Why I don't believe...

I was baptized Catholic. I believe just about my entire, albeit small family are Catholic as well. I used to attend Sunday school as a child and even spent an entire summer at a school/church. I actually enjoyed the goings-on that occured there.

I have never cared for authority. I have always hated bullies and could never tolerate injustice.

About the time when I turned 12. I really started to see things differently. Though when the thought of "God" came to mind, I looked at the whole concept differently. That is when I told my mother that "I just don't buy it anymore." She was shocked to say the least. (though for being somewhat religious people, my family, every one of them is an alcoholic or drug addict of some sort, which I find funny.)

I couldn't explain why I just stopped believing until I finally started to look at the world and the affect religion, Catholicism and Christianity mainly, have on the world and on people. I especially noticed during my rather difficult teen years of being homeless, drug use and going to bed hungry in my mothers broken down station wagon, of how the world is because of religion. But that's another story...

The few times I went to church thereafter, I saw how ugly people are towards eachother. How much better they think they are than someone who may worship something they don't. It disgusted me that people couldn't be human first. They had to be "saved" or "reborn" before they could even pretend to be decent people.

I also noticed how those that worship or believe in other things treated others. Pagans or Wiccans. Even Satanists.

Christians and Catholics seem to be so preoccupied with their interpretation arguements, fighting amongst eachother and calling everyone unlike them a sinner that will one day burn in hell, that they totally lose sight of what they should be doing.

On the other hand. Pagans, Wiccans, Philosophers and even Satanists rarely have those meaningless squabbles and could care less what others do in my experience with them and they never looked down on others for what they believed.

When I think Christian/Catholic I immediately go into defense mode. But when I think Wiccan, Pagan or Buddhists and such, I think of possible new friends or someone to learn from.

Is it possible that Christianity and Catholicism was ever or ever will be free of infighting and live up to what it's supposedly supposed to be? I don't think so. For centuries it has been nothing but a tool for opression. An excuse to kill.

I realize many other religions have the same violent backrounds. It just makes me wonder how long it will last before people open their eyes to the truth. Not the question if there is a god or not. But open their eyes to the fact that no matter what religion, death has and will always been apart of it. Brutal death.

Will people one day be able to live without the religious nonsense and try to understand the universe and ourselves without needing some spooky, invisable, absentee father-figure to guide us? Or some golden idol?

Personally I could careless what people worship. But injustice and bullies have always bothered me, and religion is full of both.

Do you ever feel like you are a nuetral caught in the middle, standing still as things are happening around you.

Do you ever analyze the things going on around you, down to the smallest action?

Do you ever feel like you are screaming into a void of humanity?

Care to tell me what you believe and why?...




PS. Sorry for the enigmatic wording...

Do you think that you'll be saved
by the gods and idols that you have made?
~VNV Nation~

Thornfinn, that story could very well be told about me. I was also raised catholic, with most of my family member still be devout xians, and now, I am an atheist. My mother still tries to tell me that I am not really an atheist, but she has stopped asking me to go to church with her.
For me, I suppose it is a combination of factors. I find no evidence to support a belief in a god or gods, and honestly, I find the idea do be absolutely rediculous.
I am a much happier and healthier person now then I was before. I have the burden of guilt lifted off my shoulders.

I also was raised catholic and went to Sunday school, first holy communion, the whole ball of wax. I couldn't tell you the exact moment that I turned away from it, but I can say that it occured because I was sick of subjecting myself to such negative control factors. I have no use for crutches or unjustified guilt or imaginary father figures.

Originally posted by Thorfinn Skullsplitter
I was baptized Catholic. I believe just about my entire, albeit small family are Catholic as well. I used to attend Sunday school as a child and even spent an entire summer at a school/church. I actually enjoyed the goings-on that occured there.

I have never cared for authority. I have always hated bullies and could never tolerate injustice.

About the time when I turned 12. I really started to see things differently. Though when the thought of "God" came to mind, I looked at the whole concept differently. That is when I told my mother that "I just don't buy it anymore." She was shocked to say the least. (though for being somewhat religious people, my family, every one of them is an alcoholic or drug addict of some sort, which I find funny.)

I couldn't explain why I just stopped believing until I finally started to look at the world and the affect religion, Catholicism and Christianity mainly, have on the world and on people. I especially noticed during my rather difficult teen years of being homeless, drug use and going to bed hungry in my mothers broken down station wagon, of how the world is because of religion. But that's another story...

The few times I went to church thereafter, I saw how ugly people are towards eachother. How much better they think they are than someone who may worship something they don't. It disgusted me that people couldn't be human first. They had to be "saved" or "reborn" before they could even pretend to be decent people.

I also noticed how those that worship or believe in other things treated others. Pagans or Wiccans. Even Satanists.

Christians and Catholics seem to be so preoccupied with their interpretation arguements, fighting amongst eachother and calling everyone unlike them a sinner that will one day burn in hell, that they totally lose sight of what they should be doing.

On the other hand. Pagans, Wiccans, Philosophers and even Satanists rarely have those meaningless squabbles and could care less what others do in my experience with them and they never looked down on others for what they believed.

When I think Christian/Catholic I immediately go into defense mode. But when I think Wiccan, Pagan or Buddhists and such, I think of possible new friends or someone to learn from.

Is it possible that Christianity and Catholicism was ever or ever will be free of infighting and live up to what it's supposedly supposed to be? I don't think so. For centuries it has been nothing but a tool for opression. An excuse to kill.

I realize many other religions have the same violent backrounds. It just makes me wonder how long it will last before people open their eyes to the truth. Not the question if there is a god or not. But open their eyes to the fact that no matter what religion, death has and will always been apart of it. Brutal death.

Will people one day be able to live without the religious nonsense and try to understand the universe and ourselves without needing some spooky, invisable, absentee father-figure to guide us? Or some golden idol?

Personally I could careless what people worship. But injustice and bullies have always bothered me, and religion is full of both.

Do you ever feel like you are a nuetral caught in the middle, standing still as things are happening around you.

Do you ever analyze the things going on around you, down to the smallest action?

Do you ever feel like you are screaming into a void of humanity?

Care to tell me what you believe and why?...




PS. Sorry for the enigmatic wording...

You have a point BUT i still belive in God.

Originally posted by AD5673
You have a point BUT i still belive in God.

It is possible to believe in a god without being religious.

I went to catholic schools a good portion of my life and I can relate to want your talking about. It seems that the Catholics turn people off to Christianity. It's sad but true. I was just like you, whenever Christianity was mentioned I would real defensive and try to prove people wrong. Then I thought about it. Why am I doing this. Will it help my spiritual development arguing with those who don't want to hear? No, and at this moment in time I don't associate my self to any earthly religion. However I do believe in god. Not because I have to it's because I want to.

What kills me sometimes is that people only believe because they don't want to go to hell. Me personally I don't believe in hell. If there is one it's is this planet we call earth. And if I�m wrong about hell then I�ll take it like a man/sprit.

I'm not going to sit here and try to force you to believe. But what it seems to me is that mankind has made you lose your faith in God. My vision of God is everything is existence is a part of God. We can never understand every thing in existence because it just way to big so hence we can never truly understand the nature of God.

My beliefs were affirmed when I read the Kabaylon. It helped to guide my thoughts. The only thing you can take with you when you die is knowledge. The more you learn the better prepared you are when you crossover. Just my thoughts

EXACTLY DaTruth. PERFECT

GOD is everything and everything is a part of GOD, therefore we will never understand to what extent GOD plays in our lives.

Religion is just a formalized structure of beliefs, but they may not be the right ones. But any "religion" that was created to discount another "religion" is also not right. So therefore ALL religions must not be right. YOU as a person must find GOD yourself. YOU and GOD. As in the end and so as in the beginning YOU and GOD. No book, no writings, no teachers, no friends, no family, no anything else except YOU and GOD.

HE must exist therefore we exist, the universe exists therefore GOD exists. GOD exists thus the universe exists. Without GOD there is nothing. Everything interconnected everything inter-related. Then you will have an idea of what GOD is.

I too was brought up as a Catholic, but realised that my ideas were more pagan in orientation soon after leaving school. I have absolutely no problem with Catholics or Christians in general providing they follow the teachings of Christ. Christ - NOT the power obsessed churches made up in his name.

I cannot abide hypicrites. I am sick of the and hypocrisy of people like that who spout peace and forgiveness and then treat others like #e. My mother-in-law for example, spouts endless reams of Christian doctrine, but is probably one of the most intolerant people I have known. Except of course of her 'darling grandsons' who can do no wrong, despite their constant attempts to bring to and end my marriage to KayEm.

I, of course, am Lucifer incarnate as far as MIL is concerned - Just because I happened to fall in love with her daughter and I actually give her support ... you know, the help that married people usually give each other. KayEm had split from her ex 8 years ago (4 years before we met) because of his violence and addiction to herion. However MIL - the fount of all wisdom - thought it would be 'better for the children' if they got back together. When KayEm refused to ruin what was left of her life by going back to Bubba, MIL tried to get KayEm a date with an 'All American Boy'. Of she refused of course because she was engaged to me at the time. Is that truly the act of a caring follower of Christ ?

For some reason MIL sees me as some kind of enemy. Lets guess why ... could it be that I see through the crap she spouts ? Could it be because she sees me as some kind of challenge to her manipulations ? I really couldn't give a

So you see, I really cannot abide hypocrites but, until the fecking INS gets their act together and give me a work permit, I'm stuck.

Sorry for the rant - Today has NOT been a good day.

Hey i know

One Problem i have found is that catholicism is based on many traditions and in many places varies from the bible

The only truths they stick to is the law which they tend to be perfectly correct

However i suggest you seriously consider the bible as absolute truth and forget what u have been taught. As vital information has been perverted in many catholic denominations down the years!

Read the bible is the way i guess to understand!
Oh yeah and start a personal relation ship with god
talk to him!
Stand at the door and knock he will answer!

I do not know why your family do those sins however dont look to them and compare

Sort only your self out because you know yourself best

Your righ about catholics and protestants arguing all day, when instead we should be praying.



I trulymust be the only one in here who never grew up belieing anything and then convverted to catholicism. Ive had a totally different life then most of you people so I see it way differently, and there are reasons Ibelieve in this wich you have not seen through my eyes.



You know if you look hard enough you wll find a true person in church without pride, they do exist and I see alot of them on sunday.




"" the weight of guilt ""



Funny thing s for me, before I evr even heard of sin or Jesus in my late teens, i still felt guilt for my sins without anybody telling me so, and even if my own family told me to not feel guilty or anybody for that matter, I would still feel bad for sin because I personally hate my own sin.




I guess everybody iis different.



Peace.

"I find no evidence to support a belief in a god"

I find no evidence that dispells the idea of God. To proove that God does not exist we would have to know everysingle part of our universe. as well as that we would have to explored every time zone and everything outsidethis universe. we will never be able to proove that God does not exist.

"I have no use for crutches or unjustified guilt or imaginary father figures."

Christianity; Its not a crutch if you look at it. Its a life support machine!!!!!! I couldt live without him, without Jesus I could not get through a single day. Unjustified guilt; thats not what its about, jesus nailed our guilt, sin and shame to the cross. Imaginary farther figures; I never knew my farther. To be able to call the creator of he universe farther is one of the most precious gifts he could have given me. To have a farther in heaven, one who is perfect, who loves me is so amazing.

Most of you on this site have had a bad experience of church. Some people are hypocrites, they become preachers for money, they dont know God, neither do they care about him.

If all that is said about Jesus is true that has to count for something. I know a lot of you have had bad experiences of church and I know its hard to forgive when people hurt you.

Look at Jesus. watch the passion when it comes out.

If he really did that for you how amazing is that! he gave up everything just to be with you coz he loves you, he wants to put the past behind. no guilt, no hate, just love.

What would you say?

Originally posted by Adrianay
"I find no evidence to support a belief in a god"


Look at Jesus. watch the passion when it comes out.

If he really did that for you how amazing is that! he gave up everything just to be with you coz he loves you, he wants to put the past behind. no guilt, no hate, just love.

What would you say?

We saw that movie last night man. They beat him nearly to death with about 60 lashes and then beat him al the way up the hill to Golgatha ( a beautiful place) . He dropped his cross about twenty times right on his head. I think that part of the movie was way overdone. I don't believe a human could be pushed that far. Its the best one I have seen thus far but that walk down the Viadoloroso lasts about an hour. In fact that walk is basically the whole movie.

I wonder if that entire story has grown from the annual tradition they had of turning loose a murder in turn for an innocent man. In that way Jesus became his savior.

Originally posted by Beanie_pianoforte
However i suggest you seriously consider the bible as absolute truth and forget what u have been taught.

So do you consider these passages truth?!?!

"'Why do you call me good?' Jesus answered. 'No one is good except God alone.'" - Mark 10:18

"So Jesus said, 'When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me.'" - John 8:28

"The father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form." - John 5:37

"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord', shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he only he who does the will of My Father in heaven." - Matthew 7:21

"For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me." - John 6:38

"Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done." - Luke 22:42


"About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" - Matthew 27:46

"Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me." - John 8:42

"For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it." - John 12:49

"I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge." - John 8:50


"I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him." - John 13:16

"Jesus said to them, 'Only in his hometown and in his own house is a prophet without honor.'" - Matthew 13:57

"Jesus answered, 'My teaching is not my own. It comes from him who sent me.'" - John 7:16

"You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." - John 14:28

Dattruth, did you notice that every single passage you gave he was talking to the jewish unbelievers or the jewish hierarchy?


He came as a servant, and this is how he talked when he talked to the unbelievers or hierarchy and even his followers to show them he came as a servant.



all your passages can be summed up in one passage.



Phillipians 2:6


"" Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But emptied himself, (taking) the form (of a) servant, being made in the likeness of man, and in habit found as
a man ""


You do not need me to interpet it to yu, you should be able to understand this passage.




Phillipians 2:10


" That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those that are in heaven, on earth, and under the earth "




heres one passage I have which is definite forme, and im only giving one here.





Matt 12:8


" For the son of man is lord even ofthe sabbath "



this is blasphemy if he is only a prophet, andso was the reason he was killed, not knowing he is the saviour.





Peace.

[Edited on 10-3-2004 by Truth]

Automatic distrust of religions (which I also suffer from) is usually just a psychological reflex based back to some horrible experience with one element of religion. As such, it becomes easier to disqualify religion on a whole, not a belief in god, but a belief in religion. This goes hand in hand with looking towards anti-religious organtizations quite warmly and inviting. So to get beyond the psychological reflex you have to determine what it was that made it that way, and then, when thinking about religion, try to keep in mind that your initial reflex will be distrust.

Don't get me wrong though, I think there are plenty of reasons to distrust many forms of religion, but I've found that can usually be seen within the human element, the element that wants to be part of an exclusive club where everyone in that club is better than those that are not in it. But religion, as an institution, can't be wholly seen as a bad thing. Just my 2c.

Originally posted by meddled
But religion, as an institution, can't be wholly seen as a bad thing. Just my 2c.

Have to disagree with you. It seems to me that 99% of all religions are based on a control structure or hierarchy. Do what we tell is is moral or right and you will be benifited; do what we tell you is immoral or unbenificial to OUR way of life and you will eventually be punished.

How is any other person more qualified to define what the god thing is to me then myself. Why do I need an intermediary?

Originally posted by Jonna

Have to disagree with you. It seems to me that 99% of all religions are based on a control structure or hierarchy. Do what we tell is is moral or right and you will be benifited; do what we tell you is immoral or unbenificial to OUR way of life and you will eventually be punished.

How is any other person more qualified to define what the god thing is to me then myself. Why do I need an intermediary?

Ok, lets look at this from the viewpoint of the "nurturing parent." The nurturing parent will let their child know basic fundamental ways to live and how to choose. Now after this has been done, the parent allows the child to experience the world on their own, allowing them to make their own choices. Once those choices have been made the parent acts as a guide, questioning the child on his or her motives for doing what they chose to do. This way the child can feel confident about making their own choices in life.

Now as I see it, there are churches that act in this same way. Not telling you definitive guidlines for how to live, but merely acting as a guide through your own spiritual journey. These churches may be few and far between, but I do know this is what my local Unitarian churches preach.

Originally posted by meddled
Now as I see it, there are churches that act in this same way. Not telling you definitive guidlines for how to live, but merely acting as a guide through your own spiritual journey. These churches may be few and far between, but I do know this is what my local Unitarian churches preach.

I said 99% because it would be foolish to believe that I knew the rules of every religion. However, nearly every religion that I am aware of is a control structure to such a degree that, at least to me and my perception of it, the definition of religion is more synonymous with control then spirituality. The concept of heaven/hell, god/satan, good/evil are all control structures and thus a lot of religions go right into the way that I see it.

Originally posted by Truth

Dattruth, did you notice that every single passage you gave he was talking to the jewish unbelievers or the jewish hierarchy?

Sorry truth but once again your DEAD WRONG. You might be referring to one or two of them but not all of them. I have read all of these passages and the verses that come before them. I don't have my bible with me because I�m at work but one inpatuicular your wrong about.

"I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him." - John 13:16

He had just washed his apostles feet. And said that he was setting an example. Unless your saying that the apostles were non-believers?!?!?

"About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" - Matthew 27:46

I'm pretty sure he was on the cross when this happened. He wasn't talking to anyone except GOD


"'Why do you call me good?' Jesus answered. 'No one is good except God alone.'" - Mark 10:18


Right here a man who was a believer gave him a complement calling him Good because he had just performed a miracle. And Jesus was basically saying that he does nothing of his won will but of GOD's will.

I'm threw arguing with you man. You got to come better than that truth. I admit that some of the passages were to non-believers but not all. Give it up truth you hold no water.