Is it better to run to the hills, run to the cities, or run to the suburbs?

I apollogize if this has been posted before but, I have been thinking if Sitx were to occur, what would be a better choice, the wilderness the suburbs, or the city.

In the wilderness you could hunt and fish and build shelter, but in the city you can live wherever you want provided that no one else is staying there. Also there are plenty of supplies and medicine in the city and whatever food is left over.

Or would it be better just to find a house in the suburbs and start farming. Protect what you already have and start producing.

Iam undecided and thought you guys could provide some insight.


[edit on 28-4-2008 by schism85]

While talking about a SitX etc., I often hear "city folk" saying "no prob dude, I'll just head for the hills with my tent and my rifle and live off the land". Sounds good enough eh?

Though I'll never forget sitting in a bar one day years ago having this type of a conversation with a couple of seasoned outdoorsman (railroad guys if I recall correctly). They were talking about living off the deer population and one of them said "I can tell you one thing, if I need that deer to survive and I see you in my scope I wouldn't think twice about blowing your head off". I can see this kind of thinking becoming pretty common in an all out societal collapse.

Something you should keep in mind if you are one of those planning to head for the hills. It could turn out to be a quite different ballgame than just "chillin in the hills" and "livin off the land". Just a thought.....

reply to post by SystemiK


Nice, I will keep that in mind if I choose to subside in the wilderness should sitx occur. Though I will not trust anybody if something like that were to happen, especially when trying to find food.

For the record, I am not one of the "city folk" you describe, and when the time comes I believe I will have made a good decision, not just "hey dude, lets live in the woods". I know what you mean though.

Edit: typo

[edit on 28-4-2008 by schism85]

I most likely would stay in the suburbs and protect what I allready have. I would fortify my house, and plant a garden.

I would most certainly not stay in a city though. There would be more people and they are probably not going to be nice if they are trying to stay alive. You would not have any room to grow your own food or anything either.

Good post

In My opinion it is wise to run to the city till the way to the hills/woods is clear and safer. Be prepared because City survival is a lot harder then living in the woods. both are hard work but in the city things seem to hide better.

check out this post. what to do when you just cant leave (City Survival)

Let me rephrase that a little. If your already in the city stay till the ways clear. if your in the hills or woods stay. do not run to the city especially if your already in a safer situation. I should not post when I am tired.

I'm going to quote one of my favourite anti-heroes here, from one of terry pratchett books;

"It's not Where you're running to, But where you're running From".

If you're already in a secure location, use the time you have to prepare yourself mentally for the possible obstacles that could impeed your progress when it becomes nessecary to move to a new hiding place.

If you're not in a secure location - Run like the wind.

I never really understood why heading-for-the-hills was an option...
most all lakes, rivers, ponds are polluted & the fishing in a hole-in-the-wall retreat is most lakely sparse... 90% (just my guess) of outdooey areas have fish stocked and had game wardens who aided in the 'plentiful' game and deer populations as an example...

If a SituationX does go down, then there isn't any one left to transport the fish from the fish nursery to the tourist fishing hole/lake/stream/pond...
And the deer, pheasant, & other normally plentiful game will not be there because of game management is out of business, so any managed game populations won't be around in a short time...and turn that once garden-of-eden into just another hell hole.


One should stay where they have a knowledge of the area.
As for gardening in a city, get +100 sacks of topsoil/potting soil, etc
and fashion rooftop gardening. I grew tomatoes and watermellons on a communes rooftop up in DC, so i know it can be done.
One just needs to turn their urban knowledge from the focus of getting & going to work , being a Consumer... into being in a survivor mode.


thanks

I am in the boat with several of the previous posters. If you are in a safe area, stay there for as long as you can, and get out of dodge when you have no other choice. But on the other hand, do not let that stop you from having a plan to bug out and head for the hills if all hell breaks loose.

I honestly think that every suburbanite Tom, Dick, and Jane with any camping supplies are going to hop in thier SUVs and head for the hills ASAP, leaving the highways clogged and impassable. And the 'burbs population will be seriously reduced within hours of the initial "Sit X". The suburbs provide shelter, land for food, game (well after the animals notice that theres not as many people around anymore), and if scaveging is required there are plenty of places to pick up supplies.

One issues with the suburbs may be lack of field of vision especially in a subdivision where the land is flat and your surrounded by houses. But if there is a water tower near by and you have good optics you can see for miles.

Just my $.02

The sentiment about breakdown of law and order is correct imo. People with less morals will dominate and quite possibly destroy people trying to do the right thing. In cities there is simply a lot more people and potential problems to deal with. But I think it's safe to say nowhere will be safe.

Do not run to your own funeral.

Running for the hills seems to be everyone's idea of a peaceful tranquil life. It's not. It's hard work, and requires knowing who your neighbors are, and actually giving a rat's tail about them.

I am always amazed when city slickers come out here. they love it for a few months, then try to turn it into another city. Eventually they tire and decide it's easier to just move back where they came from.

I will reinforce that fellow's attitude about 'his' food supply. I won't hesitate to plug someone who is poaching on my property. The local game warden has been told to stay off for his own protection, and from what I have heard through the grapevine, he has passed that along to potential poachers. There are still those of us who live by the old rules.

If you can handle country life, and are talking about a complete collapse, I would suggest an area pretty well-wooded, but within walking distance of a suburb. You can camp mout away from trouble and still be close enough to 'civilization' to raid a few stores/houses if need be.

Just make sure it ain't in my woods.

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck


Just one question from someone who might find himself trespassing out of nessecity (passing through) in the future;

What do you reckon are the chances of me being allowed to hunt a single animal if i were to knock on your door and ask nicely?

I ask because i have a nasty feeling that if a SitX goes down, i'm not going to see the gun that fires the bullet with my name on it.

[edit on 29-4-2008 by Anti-Tyrant]

This is interesting because my husband and I have determined that our house is pretty much undefendable. Admitting that sucks, but the truth is that we feel that anywhere that is more rural will be better. As someone else said, there will a number of problems in the cities that "they" will have to deal with. In the more rural areas, that will be less of a problem. Besides, we have friends there who understand what is happening. The city folks seem to be turning a blind eye--at least in this area.

I say stay with what you know. You will fare best in your natural habitat. Unless of course you are in an area that has been contaminated by chemicals or radiation, or is targeted for attack by an alien particle beam or somesuch, you should stay put.

Be the first cannibal. If supplies start running low, I have no problem with taking out some competition and eating them. If you wait until everyone is already starving to death, their flesh will offer no nutritional value, and you will starve to death anyway, even though you sold your soul.

EDIT to add:



[edit on 4/29/0808 by jackinthebox]

Okay.

I could write a book on this, and in light of the fact I am a bonifide "Peak Oil" believer, I will give you the low down:

Simply put:

1. The City: Per capita/per square mile; where are people murdered right now? Where are most crimes commited per capita in a given area. Obviously in "the city". Now, people here and today will rape your children, rob you, kill you and do all sort of sick things---and do it JUST FOR THE HELL OF IT. Imagine these same people KILLING OUT OF NECESSITY for food, sexual pleasure and resources in a lawless society. The Urban areas after Peak Oil will be HELL ON EARTH.

2. The Suburbs: Less dangerous as urbania. However; consider the logistical situation you are in. You have no working infastructure, sewage and waste condensed into a small area. More people competeing for resources in a smaller area. The suburbs, at least in America, are full of kindlebox wood-framed houses. If you don't give people what they want at gunpoint, they'll simply burn your house/condo down and then take what they want, including your family. Also consider how fast that fire can spread without Fire services.

3. The country: My family lives in the country, I live in the city. I will retreat to the country. Most people in my rural area would not shoot you unless you appeared to be a threat. However, in my retreat area I would give you one warning and one warning only. The country has to adhere to the age old principle of "people per square mile/kilometer". Meaning, there will not be enough resources after an exodus of people from the cities into the country. Ultimately, I would be forced to use force to protect "my subsistence area" which would be quite large.

To answer your question, obviously the country is the place to go. I think the difference is that in the city/burbs people will be coming after you, while people in the country will be defending against you. You have become what the aggressor in the city is, you are the agressor try to displace the people in the country.

reply to post by Anti-Tyrant

Best way to prevent that shot in the head:

Walk slowly up to the front door of the house. If you have a gun, keep it low and stay in the open. Do not make any sudden moves. Dress the best you can. Not a suit, but stay away from baggy pants/earrings, bling, etc. Never go around back; that identifies you as someone who is looking for something to steal and that's not the first impression you want.

It's perfectly OK (and sometimes a good thing) to shout out a 'hello' before you reach the house. It shows you are not trying to sneak around. Just remember to show respect in both your words and tone.

You will receive one of the following welcomes. If someone confronts you before you reach the house, raise your hands and politely state your business. then follow directions. If told to leave, leave, backwards for a few steps and them walking briskly away. If they don't tell you to leave, just talk to them about your needs, but be aware you're already in somebody's scope hairs. Be nice.

If they open the door, ask for what you need. Again, be nice and do as you're told.

If no one is there, leave immediately. They may indeed be gone, or they may be holed up inside waiting. Or a neighbor could be watching.

I seriously doubt you'll be allowed to take an animal. You'll more likely be given food. Country folk can be very overprotective and suspicious, but they also have a great deal of compassion.

TheRedneck

Don't know how many of you have noticed, but all major cities (and some small town) have video cameras mounted on every intersection light pole. If you think that uncle sam won't be watching those cameras for motion activity when you "sneak in to raid a pharmacy" you're sadly mistaken.

i started a new thread with my plan for the perfect survival place in a suburban city area

www.abovetopsecret.com...&flagit=352200

i think i may be on to a winer here

my plan as you can read on my thread is garden centers / diy type stores.... the ones over here in england especially the chain ones B and Q are a massive trade store and garden center. or pick a small one in the chain if their are less of you. read my thread i think it covers all needs in a survival situation

If I realised in time (before it was outright obvious to everyone) that society and/or my nation was breaking down for what ever reason I would spend some of the time I had left: (In no real order)


1) Stocking up on some Low-GI foods like Sunflower seeds, some tubs of Artificial Sweetener free fortified whey powder (It as a lot of protein in that stuff and while not a substitute for real food makes a decent supplement to a rationed or restricted diet if you need to maintain a smallish supply of food and at the same time remain fairly active). and some multivits, aswell as some mineral water

Packing the items in a way to maintain a effective travel ability would be a challenge mind you as you would have to sacrifice the potential for storages unless you made a hide out before hand with all your preps in it down there.

2) Place the whey powder into some non thermal (want the powder to stay cool) water proof portable canisters and gather relevant items, such as torches, anti-infection items as well as the essentials

3) If I had the time to, then I would try to "acclimatise" ahead of time to a dark, dank, rancid fairly cramped subterranean zone such as a subway system, perhaps try to fall in with some homeless who might be down there ahead of time so I can preemptively "tramp" myself up so I get viewed as a fellow homeless person, rather than a surface refugee or raider. So when the locale is close to reaching "to pot" then I can "Loose Myself" down there amongst them.

4) I would stay/ hide in the "underworld" as long as possible avoiding as many others as I could just on the off chance they want my stuff, should be much more safer/ easier then being on the surface world considering it is going to be easier to find and shoot someone in daylight in an open field, street, building or wood then it is in a dark murky tunnel that reaks of excrement especially since most people wouldn't be used to the smell, the dark or have the night vision or training to "hunt" in such places. If things get real bad and desperate then I guess it will be a place every surface (Probably even other under) dweller would avoid (think C.H.U.D. just with deranged humans in place of the cannibal mutants).

Disease would be a major issue, more so then elsewhere given the conditions and potential environmental factors if its a sewer rather then a standard transit system. I would also include things like rabid rats and other as-desperate vermin down there would also be an issue, imagine getting attacked in the dark by dozens of starving sewer rats *Meep*

5) Take some portable heavy duty digging/ boring tools and portable generator or scavenge this stuff later and draw some maps of the locale (maps of shops and places) and perhaps some GPS (several since as each battery dies it wouldn't be that easy to recharge it). Then once under enough to things like a pharmacy or shop dig a observational hole and see what the state of the place is. If its safe enough and stocked enough still somehow, then expand the hole just enough to get a grabber stick or myself through to take what I need and then leave through the hole. Perhaps even hide the hole if its worth coming back, thus bypassing the potential risk of alerting any remaining authorities by scoping the place out from the outside.

Noise from the tools would be an issue as would transportation of such items if I was effectively on my own/ without help. Though I guess one could just destroy and cables into the building to sabotage any possibly still working fiber optics/ telecommunication/ Electric lines that could be used to operate remaining CCTV and be left solely with the risk of only having other looters or surface locales to deal with.

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I have no doubt though that I wouldn't survive all that long even if I managed to get to and stay a month underground since I am A) a Pessimist, B) a Serial Procrastinator and C) Too Sympathetic/ Helpful