Calling all Kiwis!! (New Zealanders)

Originally posted by xpert11

On another matter do you support MMP ?
I do and I think its time that we settled on our electoral system . I also think that the unicameral Parliament works well .

I always thought that we vote out a MP via there electorate seat then they come back into parlaiment via the LIST what a load of bollocks.....

Not a Kiwi, but have visited there and worked with NZSAS. Great bunch of guys.

And for the poster that asked if Kiwis didn't like tourists; when I was there (South Island), I was treated great. Very friendly bunch of people and would go back there in a second.

reply to post by greenfruit


You see this is the kind of thing that I know nothing about and need to research. Thanx for showing me this!

The only thing mysterious in New Zealand that I knew anything about was the Crater near Tapanui.

Im my reseach I found that Matarua (a town near me) is a Maori word that would describe a UFO, and that Pukerau certainly isn't "Land of rolling hills" as the welcome to sign suggest.

Check this out. What I love about the mystery is that the area in which i used to live has lave amounts of basalt rocks and boulders (commonly used as door stops) jet there is no volcanic activity in the region and never has. The origin of the rocks is therefore a mystery.

[edit on 9/6/2008 by Good Wolf]

reply to post by greenfruit


That isnt a bad point at all Winston Peters is a good example of what you are talking about . MMP could be tweaked so that a candidate or MP would have to chose between being a List MP or an electoral MP . Although in that case I think that party's would just run more candidates.


Jerico65 in what capacity did you work the NZSAS ?

Ambitious thread Goodwolf, knowing how ‘shy’ the Kiwi is!!

I am up in the Waikato area btw, if I can submit my 2 dollar a litre!

MMP was probably the worst move ever for a country with only 3.4 million (at the time mmp came in!)
Considering the amount of legitimate voters there are! (Talk about ‘jobs for the boys!’) We seem to have more politicians than we know what to do with!
The list members are not (in my mind) democratically voted in, yet will pick up a parliamentary salary, for which the so few taxpayers foot the bill.

If they can hang around for the obligatory time, then they will receive subsidised air travel for them and their family, they will receive a pension (superannuation) way in excess of what the voter – who did not put them there in the first place receives!

On to the Military aspect! Instead of scrapping the ‘combat wing’ of the Airforce, they should have adopted the ‘Canadian’ model for defence forces.
When you have a country with such a small population as we have, it would seem ludicrous to have THREE services, army, navy and airforce. With all the ‘Admin, paperwork, three different sets of uniform etc that it entails, we are paying a fortune for ‘old UK tradition’ get with it, get smart!

The politically correct band and greenies have a field day here, very few have the guts to stand up to them – because they need their votes – be it in parliament or out in the hustings. Check out this site for the ‘political correctness’ of our supposed history!

His tory!

Okay, rant over (for the time being!)

I may address the gang situation later!
H

Havalon I regard List MPs as representing the wider electorate rather then just a specific geographical area . Plus I like the voting flexibility that comes with MMP after all my party vote and electoral vote don't have to be for the same party . If New Zealand adopted STV we would end up with a two party system which is really a one party system and undemocratic. I am open to improving MMP just not to playing hot potato with our electoral system every five minutes . Also I have had the opposite thought about MMP due to the fact that I think it reflects the way our small population voted well .

One thing that I defiantly don't like is that the Attorney General is a sitting government MP . The Attorney General should be appointed on a ten year basis and not a sitting MP . The idea of forming a joint NZDF service has merit . My main fear is that Labour and co would use the concept to further reduce investment in the defence forces .

I'm all for reducing government. I must admit that I'm ignorant to how our political system works. Can you give me an outline?

I always thought NZ's Armed Forces should be based along the lines of the US Marine Corp. Highly trained, mobile reactionary force.

Originally posted by Good Wolf
I'm all for reducing government. I must admit that I'm ignorant to how our political system works. Can you give me an outline?

Where to start ?

MMP main flaw is its complexity STV is a simpler system . List MPs make up the difference between the number of electoral seats and the party vote that a party gains . If a party gains five percent of the party vote they gain representative in Parliament . If a party gains more electoral seats then is equal to its party vote overhang occurs and the number of MPs in Parliament is adjusted . That is why there 121 sitting MPs in the current Parliament . The Greens can said to be a product of MMP because they have no electoral MPs .

See Source and Source .



[edit on 7-9-2008 by xpert11]

reply to post by xpert11



Hi expert11

Havalon I regard List MPs as representing the wider electorate rather then just a specific geographical area.

I don’t know about you expert11, but when was the last time you saw or talked to your list MP? Ours has never visited this electorate. His party leader did (just after the election, and when we decided to protest about the use of 1080.) We are expecting to see more of them as the election gets closer – strange that!

Plus I like the voting flexibility that comes with MMP after all my party vote and electoral vote don't have to be for the same party

That, too, in my opinion is the only thing decent that came out of MMP, only provided they (the electoral candidate) does not have to toe the ‘party line’.
Democracy is a fickle thing in the hands of a controlling government. – Referendums seem to be avoided at all cost if it does not conform to the ‘party line’.

If New Zealand adopted STV we would end up with a two party system which is really a one party system and undemocratic.

How so?

I am open to improving MMP just not to playing hot potato with our electoral system every five minutes.

I agree, but put it to the people after a fixed term, they should be the judge of whether it is working or not!
We have had MMP for quite a while now, so let us (the voting public) assess it!

Also I have had the opposite thought about MMP due to the fact that I think it reflects the way our small population voted well.

I am curious as to how the ‘list politician’ came into being, and more importantly, why?
Did MMP come as a ‘package deal’ or is it because the ‘smaller parties would not receive the proportional representation they felt they deserved?
(Isn’t that un-democratic? If they were that good, all their candidates would be voted in!)

I agree with you about the Attorney General too! The ‘speaker’ should also have no political affiliations.

The idea of forming a joint NZDF service has merit. My main fear is that Labour and co would use the concept to further reduce investment in the defence forces.

Why would you spend good taxpayers money and buy Canadian vehicles, when we can actually design and manufacture something far superior and more suitable to our needs. Reopen the vehicle assembly plants and get cracking! Sell off any excess to other ‘friendly’ countries with similar terrain! Thus creating more jobs and export potential!


H


[edit on 7-9-2008 by Havalon]

I cant say that I have met any MPs but the up coming election should present me with an opportunity to do so. As for your 2nd question I should have worded my statement better to reflect that it was my impression of what would likely happen at some stage sorry about that . Anyway while it is impossible to say without calculations concerning preferences the following would happen in part if the party vote was taken away at the last election . The Greens would vanish , Winston Peters would have been voted out of office , Rodney Hide would be ACT sole MP and. Peter Dunne would also be United Future only MP .

The Maori party would be the only smaller or third party of note and the only party that could prevent National or Labour from governing alone . As for how list MP or rather the party vote came about my guess would be they were designed to reflect the way the electorate voted over a wider area . From a practical stand point as I have said list MP make up the difference between the party vote and the number electoral seats a party gains .
If you can find a better answer please post it . I agree with you concerning the Speaker of the House .

I like the idea of a home grown defence industry but two things are against it . The first is that the government seems to prefer to upgrade older equipment rather then replace it . Just look how the government chose to upgrade the C-130s rather then buying new aircraft . Also it is probably cheaper to buy equipment from our allies . Also any home grown defence industry would be very reliant on exports because of the small size of the NZDF .

Hello all - I'll bite, I'm from Auckland.

You added a link to the The Kaimanawa Wall - which is cool, but there is a much more interesting story lurking in the West Coast of the South Island.

Let me explain; In or around 1982, there was a TV news report on TV One which talked about the discovery of an old bridge, pottery, graves, and some carvings.

These were found in the area (I think) between Westport and Karamea. If you know the land you will know its hard yakka to walk through and very rough.

Anyhow, the discovery was made. Filmed. Then broadcast.

Then, mysteriously, a 'slip' occurred at the site of the discovery, and all trace of it was 'washed away'.

A decade later, an effort was made to find the original film footage - and the accompanying news report - from TVNZ Archives.

Incredibly, the footage had disappeared. There was no record of it being signed out either.

Why did this happen?

Because the film revealed artifacts not made from the hands of Maori - the style of the pottery, position of the graves, and the style of the bridge, were all of Celtic origin.

I was young when I saw this news clip. But my sister and I remember it vividly.

Since then, I've since worked extensively with TVNZ and Iwi organisations up and down NZ. TVNZ never loses footage. Never. Even back as far as 1991, it was a thorough government department that prided itself on its internal structures.

My experience with iwi organisations (and on a personal level, with those whom represent their tribe at Waitangi Treaty Settlement level) has taught me that there is too much at stake for this piece of footage to be seen again - let alone the topic in general.

If the Celtic bridge was found again and carbon dated, what would happen to all Treaty Claims?

What would happen if the Crown asked for all the land handed to Maori to be handed back?

Who knows. But it wouldn't be pretty.

NOW SOMETHING FOR THE AMERICAN ATS READERS...

Another NZ conspiracy concerns the gaping hole in our No Nukes policy: The policy states that no nuclear ship is allowed on NZ waters.

True.

But you can go under it. This is allowed. Just don't surface. Then you're in breach.

As of for the state of the country - we will have a common currency with Australia within 5 years. This has been talked about, and even initial drawings made of what the currency would look like - The Hollow Men details this. The political party the book talks about will be in power come mid-october.

My opinion on the state of the country?

Well, I think we're lucky. Lucky because our agricultural sector will save our asses. Again.

Lucky, because we're getting to grips with better supporting new businesses, ideas, invention, and being able to leverage them overseas.

Lucky because we have a fertile land that will never suffer from drought - we're a maritime country - never further than 140ks from the sea (in Southland).

Lucky, because of our isolation from the rest of the world. It has the effect of making you think harder, try harder, and be smarter - the old punch above our weight cliche.

What are the downsides?

A fluctuating dollar that makes it hard for export businesses to plan. Look at the Greenback versus the $NZ in recent months.

Our weakened defense force. I had a bit of a rant on the NZHerald website last week on this issue.
Army: Well, once again it's the man on the ground whom will suffer the most.
Navy: We need more ships - our small maritime patrol vessels are a joke.
Air Force: Our Air Force is in a bad way. I have a friend whom has been contracted on the fix up the C-130's. The underside of the aircraft was put on badly - it's going to fall off. Titanium will be welded on to the bottom of the aircraft. They are not resistant to ground fire.

There was previous talk about NZ's high teen pregnancy rate. This is very problematic. I have an ex-girfriend of mine, a nurse whom volunteered to work in the Termination Section of a local hospital.

Her observation?

Lack of role models, dependance on welfare, and plain ignorance are the main reason - but that's just the parents.

It's the generational dependance upon government welfare that lets NZ down time and time again.

As for the political scene...

A few months back I helped out a mate whom is running for office at the next election. I worked with him and other party officials (I'm not naming the party - you know them) on formulation a plan of attack for the next election.

After one week I was dismayed. After two weeks, and being a tad bit bloody minded, I rethought the plan and presented it to the exec. After three weeks I was relieved of the job. And thank-goodness too.

NZ is a two party state. The left and the right. On paper, they are the same. However, on closer inspection, it has been my observation that if National get in, then it is my fear the NZ will be worse off. I personally, will be better off, the country will lose.

I Labour get in, then NZ will stagnate. They're exhausted.

Right now, 2008 feels like 1992.

Originally posted by Mr Gunter

Because the film revealed artifacts not made from the hands of Maori - the style of the pottery, position of the graves, and the style of the bridge, were all of Celtic origin. If the Celtic bridge was found again and carbon dated, what would happen to all Treaty Claims?

What would happen if the Crown asked for all the land handed to Maori to be handed back?

If it helps, I remember that, too, and I'm in the US. I saw or read something about the find and that it was questioning the Maori treaties, since it looked like Europeans had settled there before them.

reply to post by jerico65



I have been looking into this recently. It is not the only peice of the puzzle to be swept under the carpet by the NZ Govt. Its a big joke as far as I am concerned. The more I look into it the more it seems like there was a pre Maori, European race here.

Cheers

Tiste


[edit on 7-9-2008 by Tiste Andii]

Kia ora nga hoa,
Ke te pehea koe?

Firstly, I'm a Pakeha living in Christchurch, which (for non-Kiwi) is the largest city in the South Island (but really, it's just a glorified farm-supply town with delusions of grandeur).

I've lived in the South Island my whole life, I love its majesty, though I don't like the rascism which seems to be more and more entrenched the further south one goes...though this is a generalisation and my perception can be wrong!

I don't like how people are really against Asians, and how they make knee-jerk comments about them without realising that there were Asians in Aotearoa/New Zealand before the majority of Europeans arrived. I also don't like how there is such a racial divide seeing as we are all of the same stock (being that of Homo sapiens sapiens and we really should make more effort to get along rather than just pay lip service to it and then crawl back intop our caves of prejudice (and this applies globally, not just with New Zealanders).

I firmly believe that we do not need a defence force and that we should put more money into education. I believe that we have a real 'calling' as diplomats and that we should put our efforts to creating discourse and acceptance rather than war and the associated murder that comes with it and that this applies globally as well. I realise I am idealistic, but I stand by my statement.

I wish the public was more knowledgeable about the realities of global warming and that the media portrayed it correctly rather than as something that is sexy and makes news. Global warming is a natural cycle that we, as humans are exacerbating. We have the ability to monitor our actions so that we have less impact, but no, we are in denial and scientifically ignorant, on the whole, so we get a skewed (mis)representation of it.

Maori have only been in Aotearoa for just over 150 years because before then they went by their tribal name, such as Ngati Porou, or Kai Tahu.
However, there are some interesting 'mysteries' such as the Waipoua Forest Archealogical Site, which has been surveyed but is under embargo until, I think, 2050.
Also, in pers.comm. with a researcher I was told of a conversation with Roger Duff, then of the Canterbury Museum who, when asked about the Pit dwelling sites around the South Island (one of which I have visited in the MacKenzie Country) said "We know about those, and we don't want to" and it seems that they have been academically ridiculed purposefully to allay any further investigation on them.

....not to mention the canal systems of Marlborough and Northland, nor the erasure of any mention of the Patupaiarehe, Urukehu, and Turehu from the latest version of the Encyclopaedia of Maori folklore....

...nor the lack of mention of watercourse maps on caves that have been traced back to pre-BCE China...

...nor the ongoing investigation into rat bones found beneath the Taupo tephra of 180CE, with no evidence of any bioturbation, thus implying at least a transient visitation by humans....

...the list goes on...


I love living in New Zealand. I don't feel I miss out on anything due to our geographical isolation.

reply to post by ChChKiwi


I was raised in Christchurch, left when I was 25, I fully understand it's underlying racist tones.

However, since moving to Auckland, I've found that there is more inherent racism than anything experienced in ChCh.

Racism is generally simplified as White vs Black.

However, in Auckland it's much more complicated. It's Asians versus Samoan, Samoan versus Maori, Somalian versus Indian, Chinese versus Korean. Trapped in the middle of all of this is are the Europeans and Maori. And that can be a dodgy relationship at the best of times.

A classic example of the type of one racial group versus another is happening in Auckland. You might have read or heard about Peter Low - the Howick gentleman whom put forward the idea of Triad controlled gangs patrolling the streets of the Asian dominated eastern Auckland suburbs. Obviously, it was a PR ploy to highlight the anti-Asian crime wave we're experiencing, but it's a great example of one racial group deliberately targeting another.

Now, that is a terrifying thought.

Look, ChCh ain't perfect, on my last trip there I was told that some of my good Maori friends have gone so far as to get in their cars, load up the kids, and drive around deliberately targeted the Koreans living in the Burnside/Avonhead area, and then thrown eggs, food, and rocks at them as they go by.

These people are bright, live in good homes, have good jobs and prospects, but something deep down makes them like this.

I dunno...

Otherwise, thanks for contributing to the thread.

It's good to see people from NZ having a crack. At least when they get home after work, have dinner, play family, then jump on the computer.

reply to post by Mr Gunter

Yessir, you are quite correct in stating that rascism is more than 'black and white'. It is so unfortunate.


I must also state that I am against nuclear power in New Zealand. I think that we have sufficient other resources to not go down that track, particularly as the expense and disposal costs would be prohibitive, but also because, frankly, we are inefficient in our use of electricity.
Secondly, I applaud (now-deceased Prime Minister)David Lange for standing up to the powers that be and declaring Enzed nuclear weapons free. We can do without (as time has proven) the visit by U.S. ships of mass destruction.
Now, if only we can do something about Waihopai, Tangimoana, Echelon and the UKUSA (phonetically "You Koozer" ) agreement.

Good Wolf, thanks for starting this thread. However, might I suggest that you get in contact with the Otago University Geology Department regarding that UFO crash as it is just plain deluded and wrong! The example of a melted gearbox is nothing more than botryoidal hematite, which is naturally occurring. It seems that the fella who wrote that isn't denying ignorance at all. Another example of scientific ignorance and being hoodwinked by faerie fancy!

reply to post by ChChKiwi


Haha, no I was never going to say that it was a UFO story, myself.
I've been in the crater and handled the rocks, myself as I used to live in the area.

It's clear to me that it is an impact crater from something of extraterrestrial origins- a meteor of some sort.

reply to post by Good Wolf


Chop originally from Papatoetoe,

I have been home a dozen times over the last decade, miss the ol twang.

All I have to say is,

I hope Byron gets a run this wknd, im looking forward of making mince meat out of those wannabies and taking the tri-nations.

reply to post by Agit8dChop


I don't care for rugby, myself.