/9/08 by kilcoo316]

Originally posted by kilcoo316
1. Boeing definitely subsonic? Looks like it, and the emphasis is on endurance.

Yeah, Boeing's version is definitely subsonic.

Originally posted by kilcoo316
2. Northrop maybe supersonic?

The Northrop version has been discussed as a high subsonic/low supersonic vehicle. So there is certainly a possibility of it being supersonic, which could actually be a big plus for the Northrop plan.
As for planform geometry I don't know.

Originally posted by kilcoo316
3.If they have already 'lost' this competition, it could be why Boeing are yapping so much about the tanker contract.

Good observation, I couldn't agree with you more on that.

Originally posted by kilcoo316
4. Which program is this exactly? 2015 bomber?

Yes, this is the 2018 bomber, the 2035 one is supposed to be a hypersonic space bomber.

Can wee imagine the Blackswift will be the futur 2035 hypersonic space bomber, if the 2015 bomber is on the way?

reply to post by intelgurl


Can we imagine Blackswift can be the 2035 hypersonic space bomber if the 2015 Bomber is under way?

I'm glad to see the current USAF Chief of Staff give emphasis to the importance of the NGB, despite what 'this-war-its' SecDef Gates might have had in mind when he nominated him.

Judging from the images alone would it be too far fetched to say Boeing might have the more long ranged design with a lower RCS. While NG has the faster and more payload capable one?

One thing that comes to mind is the number of supposed images that have been posted that looks like Boeings offering which besides the 45 reminds me of the Polecat. Would make some speculate that the platform is still being tested somewhere with a rebuild after the crash which was unusual to begin with provide a black cover-up when the project went into the black.

But besides that speculation I would put my money on Northrop's submission already being in development with the amount of black funds they have that still allows the company to be in the black in times like these with no contracts in the pipeline like this.

reply to post by Canada_EH


except the polecat was built by lockheed

aviationweek



the NG offering looks near enough like a scaled up X-47B

www.is.northropgrumman.com...

reply to post by Harlequin


Sorry Har guess I wasn't clear in my post above

I'm well aware it was Lock-Mart but was just making the connection on simple visual base.

Mind you Defense Tech is posting that this is a possible joint project again.

I've heard rumors that this joint Lockheed-Boeing project would produce a medium range, medium payload bomber, but Sweetman's pics kinda/sorta resemble a long range, heavy payload B-2 Spirit.

www.defensetech.org...
But that could be miss information on his part a simple mistake

[edit on 18-9-2008 by Canada_EH]

[edit on 18-9-2008 by Canada_EH]

the wings of the boeing model remins me of Senior Peg

dlr.thexhunters.com...

reply to post by Harlequin


Agree with that observation for sure. Mind you the lack of a added tail and the body are very different. Can anyone expand on why what appears to be the cockpit is laid out the way it is or the pros of the new center section. 2 me it looks more simple thus more stealthy but its hard to make assumptions off of a model.

I just can't stop seeing other parts of other faked image or previous models or test beds in this Boeing/Lock-Mart offering. Where as the X-47B design from Northrop seems much more of a new take on the structure of the plane.

Boeing's Next Generation Bomber; Who's Yer Daddy?

Originally posted by Harlequin
the wings of the boeing model remins me of Senior Peg

dlr.thexhunters.com...

Yeah Harley, I think you "pegged" it with that call.

So that we can have a clear and easy look at the possible heritage of this airframe, here are a few images:


Boeing's NGB model (below)



Boeing's X-45 UCAV (below)



Lockheed's Polecat UAV (below)



Lockheed's Senior Peg (below)

reply to post by intelgurl


Intelgurl isn't the senior peg image suppose to be inverted to be black? I remember reading somewhere that the Gov had photoshopped the colour to be inverted?

Sorta like this.


Also when you look at the wing sweep I see more Polecat in it then Peg, but to each their own




[edit on 19-9-2008 by Canada_EH]

Here's a good article.

Next-Gen Bomber Requires Design Discipline.

Bill Sweetman

The B-1B is at best a compromise; the B-2 unaffordable to upgrade or support; the supersonic B-58 was an inflexible widow-maker; and the B-70 and B-1A were scrapped before production.

Now USAF wants to develop a Next Generation Bomber (NGB) by 2018, a shorter timescale than any recent program. In some ways, the project has started: DTI reported in June (p. 16) that Northrop Grumman received a $2-billion boost in classified programs revenue in its Integrated Systems sector—responsible for manned and unmanned air vehicles—in the first quarter. The most likely reading of this, combined with what is known about Northrop Grumman’s work on the NGB and the unclassified funding line for that project in Pentagon budgets, is that the company won a sole-source contract for a large, stealthy platform to demonstrate critical NGB technologies.

Aviationweek.

Over groom:

Can't imagine it being supersonic.

[edit on 30/9/2008 by C0bzz]