Chemtrail / Contrail Experiment?

lol who knows, maybe using haarp in an area will light up the trails and cause some sort of effect.

Something else I was wondering about. The volume of particulate that is required for an electromagnetic/ beam weapon effect would be fairly large you would think? I wonder how long these chemicals and metal particulate would stay in the upper atmosphere?

[edit on 5-8-2008 by Swingarm]

reply to post by weedwhacker


These image are from the Evergreen Aviation web site. The urban image is an illustration From Evergreen. It is their concept of dumping on the city, not mine. I did not photoshop anything, it is their simulated photo illustration. Please remember courtesy is mandatory.

In the marketing of the Evergreen Supertanker, they mention this aircraft is a great choice for "Federal Government" operations, sensitive security and environmental missions. Challenging Homeland Security Missions, ability to neutralize chemical attacks on major population centers, etc.

www.evergreenaviation.com...

I do not know what chemtrails are or who is spewing them, I am searching for clues. I know you disagree, but I wonder if sensitive security missions, could include blanketing the sky with a grid of chemtrails, which then turn into cloud cover, so secret missions can go on undetected. These missions may be for spying, experimental aircraft, haarp, mindcontrol, ufo's whatever. I do not like my sky clouded up on purpose. I do not like chemtrails. I think we might want to look into many possibilities to how and why tptb are doing it.

I do not like to discuss ufos, space travel and exploration and topics like that...so I do not go to those threads and tell all those members how crazy I think the topic is. If you do not like the discussion, pick up your toys and go home. Why do you bang your head against a wall telling us how stupid we are?

I know you are not stupid. We all know how smart you are and we appreciate kind and intelligent debate, but you attack so much. If you do not have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.

reply to post by Missing Blue Sky


OK...MBS....I saw the link to Evergreen that you provided.

Do you see what they are advertising? Evergreen, as a Cargo Carrier, is getting trounced by UPS and FedEx....they wish to use their existing fleet of a few B-747s to branch out, hopefully, into other markets.


That's all it is. When they advertise 'Weather Modification' they are basically advocating cloud seeding....and very old, tried and true technology, to make rain.

Sorry, no conspiracy here. It is desperation, and marketing, to stay in business.

I have wound up being pretty disappointed witht this thread. Davidifty tried to start a discussion that precluded the opinions of those who don't believ that chemtrails exist. The Op was not asking if they exist but how to test for chemicals contained in them. What could have been an interesting discussion has deteriorated to focusing on weedwhackers illustrious career as an airline pilot. Weedwhacker has successfully hijacked this thread, turning it into a complete waste of time.

Originally posted by Missing Blue Sky
reply to post by weedwhacker

 

I do not know what chemtrails are or who is spewing them, I am searching for clues. I know you disagree, but I wonder if sensitive security missions, could include blanketing the sky with a grid of chemtrails, which then turn into cloud cover, so secret missions can go on undetected. These missions may be for spying, experimental aircraft, haarp, mindcontrol, ufo's whatever. I do not like my sky clouded up on purpose. I do not like chemtrails. I think we might want to look into many possibilities to how and why tptb are doing it.

Interesting post. I'm going off my own thread here but this may have some mileage.

Weather Seeding would give our governments ideal cover for testing state of the art military equipment they want to keep quiet. What we cant see we cant report!

reply to post by missvicky


Thanks Miss Vicky....my own thread has kind of gone completely off the point. I value the arguments within this thread and I think the conversations around Chemtrails include valueable info for us all to digest.

The whole point of this thread was try and find out ways we can prove this as PHOTOS dont do the trick either way. It doesnt debunk or prove. Its a little different if we were to post images of UFO's, but with chemtrails its completely different as most of us probably dont know, no matter what we do for a living.

By potentially finding out if the air/rain is toxicated when these trails appear, then its a start!

Im no expert, I have no fancy equipment to record rain droplets from 10,000 feet or air samples within the contrails. But Im willing to have a go and take rain samples from my area and have them analysed. Im kind of following my nose and who knows what the results will show.

My motivation is simple - I want to make sure my wife and kids are safe where i live. Wouldnt you all want to know what you breathe? (says me who is still smoking )

Davidifty,

I went online tonight looking for tests like you mentioned in your OP. I found an interesting bit of research at Chemtrail Central. He researched by observation, tracking known flights, measuring temp and humidity, etc. Here was his conclusion and the link. The link has all his data and graphs.


From source:

"The goal of this research was to determine if there was a type of trail that was inconsistent with normal contrails, especially in regard to increased persistence. What was found is that highly persistent trails that last for many hours were seen above Houston, TX on a majority (60%) of observable days during the data collection period. However during this time period none of the 46 Flight Explorer confirmed contrails observed persisted over 30 minutes and most contrails were under 30 seconds of persistence. Additionally it was discovered that the jets responsible for leaving highly persistent trails that last for hours did not ever appear on the Flight Explorer and were documented for 8 separate instances, including one instance with two jets in formation. These unidentifiable jets were found to produce a contrail that was consistent with confirmed contrails during the periods when they were not leaving any trails. Highly persistent trails were often seen in the form of relatively short strips , as well as large areas of cirrus aviaticus clouds but on rare occasions have been seen in totally unique grid and wheel formations."

www.chemtrailcentral.com...

[edit on 8/6/2008 by Missing Blue Sky]

[edit on 8/6/2008 by Missing Blue Sky]

here are the joint use airports in the USA.


Joint Civilian/Military
(Joint-Use) Airports
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

« Military Airport Program

The FAA also works with the military departments on the joint-use of existing military airports when a civil sponsor wants to use the military airfield.

Joint-Use Military Airfields as of March 6, 2002

Air Force

AF Plant 42, Palmdale, CA
Barter Island LRRS, Barter Island, AK
Charleston AFB, Charleston, SC
Dover AFB, Dover, DE
Eglin AFB, Valparaiso, FL
Grissom ARB, Peru, IL
Kelly/Lackland AFB, TX
March ARB, Riverside, CA
Pt. Lay LRRS, Point Lay, AK
Scott AFB (Mid America), Belleville, IL
Sheppard AFB, Wichita Falls, TX
Westover ARB, Chicopee, MA

Army

Blackstone AAF, (Ft. Pickett), VA
Camp Guernsey AAF, Guernsey, WY
Dillingham AAF, Waialua, HI
Forney AAF (Fort Leonard Wood), MO
Gray AAF, Ft. Hood/Killeen, TX
Grayling AAF, (Camp Grayling), MI
Libby AAF (Ft. Huachuca), Sierra Vista, AZ
Sherman AAF, (Ft. Leavenworth), KS
Sparta/Fort McCoy (Sparta), WI

Navy

MCAS Yuma, Yuma, AZ

Military Use Only

Military
Air Force Bases

CONUS Air Combat Command CONUS Air Mobility Command AETC
Barksdale AFB, LA
Beale AFB, CA
Cannon AFB, NM
Creech AFB, NV
Davis-Monthan AFB, AZ
Dyess AFB, TX
Ellsworth AFB, SD
England AFB, LA
Holloman AFB, NM
Indian Springs AAF, NV
Langley AFB, VA
Minot AFB, ND
Moody AFB, GA
Mountain Home AFB, ID
Nellis AFB, NV
Offutt AFB, NB
Seymour Johnson AFB, NC
Shaw AFB, SC
Tonopah AFS, NV
Whiteman AFB, MO
Andrews AFB, MD
Charleston AFB, SC
Dover AFB, DE
Fairchild AFB, WA
Grand Forks AFB, ND
MacDill AFB, FL
McChord AFB, WA
McConnell AFB, KS
McGuire AFB, NJ
Pope AFB, NC
Scott AFB, IL
Travis AFB, CA
Altus AFB, OK
Columbus AFB, MS
George AFB, CA
Gila Bend AAF, AZ
Goodfellow AFB, TX
Keesler AFB, MS
Kegelman AAF, OK
Lackland AFB, TX
Laughlin AFB, TX
Little Rock AFB, AR
Lowry AFB, CO
Luke AFB, AZ
Mather AFB, CA
Maxwell-Gunter AFB, AL
Randolph AFB, TX
Reese AFB, TX
Sheppard AFB, TX
Tyndall AFB, FL
Vance AFB, OK
Williams AFB, AZ

Europe / Mediteranean USAFE Persian Gulf CENTAF Pacific PACAF
Ankara AS
Araxos AB
Aviano AB
Bitburg AB
Comiso AB
Decimomannu AB
Einsiedlerhof AS
Geilenkirchen AB
Ghedi AB
Hahn AB
Hellenkion AB
Incirlik AB
Izmir AS
Iraklion AS
Keflavik NAS, IC
Lajes Field, AZR
Lindsey AS
Morón AB
RAF Alconbury
RAF Fairford
RAF Lakenheath
RAF Mildenhall
RAF Molesworth
RAF Upwood
Ramstein AB
Rhein-Main AB
San Vito del Normanni AS
Sembach AB
Soesterberg AB
Spangdahlem AB
Stavanger AB
Zaragoza AB
Zweibrucken AB

Burgas AP
Mostar AB
Taszar AB
Tuzla AB
Ahmed Al Jaber AB KW
Ali Al Salem AB KW
Al Dhafra AB UAE
Dhahran AB SA
Doha IAP QA
Eskan Village SA
Fujairah IAP UAE
Jeddah AB SA
Khamis Mushayt AB SA
Khobar Towers SA
King Khalid Military City SA
Kuwait IAP KW
Masirah OM
Al Musnana AB OM
Muharraq BH
Prince Sultan AB SA
Riyadh AB SA
Seeb AB OM
Shaheed Mwaffaq AB JO
Shaikh Isa AB BH
Thumrait AB OM
Tabuk AB SA
Taif AB SA
Al Udeid AB QA Andersen AFB
Bellows AFS, HI
Eielson AFB, AK
Elmendorf AFB, AK
Galena Airport
Hickam AFB, HI

Cheong Ju AB
Kimhae AB
Kunsan AB
Kwangju AB
Osan AB
Pusan AB
Sachon AB
Suwon AB
Taegu AB
Yechon AB

Kadena AB, JP
Misawa AB, JP
Okuma, JP
Yokota AB, JP

Diego Garcia BIOT
Paya Lebar AB, SG

Utapao AB, TH

Clark AB, PL
Wallace AS, PL

AFMC AFSPC AFSOC
Arnold AFB, TN
Brooks City-Base, TX
Edwards AFB, CA
Eglin AFB, FL
Griffiss AFB, NY
Hanscom AFB, MA
Hill AFB, UT
Kelly AFB, TX
Kirtland AFB, NM
Los Angeles AFB, CA
McClellan AFB, CA
Newark AFB, OH
Robins AFB, GA
Tinker AFB, OK
White Oak, MD
Wright-Patterson AFB, OH
Buckley AFB, CO
Clear AFS, AK
F. E. Warren AFB, WY
Malmstrom AFB, MT
Patrick AFB, FL
Peterson AFB, CO
Schriever AFB, CO
Vandenberg AFB, CA
Duke Field, FL
Hurlburt Field, FL

Other
Bolling AFB, DC
USAF Academy, CO

Air National Guard
ANG Base ANG Station
Atlantic City ANGB, NJ
Bangor ANGB, ME
Barnes ANGB, MA
Battle Creek ANGB, MI
Berry Field ANGB, TN
Bradley ANGB, CT
Costa Mesa ANGS
Duluth ANGB, MN
Ebbing ANGB, AR
Francis Gabreski ANGB, NY
Fresno ANGB, CA
Gowen Field ANGB, ID
Hancock Field ANGB, NY
Kulis ANGB, AK
McEntire ANGB,SC
McGhee Tyson ANGB, TN
Muñiz ANGB, PR
Otis ANGB, MA
Pease ANGB, NH
Rickenbacker ANGB, OH
Roslyn ANGS, NY
Seattle ANGB, WA
Selfridge AGB, MI
Stewart ANGB, NY
Springfield ANGB, OH
Stratton ANGB, NY
Thompson Field ANGB, MS
Volk Field ANGB, WI
Will Rogers ANGB, OK
Allen C. Thompson Field, MS
Alpena County RAP, MI
Birmingham IAP, AL
Borinquen AP, PR
Burlington IAP, VT
Byrd Field, VA
Capital MAP, IL
Channel Islands ANGS, CA
Charlotte/Douglas IAP, NC
Cheyenne MAP, WY
Dannelly Field AGS, AL
Des Moines IAP, IA
Ellington Field, TX
Forbes Field, KS
Fort Smith MAP, AR
Fort Wayne IAP, IN
Great Falls IAP, MT
Gulfport-Biloxi IAP, MS
Harrisburg IAP, PA
Hector IAP, ND
Hensley Field/NAS Dallas, TX
Hulman RAP, IN
Jacksonville IAP, FL
Joe Foss Field, SD
Key Field, MS
Kingsley Field, OR
Lambert-St. Louis IAP, MO
Lincoln MAP, NE
Mansfield Lahm AP, OH
Martin State AP, MD
Memphis IAP, TN
Moffett Field, CA
Nashville IAP, TN
New Castle County AP, DE
North Highlands ANGS, CA
Ontario AGS, CA
Peoria AP, IL
Pittsburgh IAP, PA
Portland IAP, OR
Quonset State AAP, RI
Reno-Tahoe IAP, NV
Richmond IAP, VA
Rosecrans MAP, MO
Salt Lake City IAP, UT
Savannah IAP, GA
Schenectady AP, NY
Shepherd AGS, WV
Sioux Gateway AP, IA
Sky Harbor IAP, AZ
Standiford Field, DY
Toledo Express AP, OH
Truax Field, WI
Tucson IAP, AZ
Tulsa IAP, OK
W.K. Kellogg AP, MI
Willow Grove NAS, PA
Yeager AGS, WV

Air Force Reserve Latin America
AFRES Base AFRES Station
Dobbins JARB, GA
Grissom JARB, IN
Homestead JARB, FL
Fort Worth JRB, TX
March JARB, CA
New Orleans JRB, LA
Westover JARB, MA
Bergstrom ARS,TX
General Mitchell ARS, WI
Minneapolis-St. Paul JARS, MN
O'Hare ARS, IL
Niagara Falls JARS, NY
Pittsburgh JARS, PA
Richards-Gebaur ARS, MO
Youngstown JARS, OH
Aruba
Comalapa AB
Curacao
Howard AFB
Manta AB
Soto Cano AB
Tres Esquinas AB

As we can see there are many.

reply to post by Swingarm


Thanks Swingarm. Now we know where to address our complaints.

reply to post by Missing Blue Sky


Nice find Missing Blue...cheers. I will have a good read.

Originally posted by davidifty

My motivation is simple - I want to make sure my wife and kids are safe where i live. Wouldnt you all want to know what you breathe? (says me who is still smoking

)

I can assure you that it isn't anything coming from the skies above that cause me to choke when I walk down the streets.

As well as not flying, I don't drive either.

Originally posted by Essan
I can assure you that it isn't anything coming from the skies above that cause me to choke when I walk down the streets.

You must be breathing air that doesn't come from the sky then. Where do you get your air from Essan? Or are you suggesting that cars and lorries are the source of airbourne trails?

Originally posted by TrueLight

Originally posted by Essan
I can assure you that it isn't anything coming from the skies above that cause me to choke when I walk down the streets.

You must be breathing air that doesn't come from the sky then. Where do you get your air from Essan? Or are you suggesting that cars and lorries are the source of airbourne trails?

Hmmm, let me see. I'm walking down the street and a car 3 feet away is belching out fumes. Must be that plane flying six miles overhead that's causing me to choke, eh?

If you worry about cigarette smoke what's worse? Which will you notice? Someone smoking in the garden next to you? Or someone smoking on a balcony 30 floors above you?

As for airborne trails - they may cause some warming but they don't directly affect my health any more than any other high altitude ice crystal does. And if anything in them does fall to earth in my neighbourhood, it's likely from a trail left over Alabama 6 weeks ago.

Originally posted by Essan
Hmmm, let me see. I'm walking down the street and a car 3 feet away is belching out fumes. Must be that plane flying six miles overhead that's causing me to choke, eh?

In that instance, no. This is a thread about chemtrails , not vehicle fumes. I was assuming you were making your comment on topic.

Originally posted by Essan
If you worry about cigarette smoke what's worse? Which will you notice? Someone smoking in the garden next to you? Or someone smoking on a balcony 30 floors above you?

Oh definitely, the person on the same level as me....

Unless their cigarettes were loaded with metal particulate. In which case I would be much more concerned about the person above me.

Best Wishes.

reply to post by Missing Blue Sky


Sorry you feel that way.

I tend to get rattled by the 'chemtrail' debate, especially when people attempt to blame commercial airliners. I like to dispel ignorance on the subject. There have been, in the past, a few threads that needed clarity.

The OP posited a way to test, hopefully to either confirm 'chemtrails', or to conclusively show that they are nothing other than normal contrails.

Only reason I chimed in was, I saw some disinformation showing up. See, how ironic....I am accused of being a DISINFO agent, when all I'm doing is dispelling mistaken beliefs, through increased understanding. Go figure....

reply to post by weedwhacker


"when all I'm doing is dispelling mistaken beliefs, through increased understanding. Go figure...."

Weedwacker you are not coming from fact. You are every bit as guilty of conjecture as anyone else on this subject. You are showing trademark signs of ImeNOTyou syndrome.

reply to post by Swingarm


Well, SA....I see your point, I think. It is difficult, in a forum, to explain things the same way you could face-to-face.

We have others posting, who happen to be meterologists, and thusly scientists, who say basically the same thing I try to impart....stuff 'sprayed' above 30,000 feet will not fall directly down on the surface of the Earth, right below.

Allow me to change gears, and use an analogy: A volcano will spew particulates into the atmosphere....a big eruption will likely be carried, by upper winds, to many places around the globe. The initial eruptian, at ground level, is devastaing only for the immediate vicinity. I think it's called a 'pyroplast' (I could look that up, and will edit if I'm wrong).

My point is, Mother Nature can spew FAR, FAR more amounts into the atmosphere than any puny man-made airplanes can.

A B-767 weighs, 'empty', a few hundred thousand pounds. THEN, you add the weight of the fuel, say about 110,000 pounds, that gives a duration in flight of (based on 3,000 lbs/hr per engine) of about 18 hours. Of course, that is to fuel exhaustion, and assumes no reserves.

OK....now, a B767, depending on model, has a max take-off weight of about 450,000 pounds.

So, just for grins and giggles, that means (and these are very rough estimates) about 165,000 pounds of something to 'spray'. If you use the weight of water, at 7.5 pounds/gal, then that equals about 22,000 gallons. Of course, they aren't 'spraying' water, so anything else would have a higher density, and would weigh more, per gallon.....

What would this amount have any effect on? It's like throwing a resort-sized swimming pool into the sky, from 12,000 feet.

Sorry if it bursts anyone's bubble........facts are facts, not conjecture.

reply to post by weedwhacker


WEED
"We have others posting, who happen to be meterologists, and thusly scientists, who say basically the same thing I try to impart....stuff 'sprayed' above 30,000 feet will not fall directly down on the surface of the Earth, right below. "

So? What does this prove? Have we established every reason for the spraying? If spraying is being done on such a large scale does this point even matter?

WEED
"My point is, Mother Nature can spew FAR, FAR more amounts into the atmosphere than any puny man-made airplanes can. "

Yes, but can Volcanoes select the make up of what they spew? Man can do that then use this with other technologies from the ground. I don't see your point ?


WEED
"A B-767 weighs, 'empty', a few hundred thousand pounds. THEN, you add the weight of the fuel, say about 110,000 pounds, that gives a duration in flight of (based on 3,000 lbs/hr per engine) of about 18 hours. Of course, that is to fuel exhaustion, and assumes no reserves.

OK....now, a B767, depending on model, has a max take-off weight of about 450,000 pounds.

So, just for grins and giggles, that means (and these are very rough estimates) about 165,000 pounds of something to 'spray'. If you use the weight of water, at 7.5 pounds/gal, then that equals about 22,000 gallons. Of course, they aren't 'spraying' water, so anything else would have a higher density, and would weigh more, per gallon....."

I have thought about this also. To me what needs to be understood is, what is the length of time the suspended particles remain in the atmosphere? How much spaying is done daily? The weakening of our immune systems I suspect is secondary. There could be several levels of intent for spraying. Do I claim to know? No, I am only here to raise questions, and share possibility.

[edit on 6-8-2008 by Swingarm]

[edit on 6-8-2008 by Swingarm]

[edit on 6-8-2008 by Swingarm]

Sorry if any were offended.

I see something that I know about, and had the temerity to post? Sheesh, my opinions and comments should be discarded for that, because I happen to know something?

Getting accused of de-railing a thread, that is the unkindest cut. When I bring facts into a discussion, it is called 'de-railing'??? Or, as another said, "attacking"?

Bringing facts into a discussion is NOT an attack. Anyone who thinks so should look up the meaning of 'attack'.

As I said earlier, I could explain this much better over a table in a conversation, than I can in a forum where words can be taken out of context, so easily......