Keeping secrets and suppressing knowledge is a good thing

Let's call it the utopia in the middle of the bell curve then, the utopia of peace and prosperity for all. I didn't mean the end of all human problems, just a fundamentally better human society, which is possible. Chaos is not an imperative.

reply to post by Skyfloating

Originally posted by Skyfloating
I think that whoever it is that is in power, thinks we are stupid and not ready for the full truth.

No offence of course, but as you said it yourself in a way that whoever it is that is in power and think that we are stupid is really not that far from the truth and even I think that the absolute majority of the people are in relation with that particular subject absolute NOT ready for the FULL truth in my humble opinion.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
If we find a bag with 1 million Dollars somewhere in the woods, the chances are 50% (or more) that we´d keep it secret from others.

IF I find that bag somewhere in the woods in my hometown I bet you 1 thousand Dollars that the chances are far less then 50% that we´d keep it secret from others because most people are absolute not capable to keep secrets or even resist that so seductive call of so much money and they will blow there cover very fast during too fast speeding with there new Porsche 911 GT2 and such.

I'd prefer humans not keep secrets from each other. I really don't care what kind of chaos or destruction comes from knowing the truth. We get plenty of that already while the secrets are withheld from us. When the truths are revealed whatever chaos may come will only be temporary, because I believe eventually humans will adapt to the truth, and unite in a way that just isn't possible as long as lies are being told as truth.

Originally posted by ThePiemaker
I'd prefer humans not keep secrets from each other. I really don't care what kind of chaos or destruction comes from knowing the truth. We get plenty of that already while the secrets are withheld from us. When the truths are revealed whatever chaos may come will only be temporary, because I believe eventually humans will adapt to the truth, and unite in a way that just isn't possible as long as lies are being told as truth.

What lines (if any) do you draw to separate the concept of "secrecy" from that of "privacy"?

At what point can one say "it's none of your business"? Is your real identity a secret from ATS? Or a matter of privacy that you'd rather not share? (Or maybe you're fully comfortable listing your name, address & social security number on the internet? I know that works for some folks...)

reply to post by JoshNorton


I don't care all that much about privacy. The main reason to want privacy is fear. Fear of being judged for who you really are rather than being judged by the persona you present to the world.

This Is where the saying 'Its sometimes better to keep the ones you love in the dark' comes into play,
I agree with you,
for the good of people you should sometimes hide things, but for a conspiricy should not even take place.

To the OP - anyone can make up imaginairy scenarios to support their argument.

My thesis - Secrecy in an open and free society comprised of free individuals is mainly used against the populace.

Ie -


Once upon a time there was a clandestine group of wealthy industrialists, bankers, war-profiteers, fascists and zionists who met in secret to discuss the implementation of a worldwide fascist Orwellian regime. Knowing full well that the population of Earth would not like what these traitors to humanity had in store for this planet, they comandeered control of all massive communication networks such as the media and flooded the masses with a continuous psy-op war based on subliminal programming messages to blindly obey and never question their assumed authority.

Due to the secret nature of their workings, and the fact that any attempts to expose these terrorists was generally met with ridicule, assassination, or institutionalisation, the masses continued blindly along the path to debt slavery, until one day, the iron curtain was pulled back, debts were called in and every man woman and child was stripped of their individual liberties and the right to freedom and were to be henceforth enslaved in work camps and implanted with mandatory mind control technology.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Unfortunately many dont think twice when calling for "full disclosure", "total transparency" and "the end of all secrecy".
[edit on 9-8-2008 by Skyfloating]

I don't think that most of us are against private groups with secrets. However, a government with secrets is not, by definition, democratic. A democracy is where the people are the government. If the people know and the government doesn't, then the people are not the government, and you don't have a democracy.

If the people can't handle the truth, so be it. Give it to them anyways. Yes you are right there are consequences for telling the truth. The problem is that much more often the consequences of telling lies are far greater. History has shown that we cannot trust our government to decide when the truth should be hidden.

This all sounds well and good with the examples you presented, however it stands to reason that the vast majority of secrets aren't kept for noble reasons.

In general, deception is seldom done with good intentions.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
To the OP - anyone can make up imaginairy scenarios to support their argument.

My thesis - Secrecy in an open and free society comprised of free individuals is mainly used against the populace.

Ie -


Once upon a time there was a clandestine group of wealthy industrialists, bankers, war-profiteers, fascists and zionists who met in secret to discuss the implementation of a worldwide fascist Orwellian regime. Knowing full well that the population of Earth would not like what these traitors to humanity had in store for this planet, they comandeered control of all massive communication networks such as the media and flooded the masses with a continuous psy-op war based on subliminal programming messages to blindly obey and never question their assumed authority.

Due to the secret nature of their workings, and the fact that any attempts to expose these terrorists was generally met with ridicule, assassination, or institutionalisation, the masses continued blindly along the path to debt slavery, until one day, the iron curtain was pulled back, debts were called in and every man woman and child was stripped of their individual liberties and the right to freedom and were to be henceforth enslaved in work camps and implanted with mandatory mind control technology.

here here and remember peeps zionists come in all denominations, and some can be manipulative anti-semite's themselves while hiding behind the jewish people.

the thing with some secrets being good to keep is a bit of a tricky situation (catch 22) Because, the more you keep people in the dark about what's really going on in the world, the more ignorant they will be, and thus the less truth they can handle (w/o going thru a uncertain and possibly violent period) so it's a catch 22 IMO. Saying keeping secrets is good, makes more and more sense when a population is given a lower level of truth and education and a high level of propoganda. This is not a good thing to willingly praise, it opens the door for MORE Corruption and lies. I think the inability of people to accept truth is a symptom of the bigger problem ( poor education and propoganda that they are taught and exposed to via media to keep people less informed and more easy to manipulate, indebt, and profit from as well as control by corporations and gov't.

in order to address the problem at this stage (in a large scale way) would be tremendously challenging and would require multiple personalities that the masses look upto (i.e Bono, tiger woods, (some big time world renown soccer star, michael jordan, some high ranking military member, some big name corporate ceo with a heavy heart, some popular female artist (young and old) and should a group like this get together and say hey look , we've dealt with lies and propoganda for so long that we have decided to take a united stand and we ask for everyone to resist becoming violent but understand the world is going down the wrong path and their has been an agenda to establish a one world fascist gov't and we want you to voice your opinions (people of the world ) against this. their is a hierarchy of political and financial and corporate intrests leading this, and alot of people acting as mouth pieces are ignorant of their role, or just doing what they are told for fear of losing their job and not being able to feed their families. I think this could reach a very large and wide audience and be seen as genuine, not sure who would prodcast this, maybe PbS? but obviously these figures would have to develop those opinions and have the courage to speak up

[edit on 9-8-2008 by cpdaman]

[edit on 9-8-2008 by cpdaman]

oh you mean holding back the secrets of awareness and interconnection and love we should be teaching in school. Thats just how holograms work. All parts are intertwined and important. how about the other planes they are hiding.

Their secrets that hold down consciousness are the reason we arent ready for the technology and getting along. They are purposely teaching us negative fear mongering ideas like christianity. Polluting the food and water to hold down consciousness to enslave us.

So, their excuse that we arent ready for the truth is all part of the big lie. People believe whatever you preach to them nonstop. If they were programming us since babies about altruism and taking are of others and sharing etc......Natl security souldnt be a damn issue.

hmm...

if I came across something in grandmother's back yard that "if my grandmother knew, then she would go nuts and lose all reason to live"

sure I would hide it, but for selfish reasons and it would be manipulation

others later might use the same secrecy for their own ends, like swindling her out of her land.

secrecy can be good, in the hands of Plato's benevolent leader

otherwise we can just all bend over

and IMHO there is no evidence of a benevolent leader

Anyway...I came up with this thread last night while lying around trying to understand the people who keep secrets, trying to understand their mentality, trying to understand cover-ups.

I keep many secrets. The main one is that I believe I can communicate with other beings. I'd never go any further than that because I fear others might try to do the same. I can tell you it is not easy and can drive one insane. I look at others who are totally oblivious to the notion of other life than us and I feel good about it as they seem to enjoy themselves, having fun living their lives. There are those that are not happy ofcourse but that is almost always because of some mundane cause.

And you know what? They are partially right. Sometimes we are stupid. If we find a bag with 1 million Dollars somewhere in the woods, the chances are 50% (or more) that we´d keep it secret from others.

Not as stupid as the person who lost a million dollars tho

[edit on 10-8-2008 by Dragonfly79]

reply to post by Skyfloating


Great post. One of the best I have ever read here. I agree with you 100 percent. I think that there are times when we must have secrets for National Security. Other times to keep people from going crazy and burning down a town. I just think that over time they can release the grip a bit. Look at Iraq. They pull out 40 tons of yellow cake and keep it secret for 3 years. While the left attacks and uses it for ammo during the election.

Do not throw pearls to the swine

I recall once revealing something I happened to know to a group of people on an Internet Forum. The revelation was a waste in many senses. Of the people I disclosed the piece of new and formerly unknown information (the following are only rough estimates):

60% couldnt care less or didnt believe it
30% slandered and threatened me
9% Plagarised it, presenting it as their own
1% Appreciated it


While its the dream of every journalist or investigator to come upon information that is new or formerly hidden, if its too much of a "stretch" for their belief-system, there´s no point whatsoever in revealing it.

[edit on 10-8-2008 by Skyfloating]

Originally posted by JoshNorton
I've given secrecy a bit of thought over the last couple of months... I'd like to write a paper on the Scottish Rite 4th Degree "Secret Master" and the value of secrecy when viewed as a virtue rather than a pariah.

Could you share more on "secrecy as a virtue"? Sounds interesting.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Could you share more on "secrecy as a virtue"? Sounds interesting.

I haven't fully fleshed out my position on the matter yet, but the gist of it is similar to how most Masonic oaths regard the secrecy—the ability to keep someone else's secret at their request is an honorable attribute. There may be an issue of not having enough vocabulary to distinguish "secrecy" from "the ability to keep a secret". If a person tells me something in confidence, they've shown their confidence in my being able to keep it confidential. (Chose that wording to again show a lack of vocabulary...) Secrecy, secret, confidential, trust, private... all these words contain multiple meanings and usages. If I know someone else's private hopes, dreams, indiscretions, or bank code, and I'm honor-bound not to spread that knowledge without first receiving permission to do so...it could be a challenge. There's some inherent temptation to spill the beans... perhaps to prove that I know something that someone else doesn't know. Knowledge of a secret as a way to think you're better than someone who doesn't know it. But to prove that you know it, you must share it, and by sharing it, it's no longer a secret, or at the very least, the person you've spilled it to now is in on it. To quote the old shampoo commercial "an she told to friends, and they told two friends, and so on, and so on..."

Oh, this is surely a topic you can not generalize (as most things in life).

For me this is a classical 'DEPENDS'!

Depends on what the secret is about ...
Depends on what can be the consequences ...
Depends on how many people and other things (like nature, enviroment, etc.) are directly, longterm and shorterm affected ...
Weighing out the auspicious and inauspicious aspects of a disclosure ...

And it's alot about 'the right time' to release and reveal too.

For me ... I am in many situations quite well with:
"I don't have to know everything."
But there are surely other 'secrets' that could become some kind of 'ballast' for the keeper or a hindrance/missing piece for the one(s) who could understand and know.

And to be honest ... I believe there are not so many secrets as people do believe to exist and there are secrets that do simply not belong in everyones hand ... just for the reason they are not ready to handle it or it's none of their business so ... -> IT DEPENDS!

As a rule, I always trust in some kind of higher force that everything significant is and can be revealed when it's meant to be ... and if not it's for reason of protection from the negative consequences.

New ATS-Thread: The Horrific Consequences of Disclosure