When is it time for Civil war?

I just don't understand this. Last time we had a U.S. Presidential election, it was stolen. Its happening all over again. Im a Ron Paul supporter 110 percent and I see electoral fraud going on robbing him of his votes and giving them to Mccain or Hillary. I just cannot cannot cannot wrap my brain around this. What the F is going on here? Are we all just going to sit complacently while criminals in power do whatever the hell they please? Are we going to let this farce continue? When I was a little kid in school I would recite the pledge of allegence and sit in history class learning about the founding fathers and the constitution and the bill of rights and It meant something. How can we let them get away with this? This outrageous criminal behavior? People need to be held accountable. I just want to know what the hell it takes to get the ball rolling because I've been waiting and praying for something, anything, to set it off. The time is now. The time is NOW! When unholy and currupt forces of evil tyranize the weak the righteous must act swiftly, violently, decisively to make a better world for the generations to come. I refuse to bring a child into this world where you are born into debt slavery, chipped and tracked like an animal, marginalized and lied to by those who are supposed to represent us. Politicians no longer represent the people. They only represent the corperations whose lobbyists line thier pockets. Cruel decievers. Extortionists. The corperations, the aristocracy they have no moral compass. Only greed. If you want to know what God thinks of money just look at the people he gives it to.

I really, REALLY, hate to admit it, but this same sentiment has been lingering in some dark corner of my mind, as well. Up until now, I have been hesitant to accept that there really is some sinister force, or some "shadow government", working behind the scenes toward some global agenda. However, in light of recent events and the way things are playing out, it is quite clear at this point that our so-called "leaders" WILL DO AS THEY PLEASE, with complete disregard of the Constitution, and they are certainly NOT looking out for ANY of the interests of the American people.

We are broken. And no matter the outcome of this coming election, I know who I will be standing beside.

Originally posted by guyopitz
Last time we had a U.S. Presidential election, it was stolen.

Only if you considered yourself a democrat. The republicians think that things came out just fine. It's all your point of view.

this is from Wikipedia, sure not everyone accepts wiki as a good source since anyone can modify it but I think on average it isnt too far off.

Among the issues raised in 2004 were:

Obstacles to voter registration.
Improper purges of voter lists.
Deliberate voter suppression.
Practical impediments to voting, such as excessively long lines.
Accuracy and reliability of voting machines, and ease of undetected interference in their operations ("hacking"), especially those employing electronic voting.
Other inaccuracies in the official count of votes cast on Election Day, whether through carelessness or deliberate tampering.
Problems with absentee ballots and provisional ballots.

Im just saying no matter who won, no matter the outcome, these issues SHOULD have been a top priority to have resolved in the 4 years leading up to this election. Im still seeing problems and they only seem to have grown worse. As if the powers that be think they can get away with just about anything at this point. Everyone is so spun by mass media that most people don't have a clue whats up.

Its a crying shame.

Well then what are you doing sitting here and posting?

If you want to do something, then get off your butt and form the groups or whatever....

I'm not encouraging you to do it but just saying / asking.

EDIT -

Actually, this might be a bad idea for a civil war, because you might ruin politican's plans that are for the better, which you probably don't know. For example: I believe in the North American Union...

EDIT2 -

Forget it, I don't even know anymore just do whatever you want.

[edit on 14-1-2008 by TheoOne]

Im a level headed guy. Im going to wait and see how it pans out before I fly off the handle. Clearly violence is the last resort of a desperate populace. We all want our civil liberties but really how many of us would give their lives in sacrifice toward the cause of righting the wrongs of curruption and greed infesting our government. Few. Very very few. Complacency has us all by the balls. The change has been so subtle, so insidiously gradual that our civil liberties are dying with a whimper rather than a scream.

Im not sure if Im right, I know im not in the majority but in my heart I know the path we are on is wrong. Just plain wrong. I feel like one of those buddhists who pours a can of gas on himself and burns himself in protest. What can one man do to show the world, to shock the world enough to see the error of its ways.

I see more homeless on the streets every day. I know its because this war has run our economy into the ground. I think if I were in their shoes, Id start chucking molotov cocktails into government buildings.

Originally posted by guyopitz
I see more homeless on the streets every day. I know its because this war has run our economy into the ground. I think if I were in their shoes, Id start chucking molotov cocktails into government buildings.

People aren't homeless because they can't find work. Most homeless people are alcholics, drug-addicts, or have mental issues. If they have a bottle of vodka, they're not going to waste it by throwing it at a building. They'll just drink it.

reply to post by dbates


3 years ago I would have agreed about homeless people.

Things are changing more and more rapidly. The economy is tanking, jobs are dissapearing, the dollar has collapsed, Financial institutions are shuddering their doors and laying off thousands.
There were 65,000+ foreclosures in the Atlanta Metro area last year.

When people start going to the grocery and can't afford food then you will see folks hitting the streets. When people who work 40 hours a week are sleeping in their cars for lack of housing, then you will see the rifles coming out of closets (trunks) and the torches being lit.

As far as elections getting stolen? Even Republicans lose when someone controls the votes. Whether or not a Republican wins if "They" decide who runs your country and not the people, where does that leave all of us.
Sometimes seeing the truth and danger we are in is more important then toeing the party line. Especially when it has become so clear that both Dems and Republicans are the same damn thing with the same damn agenda. Left vs. Right, Dem vs. Republican, Liberal vs. Conservative. LIES. It's time we all stop playing to that BS now, isn't it. We need to defend ourselves, not "Them".

America is in decline, like every Empire before.

Originally posted by Tinhatman
Things are changing more and more rapidly. The economy is tanking, jobs are dissapearing, the dollar has collapsed, Financial institutions are shuddering their doors and laying off thousands.
There were 65,000+ foreclosures in the Atlanta Metro area last year.

When people start going to the grocery and can't afford food then you will see folks hitting the streets.

...

America is in decline, like every Empire before.

You obviously didn't live through the 1970s & early 80s

* Price of oil quintupling
* 10% to 14% Inflation
* Interest rates above 20%
* 8% to 10% Unemployment

This "America is in decline" thing has all been said before...

reply to post by Reality Hurts


Truly, but from the way things are coming together now what we are about to experience will make the 70's look like happy times. This is the perfect economic, military adventurist storm. I have study economics pretty intensely and what we are seeing now more closely parallels the Great Depression more then the slump and quakes of the 70's.

We have experienced a long slow motion bout of hyper inflation and indeed, some economistssay this is all part of the 70's crap.

I think there is some pretty good statistical evidence that the vote machines in New Hampshire were tampered with. A comparison of hand counted districts with voter machine districts strongly suggests foul play.

I agree that a revolution of sorts is needed. I would prefer a non-violent one. However even if this were a war so to speak we have one big problem. Just who are the bad guys? Do you have evidence of malfeasance? Would you feel OK with shooting a Bilderberger or CFR member because of hearsay?

I know I wouldn't. I need smoking gun evidence before exercising my constitutional right to overthrow the government. Unfortunately the bad guys are hiding behind their desks and in their limousines, or hunkered down in their deep underground bases and we have no way of sorting out who are enemy is. How can you fight an enemy you don't know?

reply to post by SevenThunders


Yeah, need super evidence before I would ever turn a gun another human being in offense. Now if they come through my front door...

Americans do not care about voter fraud. If we did, we would all stop voting. Think of it this way: %80 or so of Americans are against the war, Yet in every primary we have had people have voted overwhelmingly for Pro-War candidates and Washington Insiders who are the problem they think exists. They do not care that there is any voting fraud. True there has been vote fixing but MOST PEOPLE REALLY ARE VOTING FOR THE PRO WAR CANDIDATES EVEN THOUGH THE PEOPLE THEMSELVES ARE AGAINST THE WAR.

The revolution --if it starts-- begins when money is worth nothing, food is scarce, unemployment is high, frustration boils over. If vote fraud would do it it would have happened already. Our elections are about as crooked and ill managed as elections can be. If it weren't for Ron Paul I would not be voting at all. I do not think it will make a difference, "they" will just Diebold my vote right out of existence but I have to try.

Yous need to get a copy of the Constitution and see what there doing to yous. Listen to your forefathers who have said over and over, that paying into an "Income Tax" system will only invite corruption in the government and that they should be watched over like any other business. This is why they Guaranteed it in the Constitution not to be able to apply income tax to working citizens.

Google Video Link

America: Freedom to Fascism

Google Video Link

Paradigm Education Group's Mini-Intro Video

[edit on 15-1-2008 by SpaceBits]

I too would need massive amounts of proof before open armed conflict. However when they start to round up people for the camps I will have to seriously consider. I would not want to be like the ones in Germany and sit and wait for my turn in the camps. I think that I may have to try and help the first wave, even if I did not agree with their views. It has to start somewhere and we will need to put a stop to it before it starts. All people have these rights even if we oppose their views and all should stand for freedom when the roundup starts. My two cents worth.

respectfully

reluctantpawn

In my opinion the support is there for Paul but it doesn't translate to getting out and voting. I was dog tired after work today & my wife has a wicked flu. I had to come home and start dinner, then run out and pick up my kid and bring her back home from a friend’s house. I got dinner on the table and ran out and voted for Paul before the polls closed and then put my skirt back on and did some laundry.

When I add up the cost I could have just blown off the 5 minutes it took to vote but I felt compelled and I would have felt like crap in the morning if I didn't go. I would have felt I let down the other Paul supporters as well. I doubt Paul will start a third party run for the white house after this farce is over so at least I can say I voted for him before the actual "election."

Anyway, I am looking at the returns and I am very disappointed. The thing is they are still talking about the ex myor of NY and he wasn't in the top four but no mention of Paul. Paul clearly has a message, he is a solid family man and has clear goals of what our country should be. Its either one of two things. The votes are being stolen or people are sheeple... I suspect its the sheeple thing.

Mitt is a joke. He has no clue as to what this country needs. McCain is too old and could care less about the economy and the Hukster is another right wing conservative that would be glad to carry the torch of expanding our commitments overseas. A Clinton/Obama ticket is a shoe in with what we have now and then you will see this country go so far to the left in an extreme we haven’t seen since Fidel to Cuba.

Whatever man... I got towels to fold...

reply to post by Tinhatman


It makes me wonder who is preparing to seize power when the time could possibly come. After all, the more prepared a group is, the fewer casualties there would be I expect in the starting events. No doubt some paramilitary groups and others would move to fill in the power vacuum, seizing control of whatever they can.

Originally posted by guyopitz
The time is now. The time is NOW! When unholy and currupt forces of evil tyranize the weak the righteous must act swiftly, violently, decisively to make a better world for the generations to come.

Civil War = millions dead. Civil War = killing your fellow citizens. Civil War = possible takeover by a Dictator.

Not to mention I think forming a group to launch a Civil War on ATS would be against the T&C

Every time a Paul Supporter makes a statement like this it costs him votes. It is utter madness to for anyone to desire a Civil War instead of joining the current system and helping to change it. Why would you want to kill your neighbors?

Think about what you just posted on the Internet?

Righteous? As in Divine Inspiration? As in on a mission from God?

Originally posted by guyopitz
I just don't understand this. Last time we had a U.S. Presidential election, it was stolen. Its happening all over again. Im a Ron Paul supporter 110 percent and I see electoral fraud going on robbing him of his votes and giving them to Mccain or Hillary. I just cannot cannot cannot wrap my brain around this. What the F is going on here? Are we all just going to sit complacently while criminals in power do whatever the hell they please? Are we going to let this farce continue? When I was a little kid in school I would recite the pledge of allegence and sit in history class learning about the founding fathers and the constitution and the bill of rights and It meant something. How can we let them get away with this? This outrageous criminal behavior? People need to be held accountable. I just want to know what the hell it takes to get the ball rolling because I've been waiting and praying for something, anything, to set it off. The time is now. The time is NOW! When unholy and currupt forces of evil tyranize the weak the righteous must act swiftly, violently, decisively to make a better world for the generations to come. I refuse to bring a child into this world where you are born into debt slavery, chipped and tracked like an animal, marginalized and lied to by those who are supposed to represent us. Politicians no longer represent the people. They only represent the corperations whose

lobbyists line thier pockets. Cruel decievers. Extortionists. The corperations, the aristocracy they have no moral compass. Only greed. If you want to know what God thinks of money just look at the people he gives it to.

The war has started. You don't understand the weapons. -------PC

reply to post by guyopitz


Listen, I voted for RP but you're a little off target on this whole civil war thing I think.
I know the actual word usage of civil war and revolution are pretty similar, but I think that you may be misleading some with your choice of thread title.

By using civil war in an American context you're implying that you will be taking arms up against a faction of fellow Americans. This may be your intention I don't know, but I think you may be better off asking about revolution.

I agree that our government is broken; while Bush is stoking the fires in the middle east with huge arms sales to the Saudis and making comments to provoke Iran our wonderful democratic congress has been hard at work making sure that their cafeterias have healthy imported foods instead of passing any meaningful legislation.

The concern I have is this; The Sons of Liberty wouldn't have posted online about their coming revolution, so maybe doing so here isn't such a good idea either. It's hard enough to get people to vote much less join the fight in toppling our government.

If the day comes where change is needed and action taken I feel that Americans (and humans in general) are up to the task.

That being said, and I'll repeat that I did vote for RP in NH, your original post screams of immaturity. To suggest that because the person who you believe is the best suited for the job didn't get the votes that you expected or had hoped for that you will then call for armed conflict with our government is asburd especially at this stage.

I do feel your frustration and anger at all of this but as an earlier poster stated the 70's pretty much sucked ass too and we made it out relatively unscathed.

I don't mean to appear rude or condescending in any way it's just that if you feel the need to prepare for something than do so yourself and out of sight. Quietly gather what you need and have a plan that you can stick to in the unfortunate event of civil unrest.

Originally posted by pc is here

Originally posted by guyopitz
I just don't understand this. Last time we had a U.S. Presidential election, it was stolen. Its happening all over again. Im a Ron Paul supporter 110 percent and I see electoral fraud going on robbing him of his votes and giving them to Mccain or Hillary. I just cannot cannot cannot wrap my brain around this. What the F is going on here? Are we all just going to sit complacently while criminals in power do whatever the hell they please? Are we going to let this farce continue? When I was a little kid in school I would recite the pledge of allegence and sit in history class learning about the founding fathers and the constitution and the bill of rights and It meant something. How can we let them get away with this? This outrageous criminal behavior? People need to be held accountable. I just want to know what the hell it takes to get the ball rolling because I've been waiting and praying for something, anything, to set it off. The time is now. The time is NOW! When unholy and currupt forces of evil tyranize the weak the righteous must act swiftly, violently, decisively to make a better world for the generations to come. I refuse to bring a child into this world where you are born into debt slavery, chipped and tracked like an animal, marginalized and lied to by those who are supposed to represent us. Politicians no longer represent the people. They only represent the corperations whose

lobbyists line thier pockets. Cruel decievers. Extortionists. The corperations, the aristocracy they have no moral compass. Only greed. If you want to know what God thinks of money just look at the people he gives it to.

The war has started. You don't understand the weapons. -------PC

Carefully, precisely there must be an NWO-ectomy. Not easy, but not impossible. -------PC

[edit on 15-1-2008 by pc is here]