Americas 14,000mph secret transit system

Hi Folks,

OK lets sum up the FACTS here

1. It is physically possible to accelerate a vehicle to around 14,000 MPH or 6,173 M/s within 10.5 minutes at 9.8 m/s/s (1G)

2. To reach this speed you'd definitely need the vehicle to be in an evacuated tube, this would remove all problems with aerodynamic heating etc.

3. The tunnel would be less susceptible to earth movements etc being deep underground. (I still find it hard to believe that a major shift between two tectonic plates would not damage the tunnel.)

4. Nuclear TBM's could be used (if they exist) to bore the tunnel and use the molten material removed at the cutting face to create the tunnel walls. (I find it hard to believe that all of the waste would be able to be used to line the walls, surely some waste would have to be removed from the tunnel as at deep depths the material would be of extremely high density already, therefore turning it to glass may not reduce it's volume much at all?)

5. We are assuming that the need to move people across the continent in 21 minutes justifies the additional cost (of what would probably be the largest engineering achievement ever undertaken) when compared to them flying.

In my humble opinion I don't think this thing exists. I just can't see the government ever justifying the cost. If, in the extremely rare circumstance that you do need to get someone to the other coast extremely quickly it would be much cheaper to stick them in an SR-71.

Why is this needed?

If it was seriously economically viable a commercial organisation would have done it or would be doing it.

To put this into perspective lets look at the channel tunnel, linking England and France.

1. It cost $15 Billion to build
2. It had 13,000 people working on the project
3. It took 7 years to dig!
4. The American Society of Civil Engineers has declared the tunnel to be one of the Seven Wonders of the Modern World.

All this for a normal tunnel, 31 miles long and only 150 feet deep. No vacuum system and no liquid helium cooled maglev propulsion, no top secret designers, contractors, workers, engineers, operators etc.

Sorry, the maths adds up, the science adds up, but the justification just doesn't.

Got to go now, I've got a video conference to attend with a company in New York, I'll be there in a few milliseconds. :-)

Cheers

Robbie

I find it a stretch as well, but an enjoyable topic. To me the man power and the waste rock/molten gas are the problems.

reply to post by stratsys-sws


I really dig your summary great post, but I disagree with your final conclusion.

If we assume that the construction began during the Cold War I would conclude that its justification would be easy to prove. I would bet that its safe to say that the military has control over these tunnels (simply because they connect military complexes) then the continuity of government in the scenario of a nuclear attack possibly on multiple cities or installations at once would clearly justify the use of these tunnels and the speed would not simply be a necessity but if you have the technology that can get it that fast why not?

presidents and cabinet members come and go but the military leaders stay the same until they retire. This foresight has to outweigh the "just hop in a sr-71" idea of its cheaper and easier.

If the cold war motto was "if its more advanced than our enemy we will be better off in the end" (obviously my words)...

then I can absolutely see the use of these tunnels specially during the context of a cold war.

The thing is already built. There's more to go but it works. It may not be as fast as 14,000mph but has been worked on for years.
It is geared to sort of replace the airline industry. Private flying and cargo will be just aboout all that's in the sky. The rest of us will be riding the tube DEEP below.

Ok,
I see that it could have been built during the cold war. The underground bases were in place then. That makes sense. I know people who worked on the underground bases. Do you know anyone who worked on the tunnels? Where do you get your information that it is done?

I did a little research into ground penetrating radar and found one site that said it has a reach of about 40 ft. I sent a inquiry to another leading company that provides the service to see if it was possible to go even further by possibly planting antennae deeper into the earth apparently from what I have seen this is possible (although I havent heard back yet officially)

wouldnt this be one of the only ways to prove this false?

one thought though is once you have the funds and the gear where do you start digging? my first guess would be a strait line from merriweather [sic] base to area 51 or maybe the supposed mesa that dulce is under.

or maybe we could get tim the toolman taylor to rig us up a metal detector he sure made one helluva blender

For the sake of argument. Though we agree that the project in England took 13000 workers.

We know that the Air Force and Los Alamos have tunnel boring machines. We accept the fact that there are underground governement bases.
The military keeps the same men in charge until they retire unlike elected officials.

Even if the boring machine drilled very slow and was ran by a few very closed mouth drillers.

If drilling began in the cold war and is still going on. We actually could have tunnels all over the place.

hard to say.

Tim the toolman can do anything.

Originally posted by golfnut
I am enjoying this thread. I understand that the laser/molten drill is theoretical. I see I need to do more research on this drill. I was unaware that this would create molten gas. NOW THAT IS COOL.

I started reading ATS after listening to Coast to Coast. I became interested in these topics after talking with several people who worked on facilites underground in Colorado, Nevada, and Idaho. They are just normal Electricians, Pipe Fitters, Painters etc. There was no secret where they were working or that the government does have buildings underground where they study scientific projects.

The guys I know would drive to the job sites to work and pass bus loads of government workers on the way. They would not see any sign of the government workers all day, and then pass them on the way to the towns they were staying in.

This sparked my interest and I found at one sight they were doing testing on nuke subs and planes. I am not saying that this validates John Lear's story of open channels to the ocean from Nevada (I am a John Lear fan, even if I find some of his tales science fiction and some probable).

The more I read the more I am interested. When I heard that the US Air Force filed for a patent for a boring machine that was featured in a 1980 copy of a magazine. This really got me thinking.

I don't know what they are doing, but I have some ideas.

The USAF did get their TBM,heres the pic.


[edit on 3/26/2008 by jkrog08]

The problem here with the posters who think this doesnt exist because "justifacation" are not accounting for the fact that this was/is a black project and therefor needs no justifacation,anyways I think quick transport b/w top secret bases would be enough.

reply to post by Mac Harper


How do you know this?Do you have inside sources.One thing that is really odd is when you Google this hardley anything comes up,my thread(lol)and like three others that really dont relate-it all ends with official documents at a company called Rand,all they are I believe is publishing company that published the origional theroies,after that its just mentioned in DUMB(deep underground military base's) sites.It kinda dissapeared from view after it was proposed,I know some will say thats cause t doesnt exsit but I dont think so if you apply that logic than that means EVERYTHING you here about pleadians and reptoids is true since there is so much on it-in my opinion if its Earth bases and real the gov. will cose all doors to it.

after some extensive searching for the origin of that picture above with the "air force TBM" it finally leads me to a rense.com page link that says at the end of the caption

Source: U.S. Department of Energy, Nevada Operations Office, photo number MX-027-30, 14 December 1982.

and after searching for anything related to that It simply takes me back to the rense article sooo unless someone knows the source and can confirm that picture I would not IMHO count it as reliable.

and it just kinda seems silly that if this was a black op project, and I think it was, too put the official logo on the side.

or maybe I am giving them to much credit.

G force no need to say anything else yea you can take this train but it will smash your eyes threw your head.

Originally posted by ohioguy646
G force no need to say anything else yea you can take this train but it will smash your eyes threw your head.

This statement has no basis in fact. As has been mentioned in other posts, you need only accelerate at 1 G for 10.5 minutes to reach over 14,000 mph. It is fairly simple math.

Two equations are required.

d=1/2(Vf+Vi)t
a=(Vf-Vi)/t

Vf -- final velocity
Vi -- initial velocity (equals 0)
t -- time (assuming equal accel and decel, .5 x 21 min = 630 s)
d -- distance (equals half distance between LA and NY, 1231 mi)
a -- acceleration

First, solving for Vf.

1231 = 1/2(Vf+0)630
Vf = 1231/315 = 3.908 mi/s = 14069 mph

Second, solving for required accel.

a = (3.908-0)/630 = .006203 mi/s/s = 32.75 ft/s/s

1 G = ~ 32.17 ft/s/s

My car can accelerate at a rate of .5 G. Fighter pilots experience 4 G without much effort.

None of this means I believe there is a high speed train in a tunnel going from LA to NY

erwalker

Ahhh..
I knew I had seen that picture of the Air Force boring machine. Thank You. You know the more I study I see that the best way to hide stuff is to not hide it.

You know even if the rate of travel in these tunnels was 200 mph it would still be really fast and effecient. Consider that most of the known bases are within an hour or two of each other. In reality this is possible and likely.
Now why could they not go faster than super trains in a vacume?

Say like 400mph.
This would take travel time to one half.

Say we did have magnetic/vacume tubes.

Maybe???

reply to post by 911fnord


Hi 911fnord,

Thanks for your comments, it's appreciated.

I think the main problem with the military use of continental tunnels in a post 'first strike' scenario is that all the major bases and miliary points would have been nuked. If the entry and exit points are the bases then there is a severe problem with tunnel access! ie a 200ft crater where the lift shaft used to be!

The great thing about places like the Greenbrier or our Burlington bunkers is that they were actually pretty well kept secrets in their day. It would be unlikely that the warsaw pact countries would have known their exact locations and therefore targetted them.
This means that, in the pre nuclear stages of a conflict the government and military heads could be evacuated to a place unlikely to suffer a direct strike. I know for sure, I'd rather be in the Greenbrier than in a deep tunnel doing 14,000 mph when a nuke gets dropped on the only way I have of getting out!

As for justification, yes they still have to justify black budgets. The black budget is not a bottomless pit! Military leaders may not have to justify it to congress but they still have to justify amongst themselves!
Lets say this thing would cost in the region of a trillion dollars, which isn't as stupid as it sounds. A military leader is going to look at the project, evaluate it's strengths and weaknesses and decide if the money from the black budget is best spent on that or other items, such as B2's, Bunkers, SR-71's, new weapons technology etc. A trillion is a lot of golden hammers!

Alternatives could be, extremely deep underground bunkers, with hardened comms links including video. Hardened secret helicopter bunkers allowing transport to other locations quickly.
Put yourself in their situation, when the first ICBM's are launched the only thing you'll be doing is getting into a deep bunker. Survive the 'first strike' and as long as you can communicate with defence forces that are still alive you can co-ordinate a defence strategy and possible counter attack. Why would you need to travel from NY to LA if you can sit in your office 300 feet down in a bunker that will keep you alive for 3 months and speak with someone on a video link?

As for TBM's, yeah we all know about the Air Force use of them. They used them to dig the test tunnels at the NTS, heck they may have even used them to dig bunker access (Yucca). TBM's are no new thing really. The one pictured in that photo is a standard mechanical cutting TBM, no nuclear TBM.
OK so lets assume they use one of those to cut a tunnel from NY to LA, that's 2,385 miles as the crow flies.
Ok, the channel tunnel is 31 miles, making it 76 times shorter than this hypertunnel.
The Channel tunnel only really had to deal with a couple of different types of strata, all relatively soft chalk. There were several nearly deadly moments where the project was nearly destroyed by entering even softer rock and water pockets!
This tunnel would be dug though many more rock types, posing much more problems, essentially slowing down the project massively. But lets assume by some miracle that boring technology in the 60's was better than it was in the 90's and that the rock substrate was soft chalk all the way across the continent therefore meaning they dug at the same speed.

How long would it take? 20 years, 30 years, 40 years and they are still digging today? No it would take 532 years! Ok...lets assume they had developed a nuclear powered TBM 50 years ago that was 10 time quicker! They'd still be digging today! That's one serious project just to get a few people from one side of the country to the next!
OH yeah....and having done all that, make sure none of the thousands of people working on it over 3 generations breathes a word of it to anyone!

Sorry I just don't buy it. But I could be wrong.

Cheers

Robbie

reply to post by stratsys-sws


thanks stratsys your comments are appreciated as well.

And I will say you do make some good points and at this point we would just have to agree to disagree (and I know most of you reading this dont understand this concept but dont worry it actually exists ) on the final point again, justification.

I guess I just have this sorta of "evil genius" kinda skewed view of the military powers at hand. Like I said I logically agree with your points but most times I try to apply logical reasoning to actual shared reality then its gets quite muddled.

so basically I have no real argument for the justification other than the thought process of "if we can....why not?"

great thread with great posts, lets see if we can get some more discussion going this topic greatly interests me.

edited for spelling

[edit on 27-3-2008 by 911fnord]

It all sounds interesting... granted, I've only had time to read the first few posts. However, I'm wondering what would happen to the tunnel system in the event of an earthquake. That would seem to be a rather dangerous situation. I'm apologize if this has already been asked and answered.

I have been fascinated by this subject since the 1980's and there are plenty of genius argument and speculation on this thread- with that I say big KUDOS to all who have presented and hypothesized within and in respect to the policies of this thread. This is one of those threads that can easily get hijacked- even unintentionally!

I have nothing to add by way of evidence, speculation and/or theory because it has all seemingly been covered at least to my satisfaction.

I may have missed this the answer to my simple question because I have read all materials available- some I was able to skim as over the years I have been familiar with the posted links.

Further, I have ready every comment and I may have, in my confusion and processing abilities- got overloaded and missed something. So please forgive me if this is redundant as it is not my intention. I have a question for the "experts" in particular:


PHYSICAL EFFECTS:

Is there a vaccine or procedure which could assist in helping a person to "absorb" the the biological side-effects of traveling at such speeds and pressures?

SMALL SCALE TECHNICAL EVIDENCE:

Most amusement/theme parks have introduced "thrill" ride attractions capable of producing magnetic, fly-wheel launch, air-thrust and various combinations of each. here are a few examples:

www.youtube.com... (Kinda- cable/magnetic)


www.youtube.com... (Hypersonic- Airthrust- listen to the mechanics after the coaster train launches- the audio is more interesting than the video)

www.youtube.com... (volcano multi element launch ride).

www.youtube.com... (Maverick multi launch-multi element coaster).


www.youtube.com... (Superman- magnetic launch device).

I posted these for their small scale technology. I have always thought that amusement parks were like petrie dishes or possibly places where the powers that be offer drippings to the poor (serious/sarcasm).

The magnetic rides lose functionality gradually over time and are not reliable for maintaining speed and performance- however- combination-launch thrill ride technology is more reliable.

The Maverick coaster at Cedar Point is amazing in that I have ridden it myself and it was very comfortable and fun. The forces experienced, design and layout all combined were not possible. When I rode this I was in awe scientifically and physically and my head just buzzed with Q& A's.

There is planning for far more extreme rides that launch over 250 MPH and will reach altitudes of 1000 ft! I have seen many of these plans and visited sites.

I believe this is all somehow related and here is where I see a positive light at the end of the proverbial tunnel. Could these thrill rides and parks be a training ground for the public to get used to the technology THEY already operating?

I know the videos are difficult to watch and kind of stupid- they are just a reference.

Aqua-terra planetary transport system and development pneumatic and electro-magnetic underwater tube-link transportation system Document Type and Number:United States Patent 7114882 Link to this page:www.freepatentsonline.com... Abstract:An aqua-terra planetary transport system and development system utilizing a pneumatic and electromagnetic underwater tube link transportation system to move passengers and cargo rapidly between a network of interconnected land based terra station and ocean based aqua stations. The aqua stations are all self-sufficient and derive power from natural resources and have means for agriculture and manufacturing.

I found this patent and description

Originally posted by pavil
Where did the money for this come from and why was it built?

From $500 hammers and $1000 dollar toilet seats.