Apollo 20 update

I kindly submit the following to inspire further analysis.

Here is a frame grab from You-Tube purportedly to be Buzz Aldrin in Lunar Lander:





Full Video here:www.youtube.com...

Here is a frame grab from Revver "EBE" video #1 in OP:





I was hoping to compare Contol Panels. Too bad the sizes are mis-matched. Any thoughts?
( I don't have PhotoShop currently or else I would attempt image overlays. Any help? Or post side-by-side? )

Granted they could have been modified/updated and varied among missions. But to me....srtrikingly similar. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

regards.......kk


[edit on 14-4-2008 by kinda kurious]

I have to admit looking at the LM controls, if this is a fake he must have spent some money remaking it:

Here is the LM Control Panel of Apollo 17, I have cut the needed area out:


Source (Full Controls High Res)

And here is the apollo 17 panel placed against the video panel:



/rich

reply to post by olegkvasha


Good work! I have just seen the video for the first time, I cannot view any video from this work station, but a private computer is available here, I went back and watched from there. I was stunned.

1.) The "scratches and dirt" on the video looks like the same ones from Adobe After Effects or Premiere and many other video editing programs.

2.) He's touching a dead "alien" with his bare hands. Wouldn't you treat something like that with more care and some GLOVES?

3.) Making a fake LM control panel isn't that hard if you have access to old airplane parts. Ever watch Mythbusters when they go buy junk? Adam Savage loves buying old plane parts like switches and stuff to use on the show. The right parts and a picture or blueprint of the actual control panel and you could make a good replica. It's not that hard if you have the stuff and the time to do it.

4.) Notice that in the clear shots you can always make out an important piece of the LM, like the control panel for example? How come you can clearly see that, but everything else is harder to see. Probably because this guy might have taken into account that people are going to look over this very closely and he done that on purpose. "Hey guys...make sure to get a clear shot of that control panel. I put a lot of time into making that part and I want it to be seen very clearly". You also have to consider that he could be adding real Apollo footage into fake footage he shot. Would explain why the quality goes back and forth constantly through the same video.

The last time this retiredafb guy posted videos on Revver, the user linuxman2k3 created this thread to debunk him. I posted pictures in that thread that proved he faked it all. Pictures are still in that thread if you want to see what I posted. If you look at the pictures I posted and still think this guy is legit...I don't know what to say. The last video he did was very, VERY badly done.

After I posted in that thread, I posted the same exact thing on his Revver page. Within a couple hours all his videos were gone. I really don't want to hear the excuse that people keep hacking his accounts and deleting the videos so the truth won't get out. That excuse is getting old. What's really going on is that people keep debunking him and every time they do he deletes the videos, vanishes for a little while and posts new ones. Each time this happens it's like a month or two before he posts again. Probably because that's how long it takes him and his buddies to make all the new fake videos. Every time he's done this the videos get slightly better looking because he knows what NOT TO DO next time around.

I don't see how people believe this guy. Honestly, if you had footage of real alien bodies and ships on the moon, would you be posting them on YouTube or Revver?



[edit on 15-4-2008 by nightmare_david]

reply to post by nightmare_david

3.) Making a fake LM control panel isn't that hard if you have access to old airplane parts.

at least in the US - obsolete space program equipment is readily availiable - there are several companies that trade in it , either as collactable memorabillia or for salvaging the exotic alloys

i have seem more than one news story of space flight buffs having bought substantial units for thier personal collection

reply to post by olegkvasha

Wow, nice job olegvasha.

The matchup and alignment look to be nearly exact. Hat tip to ya dude.
(Odd that the "readings/values/telemetry" of the guages are almost
exact as well.) Unless those just happen to be the nominal values.

Also exploring the website from the link you provided yields:

www.space1.com...

Seems this company could easily reproduce any space craft cockpit.

And thanks to Spacebot for encouraging further analysis.

This just gets weirderer and weirderer.

regards...........kk



[edit on 15-4-2008 by kinda kurious]

ok, so let's assume that it is entirely fake, everything from day one. What is the motivation? To make chump change from Revver? Was the cost of creating these forgeries low enough to get compensated a few pennies from this site? .
I haven't seen the obligatory DVD for sale yet, unless that's coming soon..

Is this someone with too much times on their hands? Are they doing this to fool a few of us gullible chumps?

Or perhaps, as s ome suspect, that the new videos were created to discredit Rutledge. Does that mean that the original videos on youtube were real? Aren't there easier ways to accomplish this as opposed to building a replica of the LM, a fake EBE, a look-alike Leonov yadda yadda..?

Don't get me wrong, I've seen hundreds of hoax videos and stories through the years, but I haven't seen one the elaborate, I mean most can just be attributed to cgi, not building sets, or the lunar surface in clay.

Originally posted by curiousbeliever
the story of retiredafb is a very confusing one. What purpose does he have to create a hoax? money? fame?

The latest theory is that retiredafb's youtube account was hijacked by TPTB and TPTB deleted the videos that were not hoaxes and placed new videos that were hoaxes to discredit him. Then retiredafb created a revver account, which was also hijacked and they added 2012 nibiru videos to make retiredafb look even more like a hoaxer.

Now there's a new account on youtube. moonwalker1966delta. He seems to be posting the old videos that were removed here and new ones:
youtube.com...

His account was created Aug 30th 2007 which is when the faked hoax videos started to show up. Perhaps this guy is the real retiredafb who created a new account after his first one was taken over. Interested how his country now says USA instead of Rwanda. Perhaps to fool TPTB into not believing it is him or maybe it is a contact of the real retiredafb who lives in the States.

[edit on 7-3-2008 by curiousbeliever]

Originally posted by Bspiracy
I have contacted this moonwalker guy and asked for an interview.
this is our correspondence.

Original Message To:
Do you have more?
Are you friend of retiredafb?

-Reply-
no i'm sorry but i've never met Rutldege sine here at NASA we were kept devided one each other.I was an USAF pilot too and i was the commander of Apollo 19
I'm very sorry but i try to put online what i can and answer to your question s much as i can.i have been the CMDR of Apollo 19 so since my freind Rutledge revealed the truth i'm doing the same because i think now people must konw the truth about everything.If you have to answer please ask i'd be glad to answer you:-)-
q:

Could I ask you a good deal more questions in a sort of "interview"? I am a member of the site AboveTopSecret.com and if it's discussed there, it will quickly circulate. So if I asked you questions, the answers would be intelligently debated.
a:
Yes i'm ready to answer to your questions and have the interview you proposed.

------
There you have it.
I sent him another email asking is there anything on TOP of what I am going to ask I should focus on as well.

So is there anything here someone wants to ask the guy as well? I'm going to focus on why the heck anyone should believe him if his videos are proven fake. From there we'll see as I'm going to remain unbiased to see what comes out. .

His videos are a bit interesting. One video is the one retiredafb put up and his speech pattern is the same.

b

post by Bspiracy



[edit on 15-4-2008 by Rigel]

Wow....

Well, folks....if there's a lesson to be learned from all of this, it's that you should NEVER underestimate the human desire to believe..even when something is so obviously BS, people still want......no, strike that...NEED to believe..

Maybe it's vanity, or ego, or maybe they've just got mommy issues, and they're lonely...i dunno, and i don't particularly care...all i know for certain is that this is pure insanity. these videos...ALL of them are complete fabrications, yet some of you still sit here, trying to defend it. how much more evidence do y'all need?

Originally posted by Daedalus
Wow....Maybe it's vanity, or ego

Well look at my Self-Portrait...ummmm......I mean Avatar.
With a bid ole' head like mine and a single eye, I'm not very vain.

or maybe they've just got mommy issues

You could be on to something there.....I was never breast-fed as a child and hence have developed biting sarcasm as a defense mechanism

..all i know for certain is that this is pure insanity. these videos...ALL of them are complete fabrications, yet some of you still sit here, trying to defend it. how much more evidence do y'all need?

I think, for the most part, we all have agreed to this being faked. (Self included) Seems like we are now simply wondering...why? Who would go to such great lengths? Who benefits?

Seems like we are simply in the final "dissection and dismemberment" phase.

Now and forever.......Kurious.


edited to repair typos

[edit on 15-4-2008 by kinda kurious]

reply to post by kinda kurious


thanks for that.....wasn't really addressing you with that post, but whatever...thanks anyway.

Next time you do something like that though, you might wanna like, NOT quote people out of context, and make the kind of edits you made.

First up NEVER seen NO U.F.O's, had any (E.T) Alien contact physical or otherwise.
Having said that...
I will say that I'm firmly in the 'we ain't alone' community, I also know we are going to need some hard/concrete PROOF to convince most people (whereas mathematical statistics will suffice Me for now).
But ALAS... 'William Rutledge?' is at best an unreliable witness, at worst?
Who knows?
The footage is just as fraudulent as that Apollo 11 soap opera...
It also hampers the search for truth (and makes Me look like a loon amongst the masses, for even thinking there is life in the beyond).
By the by... anybody know what the hell is written on those little post-it notes/tags at the start of these videos? I can't see a damn thing.

Oh well!

kinda kurious

Thx for the photo shots- I stand corrected in my first post where i thought they did not look that similar. I was clearly wrong.
Good job doing the extra leg work.

reply to post by watchd0g


Actually YOU were the one that began my train of thinking. I was gonna go back thru all the posts to credit your post but forgot. Belated Hat-Tip to ya.

Actually olegkvasha did all the work.

Oh well, I suppose this thread will soon go to wherever old threads go
to die. It was still fun and I learned much which is why I still love ATS.

But in this case perhaps....Another Tall Story.

regards...... kk






[edit on 17-4-2008 by kinda kurious]

reply to post by nightmare_david


Good post, just to add something for those who still may think it's too difficult to create a dead-on perfect cockpit yourself, here's a homemade 737NG "simpit." Lots of people make these things, and many of them are professional quality.



here's the real thing for comparison:



Heck, you can even outright buy a full-scale LEM mockup, complete with interior! Sure, it's the costly option, but you could do it if you really wanted to fool people.

www.spacetoys.com...

reply to post by TXRabbit


who says the aliens have ears

ok, bit late in posting, but im more a lurker then anything
thought id wuickly post my view on the why all these costly or cheap fakes.
my take on those lem interior shots is...
ever seen those documentires?, the what if???????
to me, all those ebe vids strike me as a mid Tv budget what if documentry
something like, what if there was an ebe on the moon etc....
anyway, yup, fakes, but theres my view as to why

reply to post by special ed



They make plenty of patches secret or otherwise! Once I received in the mail a diploma of a secret navy group by mistake. See this book:

www.powells.com...

reply to post by Gobo

you have some good points; but comparing high caste Indians to Europeans and low caste ones to Asians is flat out racist. I am of European decent, and I happen to know that white people can learn A LOT from Asians, not the least of which is HUMILITY !

There is a shrewd of truth to be found in all of this hogwash with the videos, in my opinion

A few years ago my father was diagnosed with inoperable cancer. We had been pretty distant throughout life given the nature of father's job. He worked for the government, I knew that much, and his work was classified so he could never speak about it. He often traveled and worked odd hours.

One day we talked and he told me that he had to tell me a secret he never revealed. He said that while he shouldn't tell me, and that I wouldn't believe, he just had to get it off of his chest.

There was an ultra-black project in the mid-70's that sent another mission to the moon to investigate a particularly provacative anomaly. Or at least he said so.

He worked for the NRO from the mid-60's to the early 1980's (retiring shortly after the Able Archer near disaster), which was a top secret department at the time. It was declassified in 1992 I believe. His job there was photograhpic interpretation of spy satellite photos. At that time, the NRO was perhaps the most important intelligence agency in the government, and such was tasked with this project.

My father said that the project was highly compartmentalized so he did not know the whole story, but a lot of it. He claimed to have been a member of mission control where he analyzed video data on the live feed, then later reviewed it. In summary, here are some of the things he told me that relate to this.

1. He did not mention anything about "Apollo 20" and never even gave a formal name. In addition, there were no markings on the rocket or spacecraft. This operation was entirely off the books. No one on the operation used their real names, that's how far it went.
2. Mission Control was located at Vandenburg AFB. The actual launch was on the island of Diego Garcia. This island was located in the Indian Ocean along the equator with virtually nothing around it. This site was chosen because if launched to the East, the rocket would have nearly 12,000 miles of unbroken water to help cover the tracks. It was accepted people would see the launch wherever it was, this site would limit that.
3. The project was initiated, by Nixon's orders, in late 1971. My father's work began on the project began in 1974. The actual mission took place in 1976. My father said that he underwent an intensive psychological exam before he was selected to join the program. He said he thought he was bought in mainly because he "could be trusted".
4. The actual mission consisted of 3 American astronauts whose names he would not mention. He said that these men had been trained for nearly 4 years specifically for this mission. He also said that in 1973 it was confirmed the object was in fact a derelict spacecraft. He reviewed this pictures personally when selected for the project.
5. The spacecraft was speculated to be roughly 1.5 million years old, although he was not allowed access to that exact information. The ship was badly decayed from meteor impacts and the ancient crash. The ship was cigar shaped, and massive, the section was roughly 1 mile. Evidence suggested it been explored before us. No alien remains were found. 300kg of artifacts were stripped and brought back. My father described what he called "strange hieroglyphs and markings" covering what was assumed to be the the "cockpit" of the craft.
6. At least 2 other governments were involved with the project. My father said he worked with a British analyst and he knew of a smaller team in Australia but wasn't sure the Australian government were exactly aware of what our men were doing.

Honestly, I thought my father had lost his mind when he told me this. I hadn't thought about it for years until my son showed me "proof of aliens" on You Tube that was one of these videos. He then directed me to this site for further "research".

I have no evidence to prove any of what I said here and don't care if no one believes it. Just thought it was interesting.