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Originally posted by Darkpr0
Check this out.
More photos
These are claimed to be pictures of the remnants of the crashed Su-35BM bort '903'. There's 7 pictures in total, and the a/c is completely torched. Cockpit isn't even attached anymore and the paint job is nonexistent, so we get no clues as to how it looked prior to becoming shrapnel, unfortunately. Enjoy.
Pr0
Originally posted by ironfalcon
It's actual bort number was 904, IIRC.
903 was a static test airframe.
Originally posted by Darkpr0
reply to post by James R. Hawkwood
Nice find on the pic
That's pretty definitive, I'd say that bort '904' is the crashed one and the static test craft was, in fact, '903'. Kind of saddens me that 904's paint job matches 902, but I suppose it's better than the one that 901 was sporting . Hopefully we'll see 905 out of the factory pretty quick.
Originally posted by solidshot
Originally posted by Darkpr0
That was pretty quick for 100 flights. The aircraft seems to be on the fast track to introduction and use. Good for them .
The fact that they seem to be in a hurry with the testing could surely be due to this? also how will this aircraft really compare to the western equivalents?
Last year, the Kremlin set out plans to increase spending on Russia's armed forces over the next two years. Russia will spend nearly $140bn (£94.5bn) on buying arms up until 2011.
BBC
Barring awacs support, you'd probably want to very quickly minimise your velocity after you launch your own missile until the missile's active homing can pick up final approach.
The objective of the testing was to fire the AMRAAM missile from a Eurofighter Typhoon whilst its radar was in passive mode and thus “invisible” for Electronic Support Measures (ESM) Systems. The necessary target data for the missile was acquired by the radar of a second Eurofighter Typhoon and transmitted using the Multi Functional Information Distribution System (MIDS). Both aircraft were separated by quite a distance in range
Originally posted by C0bzz
Most legacy aircraft could super-cruise in some conditions, like when they have all the munitions removed while being low on gas. It's nice but there is not much actual difference between Mach 0.95 and Mach 1.02.
Typically you want to maximize the distance between you and the enemy - usually done by flying at the largest angle possible without breaking lock (usually about 60 degrees).
It's a massive advantage for aircraft with ESA radars that can be swiveled - the Su-35BM for example can fly AWAY from the target while guiding its own missiles for the kill. If the F-22 even gets the cheek arrays then it will be abled to do this. IIRC, with even more modern aircraft (F-35 / Eurofighter / others w/ good datalinks) it's possible to get friendlies to guide your own missile.
As far as I know, the Su-27 could sustain low supersonic flight (at least Mach 1.1~1.2, if I remember) on military power with air to air ordnance and full internal fuel load(around 9 tons, if I remember correctly. Indeed, I just checked wikipedia and it says 9.4 tons).
I should think launching at 60 degrees off target would reduce the missile engagement envelope considerably with burn time lost in changing heading. So at least till you launch you need to be facing your foe or whatever angle is optimum for a firing solution.
And even afterwards, what good is supercruise in the engagement? So you can close down the gap to the bogeys the enemy aircraft launched at you, faster?
Isn't it a far better proposition to slow down as much as possible right after having launched? Barrel Roll at high AOA, if the pilot can take it, should do the trick. Just not too high an AOA or you'll break lock.
Why would you want to fly into his missiles?
Originally posted by FredT
reply to post by James R. Hawkwood
It look spretty bad but ive seen some pics of airframes with it and flying against mixed terrain and its pretty effective actually.
Aestetics aside, why would you have an airframe still under construction painted? Most are almost always green and the paint comes later
Originally posted by arbitureHow does this compare to western fighters?
When stealth became common knowledge in the late 1980's, other manufactors in particular Russia at first coulden't match us.
So they emphasized manuverability over stealth.
This approach has it's fans.
The SU-35 is more manuverable then both our new F-22 and JS-35. This is most usefull when an aircraft is with in visiual range.
Our aircraft are optimized for attack beyond visual rage.
Once they see each other we use the M-61 Vulcan cannon, the Russians use their copy of our M-61.
Then you need old fashioned dog fighting skills. The Russians figured this out and developed their own version of "top gun". I have seen them in action and they are very good.
I always felt there was a flaw in the idea stealth would solve all our problems. At the end of the day we need to consider all aspects of fighter performance, and not rely on one technology to save our butts.
Originally posted by James R. Hawkwood
Realy? Instead of soley foccusing on maneuvering they also went for improving the stealth capabillities. I must admit it wasnt radar stealth but stealth on the infa-red and visual fields.
The 35BM? I must say that it is slightly better then the EF-2000 and has an airframe that has been proven to be very good. I would say that it is the best 4.5th gen AC out there.
Russia did manage to match US developments in stealth but where plagued by cash shortages and eventualy, the breakup of the Soviet Union. If the latter didnt happen then Russian stealthy fighters would be in service earlier then American ones.
That is very true indeed. The TVC nossels on the 35BM have a greater degree curve then the ones on the F-22.
Aside from F-22 missing IRST sensor and not having ultra long range weaponary i must agree.
I always felt there was a flaw in the idea stealth would solve all our problems. At the end of the day we need to consider all aspects of fighter performance, and not rely on one technology to save our butts.
For obvious reasons because you dont focus soley on radar stealth.
Originally posted by C0bzzPity it came over 10 years later, won't be fielded in any numbers, and likely doesn't come close in terms of maintainability and interoperability. But yes, very good aircraft, good kinematics and a very powerful flashlight to shine in peoples eyes.
Baloney.
Also I thought they didn't focus on radar stealth because that would be putting all eggs in one basket? Why would they attempt to get radar stealth if an upgraded current aircraft would do? Why is the PAKFA apparently stealth?
A greater degree of curve?
And which one is fights clean and can fly at Mach 1.7+ on dry power?
Why have an IRST sensor when all other aircraft are easily detected with excellent, unparalleled, AESA and RWR, at very long ranges all because they apparently don't focus (or are simply unable to obtain) on radar stealth?
The hope that a big PESA radar and IRST will detect these aircraft at significant ranges is merely playing catchup.
Long range missiles like what? All I can come up with is the SARH R-33, non-existent R-37 & Novator K-100 and an upgraded R-27 with R-77 seeker?
Originally posted by C0bzzPity it came over 10 years later, won't be fielded in any numbers, and likely doesn't come close in terms of maintainability and interoperability. But yes, very good aircraft, good kinematics and a very powerful flashlight to shine in peoples eyes.
That is very true indeed. The TVC nossels on the 35BM have a greater degree curve then the ones on the F-22.
A greater degree of curve?
And which one is fights clean and can fly at Mach 1.7+ on dry power?
Because it's entirely passive? And affords great detection and tracking range when you're behind your target with the sun behind you?
Why have an IRST sensor when all other aircraft are easily detected with excellent, unparalleled, AESA and RWR, at very long ranges all because they apparently don't focus (or are simply unable to obtain) on radar stealth?
Radar technology is not stagnant and is far cheaper to develop and put into service thus making playing catchup to stealth more feasible than redesigning your stealth aircraft every few years trying to wedge in a little more stealth to compensate for the stealth you lost to advancements in detection and tracking technology. Also, there's always the brute force approach with AWACS or ground radar simply burning through your stealth. And IRST, if you can see the raptor's arse.
The hope that a big PESA radar and IRST will detect these aircraft at significant ranges is merely playing catchup. Long range missiles like what? All I can come up with is the SARH R-33, non-existent R-37 & Novator K-100 and an upgraded R-27 with R-77 seeker?
And the Su-35BM focuses on what? Excellent maneuverability, a nice paint job, large air to air payload, marginal super-cruise, loads of fan-boys, nice airshow displays, good sensors and avionics?
And the F-22 is fielded in any numbers?
He meant they can swivel more. And in two directions. Not just pitch but also yaw.
You're talking out your chaff and flare orifice. I suggest you look up the Al-41F engine.
Because it's entirely passive? And affords great detection and tracking range when you're behind your target with the sun behind you?