One third of 'british Muslim' students say killing for islam is ok.

the article says nothing about the circumstances in which muslims feel it is acceptable to fight/kill in the name of islam. This is why the article is such deceptive rubbish. For example, the quran says:

60:8-60:9:

Allah (God) does not forbid that you do good and make justice for those who do not fight you in the religion or drive you out from your homes. Indeed, Allah loves those who do justice. Allah only forbids your friendship with those who fight you in the religion and drive you out from your homes and back those who drive you out. And who befriends them, such are wrongdoers.

In another place the quran states:

22:39:

Permission (to fight) is given to those who are being attacked, because they have been wronged. And surely Allah (God) measures out help for them.

and to further clarify:

(2:190-193):

Fight in the path of Allah (God) those who fight you, but do not aggress. Surely Allah does not love the aggressors. And fight them where you come upon them, and drive them out from where they have driven you out, for persecution is a worse thing than fighting. And do not fight them at the Sacred Mosque (in Mecca) unless they fight you there, but if they fight you, then fight them back. That is the reward of the rejectors. Then if they cease, so Allah is All-Forgiving, Gentle. And fight them until there is no more persecution and the religion is for Allah (God). But if they cease, so let there be no hostility except against wrongdoers


From this we can see that there are there are limits, constraints and indeed a purpose for killing in the name of islam - for protection, to preserve life and to end persecution.

Indeed the quran says

5:32

Because of that We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone killed a person not in retaliation of murder, or (and) to spread mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed all mankind, and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind. And indeed, there came to them Our Messengers with clear proofs, evidences, and signs, even then after that many of them continued to exceed the limits (e.g. by doing oppression unjustly and exceeding beyond the limits set by Allâh by committing the major sins) in the land!.[]

Further in the Quran we see, in no uncertain terms, the level with which killing is abhorred.

17:33

Thou shall not kill any person - for GOD has made life sacred - except in the course of justice. If one is killed unjustly, then we give his heir authority to enforce justice. Thus, he shall not exceed the limits in avenging the murder; he will be helped.

This highlights the fact that people should not be killed unless, for example, bringing a murderer to justice or executing of criminals and that if people are murdered or killed unjustly for any reason, their kin/heir has the right to demand justice.


It is quite obvious that muslims believe in the justice, the rule of law, the right of a person to defend themself if attacked, the right of the occupied or persecuted to fight back against invaders or tyrants and the right of those who order society and protect against criminal forces to punish criminals and miscreants. A muslim would be perfectly coinciding with their religion to believe that killing within the limits of the afforementioned restrictions, as god has commanded them, would be acceptable.

Similarly you'd find jews who'd want to stone adulterers and execute people for various things etc on the basis of the torah and talmud, etc. Only christians have no basis for ever killing anyone as their r eligion teaches them to forgive everyone, turn the other cheek, only cast the first stone if they themselves are sinless etc. The concept of just war etc as pushed by the church is an invention of priests which has little basis in the bible.

BUT, killing someone in self defense, or in the defense of a loved one, or as punishment for a horrible crime is not the same as killing someone for religious purposes, or killing someone for Islam or in the name of Islam.

How do you interpret "fight you in the religion" anyway? Religion is an ideology, the only way to fight you in the religion is to disagree with your religious beliefs. That is not a phyisical fight, but an ideological fight, and no one should kill another because of religious beliefs.

So when the Koran states

22:39:

Permission (to fight) is given to those who are being attacked, because they have been wronged. And surely Allah (God) measures out help for them.

Does being attacked include fighting you in the religion, because it sures seems that this could be interpreted this way.

And what this next verse clarifies to me is that fighting to defend ones religious beliefs is acceptable.

(2:190-193):

Fight in the path of Allah (God) those who fight you, but do not aggress. Surely Allah does not love the aggressors. And fight them where you come upon them, and drive them out from where they have driven you out, for persecution is a worse thing than fighting. And do not fight them at the Sacred Mosque (in Mecca) unless they fight you there, but if they fight you, then fight them back. That is the reward of the rejectors. Then if they cease, so Allah is All-Forgiving, Gentle. And fight them until there is no more persecution and the religion is for Allah (God). But if they cease, so let there be no hostility except against wrongdoers

When you consider the concept of "fight you in the religion" put together with "Fight in the path of Allah (God) those who fight you" added with "for persecution is a worse thing than fighting", sounds to me like the Koran is saying that it is alright to fight with those who disagree with your religious beliefs.

So fighting is the reward of the rejectors? Hmm, what are these rejectors rejecting? The religion of Islam? Added with "fight them until there is no more persecution and the religion is for Allah (God)." That sounds like a direct command to fight those who disagree with the religion of Islam, or Muhammad for that matter.

Sounds to me like the Koran is saying that anyone who disagrees with your religious beliefs is fighting you, and therefore you should fight them back. "fight them where you come upon them".

This leaves the reasons to fight pretty wide open for Muslims.

Hey, Anon - I feel you were seeking feel-good scriptures from the Qur'an, but since the Qur'an is supposedly Allah speaking, the book is a jumble out of context. Later teachings superceded earlier, more peaceful teachings. Islamic theologians assert that the violent ninth Sura, including the Verses of the Sword, abrogates no fewer than 124 earlier and more tolerant verses, some of which you quoted. Since the ninth Sura was the last revealed, this supercedes earlier teachings.

"Whatever verse or revelation We abrogate or cause to be forgotten We bring a better one." - Bukhari V6B60N8

Consider life under Muslim law for Christians, Jews, agnostic, atheists, or even Wiccan. This is what was taught recently at a Mosque in Mecca by Sheikh Salem Al-Gamdi,
"if the infidels [non-Muslims] in accordance with the conditions set out by the Prophet - there is nothing wrong with it provided they pay Jizra to the Islamic treasury. Other conditions are . . . that they do not renovate a church or monastery, do not rebuild ones that were destroyed, that they feed for three days any Muslim who passes by their homes . . . that they do not imitate Muslims in dress and speech, nor ride horses, nor own swords, nor arm themselves with any kind of weapon; that they do not sell wine, do not show the cross, do not ring church bells, do not raise their voices during prayer, do not incite anyone against the Muslims, and do not strike a Muslim . . . If they violate these conditions, they have no protection."

And you can't just learn about Islam by reading the Qur'an. You must read the writings of Ishaq's Sira, the biography of Muhammed. "Surely in the Messenger [of Allah] you have a good example." Qur'an 33:21

Then, you must read the multiple translations of all these books, including the Qur'an to get a real feel for exactly what was said, and within context.

Allah's Apostle said, 'I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.''

"Do the bastards think that we are not their equal in fighting? We are men who think that there is no shame in killing." Ishaq:489

"When you meet unbelievers in the battlefield, strike off their heads and , when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly." Qur'an 9:123

"A man came to Allah's Apostle and said, 'Instruct me as to such a deed as equals Jihad in reward.' He [Muhammed] replied, 'I do not find such a deed."
Bukhari V5B52N44

"The Prophet said, 'A single endeavor of fighting in Allah's cause is better than the world and whatever is in it." Bukhari V4B52N50

"He said, 'Fight them so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. Allah must have no rivals." Ishaq: 324

"Jihad is compulsory." Muslim C40B20N4676

"Men, do you know what you are pledging yourselves to in swearing allegiance to this man' 'Yes. In swearing allegiance to him, we are pledging to wage war against all mankind."

This is a tiny taste of the teachings of Islam. In the United States, a major portion of the east coast was practically paralyzed by one Muslim sniper and his driver. John Muhammed. Just wait until 5% or 10% of your population goes on the warpath. Talk about weeping and gnashing of teeth!

According to the strict teachings of Islam, if you engage in Jihad and kill non-Muslims, you are a good Muslim. Thus, there is no such thing under strict Islamic law that permits a moderate Muslim. All good Muslims are what the rest of us may call a murderous fanatic. The others? They'll wait until they are called upon by their leaders. Or they too, will die.

The fact is ..it only takes a few with an ideolgy they will die for to dominate many......and as I have said in another post "educate us in your country..we will find your weakness..and we have an agenda!!"....at ground level ..(and this is my opinion and observations) Islam rules by fear.....and hatred!! and people WILL tow the line if it comes to that mentality dominating....the fact they will massacre their own...Look what the quran says about the infidel!!

the men manipulate their ideology and agenda!..Islam for me is something from the dark ages!!...don't get me wrong...I would never advocate killing or victimisation!! thats wrong!! very wrong...! people are just people!!...but these people really stick together..we in the UK are the commmon enemy!!

I have had Muslim friends and they have been nice people...but when it gets to religion,,,their god is greater

People are sheep I think ...and frightened sheep at that!!...

So in my country there is now a threat from ..(even just a few)..that we are educating...(and I bet they even got funding ) ....... and my taxes pay for that!! what a bummer...!!!


I reckon its a part of the plan!! must be!!

reply to post by shuck


AND in this country UK we taught the value of freedom of thought and... to question!!!

The Islamic culture...DO NOT QUESTION!! Allah said this!! Allah said that
( peace be upon him !) One mans iterpretation ( with an agenda ....the catholics have been at it for ages)

Islam is the religion of the poor and uneducated!!...they might have thought of the numeral 0..and gothic arches!!..it stopped there I think!!

At some point the learning about being a human being stopped!!

The fact that i am paying my taxes for their education...really upsets me!!

And of corse this is all my own opinion!!...just what I see...

absolutely ridiculous.

1) Who exactly is "one third of british Muslim students"?
2) Since when did 2/5=1/3?
3) Who conducted the survey?
4) Is the source reliable?
5) Did they somehow survey every single Muslim student in Britain?
6)what kind of idiot would believe this idiotic statistic?

Is nothing sacred ?Now this-



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