Keeping secrets and suppressing knowledge is a good thing

The title is meant to be provocative. To be more precise it should read:

Keeping secrets and suppressing knowledge can sometimes be a good thing

I write this because there seems to be a consensus in conspiracy-theory that secrets and suppression of knowledge are always and categorically a bad thing. This belief is accepted without question by most people in the field.

In order to show how this belief cannot be entirely true, a few analogies:

Once upon a time there was a scientist who invented a bomb that could destroy the entire world in 5 seconds. Shocked at the possible consequences should this become known, he decided to keep his finds forever a secret and act to suppress any knowledge leading in the direction of someone else discovering it. Introducing certain knowledge to people who are not ready for it can have disastrous consequences

Once upon a time there was a woman who lived with her grandmother. This woman was an Ufo-logist who wanted full disclosure about UFOs and extraterrestrials, immediately. Frustrated with the secrecy she one day learned to summon UFOs at will. She did so and a UFO appeared in front of their house. It was too much for her beloved grandmother, who died of a heart-attack on the spot.

Once upon a time there was a President who had the keys in his hands to improve the lives of Millions of his people. But before implementing those keys, he made a mistake of having an affair with someone other than his wife. If this would become public he would have to step down before making those positive changes. So he kept the affair secret - the enemies of his plans would only use those secrets to force him to step down.

Once upon a time there was a group of men who met in secret in order to avoid a witchhunt that was being waged against them by a tyrannical and evil dictator. This tyrant called for total transparency, no more secrets, so that he could have full control over his kingdom. This secret society was the last ray of hope in the fight against tyranny, but they had to remain in the secret so that they could continue to operate.

Unfortunately many dont think twice when calling for "full disclosure", "total transparency" and "the end of all secrecy".



[edit on 9-8-2008 by Skyfloating]

reply to post by Skyfloating


I stopped reading when you replaced the absolute title with the relative interpretation. Sure, sometimes keeping secrets can be a good thing. But it's not a good principle to build a society on and causes huge problems.

If we didn't have "secrets" we would not be using oil and would be on our way to a utopian society, where all we would have to worry about is our own integrity, not scarcity.

Its only good when you can trust the leaders to do it for our own good. Its like a parent hiding certain things from a kid out of love or protection.

But governments are not like that. They hide everything they can get away with and only share what they must. Unlike parents, they are motivated by power and greed.

Thats the difference.


[edit on 9-8-2008 by Copernicus]

The problem lies when keeping secrets, allows those in the know to keep power over us, and creates animosity and distrust.
I can understand some things being kept secret, out of the interest of National Security. However, that term has gained a much broader range, and is now used as an excuse for many things..some utterly ridiculous.

Originally posted by Zepherian
reply to post by Skyfloating

 

I stopped reading when you replaced the absolute title with the relative interpretation.

Then you missed some compelling arguments pro-secrecy and might continue promoting "full disclosure" without thinking about the consequences.

[edit on 9-8-2008 by Skyfloating]

Originally posted by Copernicus

Its only good when you can trust the leaders to do it for our own good. Its like a parent hiding certain things from a kid out of love or protection.

But governments are not like that. They hide everything they can get away with and only share what they must. Unlike parents, they are motivated by power and greed.

Thats the difference.

Anybody actually read the post?

Originally posted by RubyGloom
The problem lies when keeping secrets, allows those in the know to keep power over us, and creates animosity and distrust.
I can understand some things being kept secret, out of the interest of National Security. However, that term has gained a much broader range, and is now used as an excuse for many things..some utterly ridiculous.

Reasons of National Security? OK.

But what about the reasons given in the opening post...

I actually did read the OP and I fully understand your point. There are quite a few things that have been released over the decades that shouldn't have been. Had those scientists kept how to make an atomic bomb secret how different would the world be? Had camera crews not been sent to the last few wars to document everything, would it have ended long before now or would worse things have happened? There's no way to know. But I believe that there are many things that people demand disclosure about nowadays that they have no business demanding.

Thanks for actually reading the OP. Im pretty certain it goes against the grain on a website that goes against the grain.

...which reminds me of how someone once offered to tell me what exactly goes on behind the scenes of a chinese restaurant...

...to which I answered: "I dont want to know. Ignorance is Bliss".

However, if we had an open truth based society where defending veracity were the first priority we would know who the bad people were, as there would be no curtain for them to hide behind. This would mean that we could use technology to it's fullest potential without fear of the negatives. We would develop medicine without the b-lines into biological warfare, we would develop energy sources without b-lines into centralized petroleum based economies, etc.

We can't stop information, it has a life force that wants to be set free, the universe is based on information growing, so to speak. Everytime we try society grows perverse. It is not knowing that is the base of danger, it is allowing that only a few know and go unchecked. Because of this situation they try and learn more whilst at the same time creating a society where the rest of us know nothing, levereged on their own knowledge.

In short: the more the average man knows the more he knows to look out for.

The people that really want to know are the most fit to learn truth.

As for your first analogy, the scientist had better alerted everyone because what he discovered, others will eventually too and use it against them. Better to be prepared for that than to keep silent about it. But to tell the general public rightaway would only cause worries about something they can't do anything about.

As for your second analogy, I find it unlikely such a wise and intelligent woman (shouldn't you be if you can summon alien beings on will?) didn't take the necessary precautions to inform her grandmother first. She obviously shouldn't have kept it a secret but gradually prepare her for the alien encounter. Still I agree with your point that if there is truly information about alien encounters being withheld, it is likely done to prevent a paranoia outbreak as people are not prepared for such a thing (not only heart attacks but suicides also).

On the 3rd, if it was really such a good idea, he would be impeached and then someone else with power would go ahead and implement it anyway.

And lastly, religious persecution is something of all ages in every country where there is a minority that thinks different and gets enslaved/exploited by the majority because of that. In those cases it is better to keep your religious beliefs to yourself and meet in secret. That also goes for any 'out of the ordinary' belief because (the majority of) people tend to avoid or ridicule those that think different.

Hi Skyfloating very interesting thread. strrd and flggd.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
The title is meant to be provocative. To be more precise it should read:

Keeping secrets and suppressing knowledge can sometimes be a good thing.

I agree with you, suppressing certain knowledge can sometimes be a good thing, but also a bad thing.
I hope I made myself clear enough.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Once upon a time there was a scientist who invented a bomb that could destroy the entire world in 5 seconds. Shocked at the possible consequences should this become known, he decided to keep his finds forever a secret and act to suppress any knowledge leading in the direction of someone else discovering it. Introducing certain knowledge to people who are not ready for it can have disastrous consequences

Introducing certain knowledge to people of who you think are ready for it can have the same disastrous consequences.
I mean to say that from the moment you share such knowledge with other people even if you think they are ready for it or highly trustworthy it comes after some time always in the wrong hands.
So in this case, that he keeps his finds forever secret was the second best choice, but destroying all the evidence of it was in my opinion the best choice.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Once upon a time there was a woman who lived with her grandmother. This woman was an Ufo-logist who wanted full disclosure about UFOs and extraterrestrials, immediately. Frustrated with the secrecy she one day learned to summon UFOs at will. She did so and a UFO appeared in front of their house. It was too much for her beloved grandmother, who died of a heart-attack on the spot.

Well to tell you the truth, I suspect that when it really comes to a full disclosure and to a worldwide Alien show off there will be more then one, so I hope they do it the way it happened now with very small steps.
So in this case, that they keep this phenomenon secret in the very beginning was absolute understandable, but they must have started with those small steps much earlier in my opinion so many people would be spared of heart-attacks.
So in this case, keeping this phenomenon so secret and for so long as they did was not wise in my opinion.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Once upon a time there was a President who had the keys in his hands to improve the lives of Millions of his people. But before implementing those keys, he made a mistake of having an affair with someone other than his wife. If this would become public he would have to step down before making those positive changes. So he kept the affair secret - the enemies of his plans would only use those secrets to force him to step down.

So in this case, that President made despite his exiting secret frivol adventure the best choice in my opinion and keep it all secret.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Once upon a time there was a group of men who met in secret in order to avoid a witchhunt that was being waged against them by a tyrannical and evil dictator. This tyrant called for total transparency, no more secrets, so that he could have full control over his kingdom. This secret society was the last ray of hope in the fight against tyranny, but they had to remain in the secret so that they could continue to operate.

So in this case, I would keep it secret for as long as possible too if I where one of those men.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Unfortunately many don’t think twice when calling for "full disclosure", "total transparency" and "the end of all secrecy".

Skyfloating, you made your point very clear to me and in many cases you are absolute right, but there is always a dilemma in choices and those choices depents on the intentions who makes them.
It looks sometimes indeed better to keep certain things secret and especially in the world we live in, but definitely not all.
There is always the possibility that because certain things are being kept secret on and on the results are more destructive then if those secrets where in small steps disclosed.
Here is one such example, we didn’t need fossil fuels for decades but those technologies are still kept secret for certain reasons for decennia now.
The question is, if they keep them secret forever what will become of this planet and us all?
So is it wise to keep it secret, know in my opinion.

To answer your first question,

Keeping secrets and suppressing knowledge can sometimes be a good thing.

despite my probebly bad example I must say yes.

Great and interesting new avatar.
[edit on 9/8/08 by spacevisitor]

[edit on 9/8/08 by spacevisitor]

Originally posted by Zepherian
However, if we had an open truth based society where defending veracity were the first priority we would know who the bad people were, as there would be no curtain for them to hide behind.

I see what you´re saying. Once we can trust each other. But at current, what you are saying amounts to total orwellian surveiilance without any privacy whatsoever.

In short: the more the average man knows the more he knows to look out for.

Yeah...true that.

Originally posted by Dragonfly79
The people that really want to know are the most fit to learn truth.

Nice thinking.

As for your first analogy, the scientist had better alerted everyone because what he discovered, others will eventually too and use it against them. Better to be prepared for that than to keep silent about it. But to tell the general public rightaway would only cause worries about something they can't do anything about.

Hm....good rebuttal.

As for your second analogy, I find it unlikely such a wise and intelligent woman (shouldn't you be if you can summon alien beings on will?) didn't take the necessary precautions to inform her grandmother first. She obviously shouldn't have kept it a secret but gradually prepare her for the alien encounter. Still I agree with your point that if there is truly information about alien encounters being withheld, it is likely done to prevent a paranoia outbreak as people are not prepared for such a thing (not only heart attacks but suicides also).

Another good point. SLOW DISCLOSURE rather than a psychological shock is what is needed.

Thanks for the interesting post.

Originally posted by spacevisitor
So in this case, keeping this phenomenon so secret and for so long as they did was not wise in my opinion.

I think the constant broadcasting of science-fiction movies and TV-Series is a type of "disclosure" in that it conditions people not too be too shocked or surprised when it happens.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
So in this case, that President made despite his exiting secret frivol adventure the best choice in my opinion and keep it all secret.

Anyway...I came up with this thread last night while lying around trying to understand the people who keep secrets, trying to understand their mentality, trying to understand cover-ups.

I think that whoever it is that is in power, thinks we are stupid and not ready for the full truth.

And you know what? They are partially right. Sometimes we are stupid. If we find a bag with 1 million Dollars somewhere in the woods, the chances are 50% (or more) that we´d keep it secret from others.

I've given secrecy a bit of thought over the last couple of months... I'd like to write a paper on the Scottish Rite 4th Degree "Secret Master" and the value of secrecy when viewed as a virtue rather than a pariah.

You've given some good examples.

Well, the cat is out of the bag regarding the surveillence society. Either done by the state or done by each other, that is going to happen regardless, I suggest we think on how to make it work for positive empowerment of people instead of just for elite opression. A democratic police state were laws apply to everyone can feel a bit heavy, but it does allow for the flushing out of the criminals that want an opressive police state, so it can work in our interest. Take the example of jimmy justice, who is going around New York filming traffic cops and their traffic infractions. More situations such as these need to start happening, till it comes to a point where it overwhelms the officials ability to repress it and forces the system to clean up. Privacy is still on the laws, so if people defend theirs there will be a balance down the line imo.

Also I suspect that there may be such a system up in nature already, ever heard of the akashic records?

Originally posted by Zepherian
reply to post by Skyfloating

 

I stopped reading when you replaced the absolute title with the relative interpretation. Sure, sometimes keeping secrets can be a good thing. But it's not a good principle to build a society on and causes huge problems.

If we didn't have "secrets" we would not be using oil and would be on our way to a utopian society, where all we would have to worry about is our own integrity, not scarcity.

AMEN Preach on .

Ok I will bite.....Almost as if this lure was tied on the line just for me. Yes secrecy is a good thing in many ways. Much of what we are taught or learned in life was pretty much all lies. By design, ease and in many cases ignorance of the creators these lies were built into the human knowledge base.

To come clean and have full disclosure will turn the human race upside down and slowly destroy and erode the lives of everyone. Many people bear great secrets this very day. They are with the choice to destroy evidence of the secrets, work the rest of their lives finding a path to entrust them to, or disclose. The extreme gravity of the secrets demands in most cases they never be disclosed and if disclosed within secrecy to another the ability to destroy the trail and connectivity should the secret be exposed.

So here I put the secrets in your hands to decide what to do. You now have physical evidence to prove that everything we know about ourselves as a race is wrong. Do you disclose? Or do you do the best thing you know and entrust it to a society or tradition for future generations when what you have may not be so damaging and destructive?

Quite a topic. Star and flag.

This is a great OP!

I have no doubt that on a personal level, we would be happy for secrets to be made public as long as they are not our own. This is not a question of morality per se, it is difficult to measure moraliity, right or wrong, in absolute terms.

An earlier responnse indicates an implicit linkk between the concept of a "utopian society" and what would essentially be absolute truth, however, since Utopia will be different for every man, just as heaven or hell woould be, full disclosure would not create a utopia but chaos.

Secrets have developed with mankind for a specific reason, for the benefit of the keepers of secrets and, possibly with altruistic belief, the benefit of others unawware of the secret.

Personally, I believe in the age old wisdom of "To know and to keep silent", the secret that *we* keep may be the one protecting us.

[edit on 9-8-2008 by SugarCube]