Untersberg - The Mystery Mountain

(Changed my mind. Thinking of a better way of putting it...
Sorry for the hasty - and now empty - message.)




[edit on 22-12-2009 by Vanitas]

Originally posted by BlueOrb
reply to post by Skyfloating

 

Is it perhaps because even in times gone by, those "in the know" knew where to build churches and other places of worship, to connect with this source of heightened power? (I mentioned this in my post about Telluric currents).

Yes, that - along with the sheer visual prominence of the place (like a hilltop) - seems to have been the most probable cause.
(There have been many books written about this sort of "archaic" psychology - too many to mention any of them here. And art historians disregard them any way... )

But some might also argue that, in time, worship sort of "accumulates" and heightens the pre-existing "sacred" energy of the place.
(St John of Damascus spoke of such a phenomenon in his seminal treatise regarding icons. That's why I mentioned him in another post, BTW. )




[edit on 22-12-2009 by Vanitas]

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Who?. If you put it on record in a public forum you can claim prophetic ability later when its confirmed and also collect royalties for being the originator of the information.

And kiss the last shred of your professional standing goodbye...

(Sorry, I just had to LOL trying to imagine the faces of some of the art historians that I know... They are - not all of them, but very many - an awfully stuffy and closed-minded lot, like you wouldn't believe it!)

Luckily for me, my life and career(s) do not depend on the academic points earned by every quotation by someone else in a peer-reviewed magazine.

Besides, I suspect they already know I have prophetic abilities.
(At least I think so: or why else would they cross themselves and carry garlic around their necks every time they come to meet me?)




[edit on 23-12-2009 by Vanitas]

Wow - the echo in here is AMAZING... ...!
(And are those cobwebs? Ugh!)



Anyway, I just wanted to say that I have posted a series of very useful history sourcebooks (in a separate thread).
It is highly unlikely that you'll need it here, but since it was inspired directly by the mention of John of Damascus, triggered by questions about the position of ancient churches, in this thread, I thought I'd mention it anyway.


I hope this thread doesn't die.
(Not before me, that is. )






[edit on 24-12-2009 by Vanitas]

reply to post by Vanitas


In terms of the alignment of each individual church, i have read that in some instances the churches in question (i.e the 12/13/14 Untersberg Churches), may be aligned so that on certain days, they align with the rising sun. The "certain day(s)" i refer to is, i believe, the days on which "Maria" is celebrated, i.e the Virgin Mary. A number of the churches are dedicated to "Maria" (Maria Eck, Maria Gern, the Grossgmain church (Maria Wallfarhtskirche)). I haven't been able to verify this, but i am sure it's possible somehow (i think you can view sunrises, etc on Google Earth if you have the up to date version, from any location). I think the date is in September.

This is probably irrelevant in terms of the alignments i was seeking, although it may be relevant to the whole picture.

reply to post by BlueOrb


Oh, absolutely!
But one always has to keep in mind that many churches were built on the site of older churches (that is why I mentioned "patrocinies" in one of my earlier posts - I was referring to possible ORIGINAL patron saints of each of the churches). A church may have been re-dedicated, but the main orientation axis would, of course, stay the same.

Anyway: the days relevant to the Virgin Mary would be March 25th, August 15th, and September 8th.

Glad to see this thread moving again...






[edit on 28-12-2009 by Vanitas]

reply to post by Vanitas


Thanks for bailing me out.....it's September 8th i read about!

I believe on that date there is the big parade/event at the Grossgmain church where the priest on the recent film is in residence, and i'm sure it is in honour of "Maria". In fact, i think i recall it was featured in the film.....I'm going to have to watch it again now......

The only way to keep this thread alive is to keep contributing. Sometimes it may seem trivial information, but occasionally it will be something that will spark something in another member to contribute to the ongoing research.

Nevertheless, i shall continue to spark away merrily to myself and do my bit.

I really want to know more about the Templar connection in the area - White Eagle mentioned that one of the churches in Berchtesgaden itself has something to do with the Templars - i shall revisit this snippet and see what i can find.

The problem here (as you well know!), is too many avenues of research, and not enough time to do it justice.

But Im not going anywhere....but then again you know that!

reply to post by Vanitas


And another thing......August 15th is the date that the supposed "Time Portal" in the Mittagsscharte is meant to open.

Also the date that the 3 people went missing and turned up in Egypt, i seem to recall.....

Hmmmmm.....yet another avenue opens?

reply to post by BlueOrb

And another thing......August 15th is the date that the supposed "Time Portal" in the Mittagsscharte is meant to open.

Indeed it is.
(And it has been mentioned here, back when...
I don't think anyone listened, though.
And why do you think I chose it for my visit? :-)
HINT: I was looking for a free ride to Egypt. )

And a certain mass that White Eagle has mentioned on his forum (when the double rainbow appeared) happened on March 25th, if I am not mistaken (but I could be).
EDIT: Which of course, is not surprising or "spooky" in any way, just an ordinary event of the religious calendar. I mentioned it simply because he sounded somewhat surprised by it.

As for the templars, they were all over the place. I was just trying to remember where I had seen a map of their churches and other sites across Europe. But it doesn't matter anyway, as it should be easy enough to find. (I hope!)

Meanwhile, here is a link to a book that I have NOT read so far, so I cannot really recommend it or anything, but it certainly looks like a good addition to any library.

Encyclopedia of the Knights Templar


Anyway, I am very glad to see you back here.

(As for myself, I've been trying to "spark" this thread so many times in the past few days that you may as well call me Sparky... )
















[edit on 28-12-2009 by Vanitas]

Firstly, while making this post, can I apologise to another member whose research outside of this thread is crossing over with or complimenting mine. They haven’t posted their findings here, and in my making the following post, I will probably spill the beans about their post. It’s not intentional, but unavoidable. In doing so, I merely seek to keep this thread – which has turned into a good collection of intelligent, relevant research – alive and (fairly) well.

OK…….so a few posts back we returned to the subject of the “Iron Door” legend, at Hallthurm. To recap, the legend goes that at various times, but not constantly, an iron door appears, which offers an entrance into the Untersberg. It also has links to being a “Time Portal”.

Further research on this subject has led to the “discovery” of a cave entrance in the area mentioned in the legend (near to the old fortress), from which warm air emanates, as if the mountain is “breathing”. Now undoubtedly, this is a natural phenomenon, with differing air pressures inside and out, air circulating through the mammoth cave system in the mountain, etc, but I think this could be from where the legend of dragons living in the mountain could stem from. People in days gone by, who could not explain such phenomena scientifically, may have attached the dragon explanation to it to explain what they do not understand (I mentioned this previously with regard to then Pied Piper of Hamelin story). Interesting, nonetheless – It is as if the mountain itself is breathing, and taking on a living form. No wonder, then, that in times gone by, and indeed now, certain groups either worshipped or had a great deal of spiritual affinity with mountains.

A little more research, and the well timed mishap of two mountain walkers getting lost on the mountainside in bad weather on December 31st, has revealed another cave, also near to Hallthurm, but higher up the mountain. This cave is a little bit more interesting, as the photo used for the report of the rescue of the two mountain walkers clearly shows a red coloured flow from inside the cave. Red coloured water can often belie the presence of Iron Ore deposits in the land that the water is draining from…
Yes. Iron. As in…..Iron Door?

Tenuous link, you are probably saying to yourself right now. And that’s what I would be thinking too.

However. Even more research (someone has been very busy), reveals that again, in legend, there is a cave on the Untersberg at the mouth of which, “Wild Women” were sometimes seen, dancing naked amongst other things.

The name of the cave? “Die eisernen Thuer”. (The Iron Door).

So, when the legend speaks of the Iron Door at Hallthurm…..does it actually refer to the CAVE known as the Iron Door, as opposed to some mystical iron door that appears from nowhere? I think YES. (I would add, I have no evidence whatsoever, this is just my hunch at the moment).
Taking this line of thinking a bit further, I revisited the legend of Lazarus Gitschner and the monk. This was covered way, way back in this thread.
In a new description of the whole Lazarus and the Monk inside the mountain story, I found it described as follows (in German):

“Da kamen sie zu einer eisernen Thür. Diese machte der Mönch auf. “ (“There they came to an Iron Door, which the monk opened”)
( from: www.wfg-gk.de...)

There were 12 doors in the story of Lazarus, each leading to one of the 12 “Untersberg Churches”.

This then, got me thinking even more.

What if the 12 doors are actually 12 caves?

I believe often in then storytelling from generation to generation, which is effectively how history, and specifically local history was “recorded” before everyone could write, computers, TV, etc, things that were difficult to explain, as ignorance could offer no explanation, were described in more poetic, or simplistic terms. Thus, is the true story of Lazarus, one where a monk, with secret knowledge of time portals in caves in this mountain, took Lazarus to each cave, and made use of the portal to show Lazarus? And when recorded for posterity, in what was probably initially a verbal passing of the story from person to person, the caves became magical doorways (after all, the word PORTAL means doorway….).
If you go with this theory, of caves and time portals, then I think we have 2 possible current locations. The “Eisernen Thur” cave near Hallthurm, and the cave in the Mittagsscharte, which is also meant to exhibit time portal abilities, specifically on 15 August.

I am sure, with a lot more research, that records (in whatever form), will exists somewhere that will give pointers to further locations (i.e caves), that could add to this list. These may be parish records (if they exist in the area), possibly in church records themselves, or maybe even word of mouth stories that have made into the 20th or 21st Century among local people.

Again, I apologise if this post has either stolen someone’s thunder, or stepped on their toes. But the above is a mixture of my thoughts and research and their hard work locally, and for my part, this is where I want the information to be considered and discussed, and hopefully, with input and comment from others, expanded upon.
The above is also discussed in German at

forum.alpenschamanismus.de...
And
forum.alpenschamanismus.de...

The two forums are both one’s that I participated in recently on this subject, with White Eagle, the member whose hard work and further research has led to this line of enquiry. And I don’t believe the research has reached a conclusion yet. I believe there may be much more to come in due course.

reply to post by BlueOrb



Is that itinerant blind spot that seems to be afflicting this board on the loose again...?

This is an AMAZING post.

(Well yes, my vocabulary isn't as rich as it used to be... Blame it on the echo in here.

)

Well done, Blue Orb!

And BTW, I don't think anyone int their right mind could feel you impinged on their findings.
Luckily for all of us, this thread reveals the mental processes that led to some of the findings that may prove to be very helpful indeed to any researcher of the Untersberg mysteries.






[edit on 20-1-2010 by Vanitas]

Originally posted by Vanitas
But some might also argue that, in time, worship sort of "accumulates" and heightens the pre-existing "sacred" energy of the place.

Id agree that there is an inherent energy-field to any place and then worship/projecting-importance has even more energy accumulate there.

Actually, reading this, I cant believe I forgot to visit any churches in the area, because in such churches one usually feels very real upliftment by the mere energy-field of the place.

reply to post by BlueOrb


With that post you possibly just advanced our understanding of this whole thing. Thanks also to WhiteEagle and the crew over at "Alpine Shamanism"

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/29f596d21422.jpg[/atsimg] Tunnel beneath "Eagles Nest"

While many people call the entire area "Hitler's Eagle's Nest," it actually refers to just the mountaintop chalet.

In the 1920s, just out of prison, he checked into an alpine hut up here to finish his book, Mein Kampf. Because it was here that he claimed to be inspired and laid out his vision, some call Berchtesgaden the "cradle of the Third Reich."

*

reply to post by Skyfloating



Nice picture!

Would you be interested in a picture of the same tunnel, with an Orb on the ceiling, that is clearly....and i mean clearly.....sitting BEHIND one of the electrical junction boxes, thus proving that in fact Orbs do exist (well, some, in any case), and are not reflections from dust (as a reflection would have to be a complete circle, wouldn't it...)

If not, please ignore this post!

reply to post by Skyfloating


Yes, I think it can be observed in many places of worship around the world.
I have never been to Medjugorje, but I am told the energy is very "palpable" there, even for people who aren't necessarily religious.

And I have noticed this phenomenon myself, at Assisi. I was only visiting there as a tourist (not as a pilgrim).
There was a special "energy" pervading the place that was quite strong (but "soft" in the way it felt). I wasn't prepared for it, so I was quite startled.

And there is a place, also in Italy, that I discovered almost by chance, which had an amazing "happy" energy that took me by surprise. But that's yarn for a different thread...

BTW, John of Damascus wrote quite well about this, that's why I included the link in one of my earlier posts.

With that post you possibly just advanced our understanding of this whole thing. Thanks also to WhiteEagle and the crew over at "Alpine Shamanism"

Agreed!




[edit on 20-1-2010 by Vanitas]

reply to post by BlueOrb


I would be interested!
Does that count?

Originally posted by BlueOrb
Would you be interested in a picture of the same tunnel, with an Orb on the ceiling, that is clearly....and i mean clearly.....sitting BEHIND one of the electrical junction boxes, thus proving that in fact Orbs do exist (well, some, in any case), and are not reflections from dust (as a reflection would have to be a complete circle, wouldn't it...)

I knew you were withholding profound revelations

Please Provide!

reply to post by Skyfloating


Ok….so this is not off topic, since it relates to the phenomena of the area, and besides, this is one of the pictures that led to my looking into the whole orb thing, which in turn led me to this thread (and in my haste, also led to my name on here…!

To explain the photos, and what happened – I visited the Berchtesgaden / Obersalzburg area in August 2008, and did the whole Berghof/Kehlsteinhaus/Documentation Centre/ Hotel zum Tuerken thing.

While I was in the tunnel heading towards the elevator to go up to the Kehlsteinhaus, I turned and took a photo looking back to the entrance. This is the photo number 1, below. I then noticed (when it previewed), that there were several of those “dust particle reflections” (I didn’t refer to them as orbs at that time!), and so tried to take another (photo number 2), to see if it came out any better. It didn’t, and so I shrugged to myself and got in the elevator, forgetting about it.

(Note about the elevator – There was no “blondie” standing in the middle, refusing to budge, although I believe this did occur sometime later… )

After I returned back home to the hotel, I was flicking through the pictures on preview, and I noticed the "Berghof Orb". I won’t dwell on that particular orb, as I covered it way back, but that led me to review the Kehlsteinhaus pictures again, as I immediately remembered that they had similar “defects”.

As I was reviewing picture 1, aside from the numerous orbs in the foreground, after a while, I noticed one that appeared to be sitting up at the top of the tunnel. At first I thought it was part of the electrical wiring for the lights, fire alarm, smoke alarm, or whatever. But when I zoomed in, I was somewhat amazed to see it was an “Orb”. (See picture below – Orb is circled in red).

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d74670a8d816.jpg[/atsimg]

I then remembered that I had taken another shot immediately afterwards, and reviewed that too.

I was amazed to find that the “orb” was still there, in the exact same position, and still sitting up there “behind” the item fixed to the ceiling. This is picture 2. Taken approximately 15 seconds after picture 1.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/997c8f543cf0.jpg[/atsimg]

It may not appear too obvious on this forum and at this resolution, so here is a close up:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e50e97e54434.jpg[/atsimg]

It’s clearly there. It can’t be a reflection, caused by the flash and a digital camera (as the reflection would have to be round, circular, whatever. It could not reflect in such an irregular shape.

My own personal opinion, is that “Orbs” do exist. But they are not ET’s, mini spaceships, or any such thing. Some are dust particles, etc, without a doubt, but some are something more.

My thoughts are, that they are balls of ENERGY. Plasma energy. Naturally occurring, and mostly invisible to the naked eye, until they are charged on some way by atmospheric electrics, telluric currents, or other similar sources of power. Electrical energy will naturally form itself into a ball, or sometimes rod (think ball lightning it’s a massive ball of energy).

I did have a couple of communications with a professor of physics, who basically agreed with what I thought these were – Energy.

Also – compare a picture of an Orb with a picture of a Plasma lamp. They are strikingly similar.

And I want one, but can’t find one over here at the moment……

reply to post by Vanitas


Of course it does!

And you know it!