Mandalas, Form Constants and Platonic Solids

This is some bizarre coincidences I have been looking into.

I tried to raise some points in another thread, but I figure I may reach more people by going more in depth with a new thread.

Primarily it deals with Mandalas, Form Constants, and Platonic Solids.
All three are geometric forms. Mandalas are geometric objects from the Dharmic faiths Hinduism and Buddhism. They are in a sense representations of the Universe. They are used in helping one meditate or enter a trance state. In other words they are what I call a Focus to help enter an Altered State of Consciousness.

Carl Jung who pioneered Analytical Psychology and such concepts as the Collective Unconscious, Archetypes and Synchronicity had this to say about Mandalas:

are all based on the squaring of a circle. Their
basic motif is the premonition of a centre of personality, a
kind of central point within the psyche, to which everything is
related, by which everything is arranged, and which is itself a
source of energy. The energy of the central point is manifested
in the almost irresistible compulsion and urge to become what
one is, just as every organism is driven to assume the form that
is characteristic of its nature, no matter what the circumstances.
This centre is not felt or thought of as the ego but, if one may
so express it, as the self. Although the centre is represented
by an innermost point, it is surrounded by a periphery containing
everything that belongs to the self -- the paired opposites that
make up the total personality. This totality comprises consciousness
first of all, then the personal unconscious, and finally an
indefinitely large segment of the collective unconscious whose
archetypes are common to all mankind.

If I understand correctly from Jung's point of view the Mandalas represent a microcosmic view of the consciousness and collective unconsciousness.

In another quote from Jung:

there must be a transconscious disposition in every individual
which is able to produce the same or very similar symbols at all
times and in all places. Since this disposition is usually not a
conscious possession of the individual I have called it the
collective unconscious, and, as the bases of its symbolical products,
I postulate the existence of primordial images, the archetypes.

Here he connects the imagery of the Mandalas with the Archetypes of the Collective Unconscious. Jung also connected the imagery with the concept of the disc of the UFO in the book Flying Saucers : A Modern Myth of Things Seen in the Skies Another oddity is the similarity of Crop Circles to mandalas.

To me this Mandala pattern, is a Universal Concept. It appears around the world and shows some kind of unconscious link. I also think they are related to Form Constants, a Universal phenomena that humans experience.

Form Constants are geometric patterns and shapes that manifest in the Mind's Eye when one enters an altered state. They can be seen while dreaming, meditating, in near death experiences, out of body experiences or hallucinations. They were first named in the 1920s by the German American psychologist Heinrich Kluver, after he studied the affects of psychotropics on the mind. The geometric patterns that would manifest in every subject.

I should also mention they are sometimes connected to Abduction reports, which has lead me to hypothesize that so called Alien abductions are events that occur while in an altered state.

I think both Mandalas and Form Constants may be connected to the concept of Platonic Solids.

Platonic Solids are geometric forms, more precisely polyhedrons. They were theorized by the Greek philosopher Plato as representing each of the Classical Elements: Earth, Air, Fire, Water, and Aether. Earth was a cube. Air was a Octahedron. Fire was a Tetrahedron. Air was a Octahedron. The Elements themselves are not actual air, earth water, and fire. They represent archetypes of paterns or phases in matter. Kind of like the concepts of Solids, Liquids, Gases, and Plasmas. The Fifth in this case could be considered Energy. If one understands the relationship between the Elements, it appears the ancient Greeks may have been very close to the idea of Mass-Energy Equivalence. Another idea is that the Aether represents Information. Many of these forms in fact show up quite often in Nature, especially in the formation of Crystals and Microrganisms. The most important of these geometric forms was the Dodecahedron, which represented the Fifth Element known as Aether or sometimes as Quintessence. To the ancient Greeks it symbolized the Cosmos itself.

Now whats really bizarre is there is the possibility that the cosmos is indeed a Dodecahedron, as seen in the article physicsworld.com...

The standard model of cosmology predicts that the universe is infinite and flat. However, cosmologists in France and the US are now suggesting that space could be finite and shaped like a dodecahedron instead. They claim that a universe with the same shape as the twelve-sided polygon can explain measurements of the cosmic microwave background – the radiation left over from the big bang – that spaces with more mundane shapes cannot (J-P Luminet et al. 2003 Nature 425 593).

In the 16th century the astronomer, Johannes Kepler made a similar conclusion about the connection between the cosmos and Platonic Solids. He designed what he called the Mysterium Cosmographicum. It was a representation of the Solar System. Personally I think he may have stumbled across something important. The model may of been inaccurate model of the planets, but I think it may have merit on a much larger scale, poossibly even on a hyperdimensional scale.

In the 19th century, Swiss mathematician Ludwig Schlafi, discovered the Hyperdimensional counterparts of the Platonic Solids. He also discovered a Sixth Form, that simply cannot be expressed as a Lower dimensional solid.
These hyperdimensional solids are known as Polychorons. The most commonly known of these is the Tesseract or Hypercube.

Bizarrely, a holy glyph known as Metatron's Cube incorporates all of the Platonic Solids in what may be a polychoronic or hyperdimensional manner.

A little bit of history on Metatron. Metatron is a title for a Celestial Being/Angel in the Jewish Talmud and in Kabalist texts like The Zohar. It is said in the writings he is like the right hand of the Divine. Some identify him with the "Archangel" Michael, Melchizedek King of Shalem, and/or the Angel of the Lord. Some carry this even further and identify him with all three of those and throw in the Greek Logos and even Jesus Christ too.

Personally I think the idea that the "Cube" could somehow be connected to the Greek concept of Logos as actually plausible. The main reason I say this is due to what exactly the Logos represented to ancient philosophers and how it may connect to Jung's concept of Synchronicity. The Logos to the ancient Greeks was a kind of cosmic order or law, almost like the Hindu and Buddhist Rta that is the foundation for Dharma or the Tao of Taoism.

This brings us full circle back to Mandalas.

I have another thread "They Come From Within" here: www.abovetopsecret.com... that explores a hypothesis I called the "Phantasmagoria Hypothesis". In it I looked at the nature of Consciousness, Reality, and various Anomalous Phenomena. I think that Jung was definitely on to something with his ideas about the Collective Unconcious, Archetypes, and Synchroncity. I had inferred that all of this was tied together by Quantum Entanglement, a Holographic Matrix, and Altered States of Consciousness.

Well now I think I may be at another threshold. Back in 1994 American theoretical physicist Michio Kaku had a book published called Hyperspace: A Scientific Odyssey Through Parallel Universes, Time Warps, and the Tenth Dimension . I had read the book in highschool and it had a profound impact on my thinking. In the book the author theorized that the forces of the universe orginate in Hyperspace or higher dimensions. Another book that had profound impact was Michael Talbot's The Holographic Universe. In which he took the theories of the Holographic Paradigm, of American quantum physicist David Bohm and Austrian neurologist Karl Pribram, and tried to explain various phenomena that resulted from it. The Holographic Paradigm theorizes that reality is holographic in nature and consciousness depends on this system.

Both theories imply that on a higher "level" of reality originate various phenomena and forces. What I'm hypothesizing is that this Objective Reality, its links with consciousness, unconsciousness, and our Subjective Reality have a fundamental hyperdimensional geometric nature.

I would like to here other peoples thoughts and ideas on the subject. Does it have merit? Am I missing anything? I personally feel it is missing something. One thing is Euclidian and non Euclidian geometry that I havn't really gone into. I could also go into Transpersonal Psychology and how it may relate.




[edit on 13/6/08 by MikeboydUS]

So there's no opinions on the subject? Hmm.

I figured at the minimum there might be some constructive criticism.

Maybe I should have spelled Hear and not Here. I would like to Hear some thoughts and opinions Here. Does it sound like rambling? Is it coherent? I did notice some incoherent typing up there. I'll make sure to proofread more thoroughly next time. Egad.





[edit on 14/6/08 by MikeboydUS]

Two additions:

In Freemasonry God is referred to as "The Great Geometrician" on several ocassions in the ritual books.


In his book "'___' - The Spirit Molecule", Rick Strassman Ph.D. proves that most going through a '___' experience first pass a "geometric universe". No further comment on this due to T&C reasons (illegal substances)

reply to post by Skyfloating


From what I have read and seemed to have experienced there is no need for any illegal entheogens to experience what they called a "geometric universe". The Pineal Gland is fine to discuss I hope?

Originally posted by MikeboydUS


From what I have read and seemed to have experienced there is no need for any illegal entheogens to experience what they called a "geometric universe". The Pineal Gland is fine to discuss I hope?

Yes it is.

reply to post by Skyfloating


I have been reading about the universal appearances of these geometric forms. How bizarre that they are reported in not just simple meditation but are also reported in near death experiences, out of body experiences, and abduction reports.

I think that in itself should prove that the forms have some fundamental role in the universe.

I have been reading about Sacred Geometry recently. I don't agree with alot of the New Age concepts behind it, but I think there is a case to be argued that geometric phenomena are an innate property of consciousness and the universe.




[edit on 15/6/08 by MikeboydUS]

I think you're on to something MikeboydUS.

While our local universe may indeed be in the shape of a dodecahedron, I believe it is all contained within a circle, and our dodecahedral part of the universe is just a smaller more complex part of a larger whole. There may be an infinite amount of "layers", all which have more complex shapes as you go deeper.

But the circle is important because you can get all known shapes in existence starting with the circle and duplicating itself as can clearly be seen in the construction of mandalas and crop circles.

Even straight lines could be a part of a larger circle and you wouldn't know it without zooming way out (for lack of a better explanation).

Yes, I think Mikeboyd is on to a few things...Im just not sure what.

Again, bringing up Freemasonry (if you dont mind) and something most Freemasons dont even know: The masonic Square and Compass go back to Pythagoras of Ancient Greece who used the same symbol (a combination of the greek letters L & A) to encode the following information: "The World in Harmony" and "The World Created by Geometry". This is why masons refer to God as either "The Great Architect" or "The Grand Geometrician".

It would seem that various universes and dimensions have geometry as their basis. Meditating on geometric shapes of more than 3-dimensions is supposed to produce altered states. I cant confirm this as Im too lazy to imagine objects that have more than 3 dimensions.

reply to post by Kruel


Have you looked at Non Euclidian geometry? I think there might be a key there.

You mentioned circles. Well imagine a Non Euclidian Dodecahedron.

What I really wonder is if there is something beyond like a how a hecatonicosachoron is a hyperdimensional dodecahedron.

reply to post by Skyfloating


Pythagoras was a supergenius. Much of Plato's information goes at least back to Pythagoras. Also makes you wonder in relation to Freemasonry, what do the upper echelons know in regards to the Pythagorean mysteries and the geometric properties of reality and consciousness.

Have you looked at imagery of Metatron's Cube? Kruel's avatar appears to have one in it. It appears to be a Two dimensional representation of a hyperdimensional object. I would love to find out more about the thing, but cannot pinpoint the origin of it in history. I wonder if the Masons know?


[edit on 14/6/08 by MikeboydUS]

Originally posted by MikeboydUS

Pythagoras was a supergenius. Much of Plato's information goes at least back to Pythagoras. Also makes you wonder in relation to Freemasonry, what do the upper echelons know in regards to the Pythagorean mysteries and the geometric properties of reality and consciousness.

Have you looked at imagery of Metatron's Cube? Kruel's avatar appears to have one in it. It appears to be a Two dimensional representation of a hyperdimensional object. I would love to find out more about the thing, but cannot pinpoint the origin of it in history. I wonder if the Masons know?

Most masons wouldnt have a clue. Why? Because you have to have a taste for interdisciplinary research and multi-level-interests in order to "get" one thing or the other.

I cant put my finger on it (just like you) but I think there is something to hyperdimensional objects that could tell us a lot about how the universe was built.

Thats running on intuition, nothing else. So, lets see if any other poster can shed some light on all this.

reply to post by Skyfloating


This could sound really silly or illuminating, maybe both Hopefully it makes some kind of sense.

One thing I was thinking of is how Freemasonry relates to the Divine as an Architect or Mathematician. What it made me realize is that as I think and type, information is being processed not just in my "mind" but in the universe as a whole. We use manmade symbols like numbers and language to contain information in order for us to process it. I wonder if these geometric forms and patterns could represent somekind of transcendent information? One might be able to use the analogy of Machine Code used in computing. The other thing it made me think of was the idea of Math as the Universal Language.

I don't want to go to far into the implications of it, but one might infer all kinds of things ranging from the transmission of information/communication, instruction/programming, and transpersonal memory.

Again its just an idea I had.

I have no math skills, but I wanted to add that I have had a dream where the black night sky was full of geometric shapes of endless kinds. When I was reading I was remembering it again. I had always thought it was important somehow because it didn't seem to be something I would normally dream about. Not my thing, so to speak.
I believe there are inner levels of Masonry that even masons do not know. I think the Greeks knew it, and it has been hidden from us. Probably a worthless post, but I am interested, even if I don't understand math or physics well. I think there is something to it too.

Even though Hans Jenny did pioneer cymatics in modern times, the study of geometric relationships to wave interaction (sound) obviously has much older roots (Pythagoras). A work that shows ancient peoples understanding of sacred geometry can be found in Scotland. In the Rosslyn Chapel, Tomas J. Mitchell has found what he calls "frozen music". Apparently, there are 213 cubes with different symbols that are believed to have musical significance. After 27 years of study and research, Mitchell has found the correct pitches and tonality that matches each symbol on each cube, revealing harmonic and melodic progressions. He has fully discovered the "frozen music", which he has named the Rosslyn Motet, and is set to have it performed in the chapel on May 18th, 2007, and June 1st, 2007. from Wiki

[edit on 15-6-2008 by seagrass]

The discovery of the relationship of geometry and mathematics to music within the Classical Period is attributed to Pythagoras, who found that a string stopped halfway along its length produced an octave, while a ratio of 3/2 produced a fifth interval and 4/3 produced a fourth. Pythagoreans believed that this gave music powers of healing, as it could "harmonize" the out-of-balance body, and this belief has been revived in modern times[1]. Hans Jenny, a physician who pioneered the study of geometric figures formed by wave interactions and named that study cymatics, is often cited in this context. However, Dr. Jenny did not make healing claims for his work. from Wiki

[edit on 15-6-2008 by seagrass]

[edit on 15-6-2008 by seagrass]

I will point you here first as there is something to the concept even if the rest is bunk. I will be back later with some more avenues.


www.abovetopsecret.com...'

[edit on 15-6-2008 by KTK]

[edit on 15-6-2008 by KTK]

reply to post by KTK


You arn't telepathic are you? Your edit was quite a coincidence.

I went over the thread and have downloaded some of the documents that one of the moderators placed on rapidshare and also checking out the links.

So far at least from what I have read it sounds like potential nuggets of truth among a mountain of disinformation. Some of it reminds me of the Holographic Paradigm and the idea that reality is Relative. I am familiar with apports and asports. I am also familar with Kefitzat Haderech and with what I might call Deports or others call paranormal vanishing. As far as I can tell this MPO/LERM info doesn't really address that but seems reminiscient of those concepts. It also reminds me of ancient Greek views on the Elements and Alchemy. It also seems quite New Age and pseudoscientific.



[edit on 15/6/08 by MikeboydUS]

Originally posted by MikeboydUS

What it made me realize is that as I think and type, information is being processed not just in my "mind" but in the universe as a whole. We use manmade symbols like numbers and language to contain information in order for us to process it. I wonder if these geometric forms and patterns could represent somekind of transcendent information? One might be able to use the analogy of Machine Code used in computing. The other thing it made me think of was the idea of Math as the Universal Language.

I don't want to go to far into the implications of it, but one might infer all kinds of things ranging from the transmission of information/communication, instruction/programming, and transpersonal memory.

Again its just an idea I had.

Doesnt sound crazy. Sounds like common sense. In my best lucid dream days I would fly through a vast space full of tapestries of intersecting universes, 12-dimensional jewels, circling mandalas. During that lucid state your words would sound mundane. But back in waking life its a real task to make sense of it all.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
I have been reading about Sacred Geometry recently. I don't agree with alot of the New Age concepts behind it, but I think there is a case to be argued that geometric phenomena are an innate property of consciousness and the universe.

I am convinced that there is nothing in the universe that does not conform on some level to what we understand as either geometry or music. Our thoughts are neural "shapes," the chemicals that induce our emotional states of mind have definitive "shapes" that determine what they can and cannot bond to, etc. Even vibrations and oscillations of everything from atoms to waves of light take geometric forms across time, similar to a simple music. And when everything here happens across time, each event having its particular place and moment, you have something ultimately very akin to music, albeit infinitely more universal in its inclusiveness. Every dissonance is taken with every harmony; every possibility is explored through shape and dimension, building in complexity.

Jung's work is breath-taking to anyone familiar with Eastern philosophies like Taoism or Zen Buddhism, dealing largely with transcending dualities, and even what you refer to as "sacred geometry." Everything is geometry, and realizing the sacredness of universal and transcendental form is a state of mind. Everything has form. So much in physics is represented by the simple sine wave, or a hexagon, the Star of David. Even the word "idea" used to be synonymous with "form" in ancient times.

I enjoyed reading the OP. This is a great thread.

[edit on 16-6-2008 by bsbray11]

Have you read this book, Destiny of souls by Michael Newton?

books.google.com.au...:Michael+inauthor:Newton&sig=mbJviA-1d63q0-6HIrPivuq7xxc#PPP1,M1

Basically he regresses people in between lives and found some obvious patterns. In this book he mentioned geometric shapes and creation, it reminds me alot of what you are conveying.



Again Ill be back with more for you, time constraints, ra ra ra.

reply to post by KTK


I havn't read it. I usually stay away from Llewellyn books.

I dont doubt hypnosis has some really interesting potential, but at the same time I'm still not sure about New Age ideas in regards to reincarnation/transmigration of the soul and spirits. I'm very skeptical of them.

Personally I have an idea that when people are hypnotized they can tap into the Collective Unconscious, meaning people might be tapping into other people's memories and thoughts. Even more bizarre, I wonder if this Collective may not be confined to just Us or this Universe. I personally wonder if this Collective could encompass the mulitverse past, present, and future. Rather than tapping into past lives that we supposedly lived, we may simply be able to tap in to the memories and thoughts of everyone that has lived. I also think there could be alot of distortion, meaning we mentally filter and distort memories and thoughts in ways for us to relate to them or makes "sense".

There also seems to be a fantastic component that I am very skeptical of, mainly with the so called Spirits, or Theosophical concepts, especially Ascended Masters and Spirit guides. There's simply too much feel good fluff and a whole lot of propaganda, disinformation or memetic engineereing going on by these so called Benevolent brothers. I have my own theories about these so called "Councils of Elders" or "Secret Chiefs". Theyre not pretty. I cover some of my ideas in "They Come From Within" thread here: www.abovetopsecret.com...

To me they have more in common with Gnostic Archons than Enlightened Beings, but I stress I am far from Gnostic. I think Gnosticism doesn't take responsibility. I may post my deeper thoughts on the subject one day but it strays away from inferred metaphysical ideas and more into conjecture. So it may find itself in another forum.

I do agree with one thing the author said though, that we are all linked or entangled.




[edit on 16/6/08 by MikeboydUS]

Great minds mike, great minds....




Have similar suspicions myself. Mentioned the book as geometrics are all over it. Odd that the concept should be found well within the subconcious as well.


Ive been looking into universal symbols from another thread. I have noticed spirals crop up everywhere even from pre modern man. They would be cones in 3d, have you looked into spirals and cones as well? Pins spirals and cones are involved in our eyesight.