Unprepared hikers!

Have a look at this picture. Its mind boggling the sheer naked stupidity of some people who head off into the mountains.

The weather was dangerous beyond belief. Cloud layer was about 15 feet off the ground, the wind was driving the rain across at horizontal at times, and the temp at altitude was 4' C.

So there I was in goretex trousers and jacket, heavy boots and I had to take this picture because other wise you wouldn't believe me. I was 5 miles from any where at this point, and glad of warm kit.... The Von Trapps just skipped past me in soaking wet jeans and light polycotton jackets... FFS, what is it with these people?

Talk about 'this is how NOT to do it!'.

Cloud layer and hiker pics.





You can see how dark and overcast it was in that shot too.

[edit on 18-7-2008 by Dan Tanna]

Man, did they even make it back?

The stupidity of some hikers is nothing short of madness. Every time we get a bit of bad weather in the Highlands (all the time!) someone goes missing. Usually daft city folk that have done a couple of trails up the Campsie hills and think they can tackle the big ones

I'm not a hiker myself, but I've got a friend that's into it big time, and i've seen the amount of clothes she puts on for climbs even when the weather is good at ground level.

But Dan, aren't you aware that nature is never cruel? It's a little spotted fawn bending over to get a cool refreshing drink from a clear babbling brook...

Seriously, I see this all the time, although in a less life-threatening way. City folk move out here to be 'one with nature'. They move in and set up home, then realize that nature has included mosquitos, bees, wasps, flash floods, bad roads, hot temperatures, occasional power outages, and a serious lack of pizza delivery, all at no extra charge. Then they decide to 'improve' things by wanting to turn our nice little country getaway into a minor version of city life: bus service, cable TV, leash laws, chlorinated water, poison sprayed around to kill the parts of nature they don't like, complaints about the neighbor's chickens. Then comes the isolation as the neighbors who actually want to live here get upset. The police usually have to make a few trips out to the newcomers' house to set them straight ("No, ma'am, Bob does not have to make his pigs urinate on the other side of his property. Yes, ma'am, I know it smells, it has smelled for thirty years. No, ma'am, we cannot arrest his rooster for crowing at 6:00 AM") until finally, they move back into the city where they belonged in the first place and someone else gives it a try.

Don't get me wrong, there are funny aspects to it. Like when someone finds the local deer processor and sees all the blood for the first time. Or when they realize how dirty chickens really are while munching down on a bucket of KFC. I even heard one guy swear off ever eating potatoes again because he found out they grew in the dirt.

I'd say overall, one out of 100 actually knows what's out here and wants to be a part of it.

The existence of mankind alone is proof that 'survival of the fittest' is a fairy tale. S&F

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck



Red,
I am just simply utterly stunned at times I really am. People don't realise just how quickly at altitude the weather can and does change. This pic is of a storm hitting, and believe me when I say that we were IN the cloud layer gettint malleted by wind and rain. This shot was taken after I just jumped into a bothy for a wind break and some food.



Navigating back was a bit hairy along the ridges, but the Von Trapps, they were just bloody mental. I don't know if they made it to their destination or not, but I did hear SaR over head later on (about three hours later) and meet the MR team heading out.

reply to post by Dan Tanna
I don't know. Common sense would tell me to stay out of a situation like that. So why does it not seem to work with others? You see a storm, and yet you walk into it? You see a cloud sitting right at ground level, and yet you think, I dunno, it's pretty? Sheesh, some people should never be allowed out of the city limits for their own protection.

I really do hope they got out of there OK. But I actually feel more sorry for those who had to try and rescue them than for the hikers themselves. And I feel angry at myself for feeling that way.

Anyway, great thread, thanks for pointing the obvious out for those who don't have a clue. If one person reads this and later thinks "Maybe it's not a good idea to run toward the tornado", it was well worth it.

TheRedneck

You can blame some of it on the theme park mentality. I see so many people doing things that are just plain stupid. People unprepared for weather are just a few of them. I can,t tell you the times I have seen people get between a sow bear and her cubs, let alone a doe and her fawn, and then wonder why the were charged. Just reading some of the post on the survival column mae me laugh sometimes. Thank God I,m a country boy.

respectfully

reluctantpawn

Can we Please quite with the CITY FOLK BASHING Please. Ime getting really sick of it. Guess what folks. City people are people to. Just because you happen to live in the city does not automatically make you stupid. I have seen just as many Dumb country folk.

People will talk about "Oh city folk cant survive in the Country. Well lets see a country boy survive the hood. Not trying to be a Jerk here but I hear it all to often and its a unfair stereo type.

Any body who goes into that situation unprepared weather from the city suburbs or country is not Educated. People are people no matter ware they live.

reply to post by angryamerican
Sorry if I offended you. The folks I am bashing are those who come out here with some kind of crazy expectations about everything being all sweet and nice and clean, and then, when it ain't so, they try to change us. I'll bash anyone like that. I live here because I like it, and I do not want it turned into a suburb.

That said, sure, good people live in the cities. It seems to be that most of the bad people there too. I guess that's the price you must pay for all the conveniences.

Well lets see a country boy survive the hood.

I did, thank you very much. It really wasn't all that hard, just a bit frustrating. Apparently city thieves have a very slow learning curve, until that shotgun goes off. The police seem to have a faster learning curve; they decided to leave me be real quick.

In short, before I left, you could park your car on the street in front of my house, lock it up, and by morning you'd be lucky to have much of the sheet metal left. Pull it into my driveway, and you could leave it unlocked all night long with no concerns.

TheRedneck

People will talk about "Oh city folk cant survive in the Country. Well lets see a country boy survive the hood. Not trying to be a Jerk here but I hear it all to often and its a unfair stereo type.

Any body who goes into that situation unprepared weather from the city suburbs or country is not Educated. People are people no matter ware they live.

Sorry Angry,
this isn't a city folk bash per se, its stupid people bash.

Stupid people take up time that could be used for urgent people i.e. those who have suffered an accident and need extraction.

Being stupid and unprepared is not an accident, its negligence. One thing I will say though, the closer you live to nature, the more you respect it. Living in Cornwall for two years showed me this; People drowned every summer in the surf, and yet never a local. You know why? those that live the sea respect the sea. Same I feel with mountains and wilderness areas.

This post is for all those who are reading a go 'hu? what would you carry then?'.

So here it is, listed in importance factor in my own opinion.

1) Map & Compass. Never one without the other, and learn how to use both from experts.

2) Waterproof top and bottoms with hat and gloves in the pockets. Never ever venture into the mountains without these. Day time temp today in the Cairngorms at altitude was 5'C and heavy rain. Thats hypothermia territory.

3) Food and water. You get lost or hit bad weather? your going to get hungry fast. Never forget some high energy food stuff.

4) Shelter. A bivvie bag / basha / survival bag. If it gets so bad you need to sit tight, get into your bag, get out of the wind, and sit it out. You'll live.

5) Whistle, torch, first aid kit & survival tin. The tins my own fall back, containing all I need for lighting fires. Fires can be used as a signal, not just a warm me up device.


If you have those 5, and have chucked in some warmer stuff i.e. a fleece, you'll have an uncomfortable night, but you will live till good weather arrives and you can move off again.

One last thing. Never, ever navigate at night with zero visibilty. I know a guy who got lost, and wandered off a 400 foot cliff face because cloud layer was floor level. Those of us sat tight lived to breath another day.

AA not bashing the city folk just the ignorant ones. Ignorance is not knowing. Just as you shouldn't ask directions in Harlem. Your right most country folk are easy pickings in the city. It all boils down to learn the turf.

respectfully

reluctantpawn

Originally posted by reluctantpawn
AA not bashing the city folk just the ignorant ones. Ignorance is not knowing. Just as you shouldn't ask directions in Harlem. Your right most country folk are easy pickings in the city. It all boils down to learn the turf.

respectfully

reluctantpawn

The fact that you cannot ask directions in Harlem is due to the animals that live there (saying that, we got plenty of these feral scum in our inner cities too.. The epidemic is spreading as well). Thats nothing to do with nature / weather / ability to use skill to survive. Thats base savagery, not skill / ability.

To misquote a certain bard ' When in harlem, act like the animals do'.

[edit on 20-7-2008 by Dan Tanna]

Yes I admit it I am a little defensive on that issue. In all the Rescue attempts my Dogs and I went on a greater majority were So called Country folk who just weren't prepared for what they were doing.

I will share a little story with you of the last time My dog and I went out before I retired.

Strangely enough This happened a few miles from my home. About 8 A.M. on a Monday Morning I got a call up. The story I got when Thor and I got on scene was pretty normal for this area except the way it ended. Some young adults and teens had a party. Lots of alcohol and I am sure more then a few drugs. Most of the people ended up spending the night because they were to trashed to get out the door let alone drive home.

One young man who was very well known in the area as a real country boy attended the party. This guy was raised and lived in the area all his life. I am friends with his Parents and his whole family They are your stereo typical country folk.

The story I was told was Chris attended the party but was not parting that night he was just getting over the flue and didn't want to push his luck. He was only there because his faience was there. Her name was April. April was parting hard that night and took it a little to far. A dear friend of There's took April home because she was the designated driver. and Chris and April had walked in from Chris's house about 4 miles miles down the road or two miles as the crow flies.

As soon as April left Chris talked to the host of the party and told him he was going to take off. This was about Two in the morning.

We dont know why Chris did it but he decided at two in the morning with out a flash light or any warm clothes decided to cut across the woods in between the two houses. Keep in mind Chris knew this area well. most of the trails in that little area of woods were put there by Chris and the boys who grew up in the house.

Chris never made it home that night. nor the next day. Monday morning at Aprils urging Chris's parents called in a missing persons. We spent two days looking for this kid. Thor wasn't the best tracker in open territory he was better suited for Collapsed building and enclosed areas, but he was all we had at the time.

We had manged to track chris about a mile into the woods staying on a winding trail. Then for some reason wich nobody seems to be able to explain he veered off. Even a few days latter we could clearly see the tracks in this area. He was turning in circles and stamping his feet in places. Like you would when you are cold. Very Very cold.

My personal theory is he thought he could make it because the moon was almost full with out a cloud in the sky at that time. It was one of those very cold near the end of summer nights when you get frost. He became very cold and started stamping his feet and turning circles in place to warm up.

After he veered off the steps became wider he was starting to jog. Keep in mind he was waring a Pair of khaki colored shorts and a tank top not the type of out fit for a cold night under the stars. We figure at the time of the veering it was probably about three in the morning. he had been walking slowly picking his way threw the dark for about an hour. About three in the morning it started to cloud up. the moon would have been going behind clouds constantly. He soon reached a area ware we could not go. It was private posted land and the owners were adamant about us feds as they called us were not going to trample there land.

So we went around and tried to pick up the trail on the other side. We latter found out that the reason we could not find the trail on the other side was because there was no trail. he went into there land but never came out.

Before we could think about calling a judge to try and get a warrant. We got a radio call. Chris had been found, on the land we were turned away from. The owners after turning us away had there own look around and found Chris floating face down in the there pond. The autopsy said Chris was clean no alcohol no drugs. It appeared as tho Chris had run into the pond and couldn't get out.

As far as we know this could have all been avoided if Chris had been carrying a flash light and at least some warmer clothes. Mind you he was not in danger of hypothermia it was cold but not that cold. but we figure the combination of no light and the cold caused him to panic. He had abrasions all over his body the type you get when your running thew the woods half dressed in darkness.

He was a country boy from a family of county boys and girls, hard core red necks.

The one truth In all the world that can not be disputed is stupidity is every ware not just the city, and panic will kill you. Chris was a very arrogant and cocky kid. he thought because he came from a family of rednecks he was invincible and wasn't shy about telling you so. He was also in every other way a good kid who didn't deserve to die.

All I am saying is ignorance is all over.

On a side note His fiance April was so despondent about his death that two weeks after the funeral April ended her own life.

So yes I am a little OVERLY sensitive about some things. Please don't take it personally, and I will do the same.

Dan I always enjoy your contributions as well as Redneck and reluctantpawn. Now I am off to go wash the egg off my face.

One more thing. There is a difference between city and slums.

[edit on 20-7-2008 by angryamerican]