Napoleon and the Jesuit-led New World Order

Vojvoda your posts have contradictions and you appear to assume I have never studied European history. I have read hundreds of books covering history, particularly europe in the 20th century.
You also imagine I don't know the full title of the Knights of Malta, when they moved to Malta they became known as the Knights of Malta, it certainly isn't necessary for me to type their full title, they are commonly refered to as the Knights of Malta, and they HQ has returned to Malta again.

You say the Vatican had influence on UK anf France but at the same time you declare with confidence that they had no power in UK/France, which is an obvious blinkered contradiction.

The Jesuits were restored in Russia after the Bolshevik revolution. You clearly don't know that the Jesuits were involved and I will assume you aren't aware of Stalins strong links to the Jesuit Order either. And your failure to make any connection between the Bolshevik revolution and its beneifits for the Jesuits are blinkered.
Yet at the same time you say the Vatican is there to control the Orthodox Chruch!!!! What do you think the Bolshevik revolution did????

I am certainly aware of the chronological events that lead to WWI. The war could have been avoided if there was the will to do it. Germany suffered most under the terms of the ending of WWI and it is widely recognised it lead to WWII, at the end of which Protestant Germany was truly destroyed.
Napoleon furthered the ambitions of the Roman Catholic Church in France, you have tried to put a spin on it and play down the move as trivial and insignificant when it clearly was significant for those involved and Napoleon came under much pressure for it. The role of a Jesuit Abbe as one of Napoleons chief advisers has also passed you by, you imagine it wasn't significant. Others might wonder why a Jesuit Abbe had such a prominant role in the French Revolution and the rise of France, it seems it is beyond you to see any significance in it.

Austria was also a Roman Catholic stronghold, and by the end of Hitlers reign Germany would become predominantly Roman Catholic also.

The UK was definitely under some kind of influence of the Jesuit Order, so much so that in 1885 Queen Victoria opened the British arm of the Knights of Malta, and the current Queen is the leader of the same British arm of the Knights of Malta. The Knights of Malta have allegiance to the Vatican.

It seems clear you have a very simplified view of history, not being able to question the real motives behind events, and the actual outcomes of those events.

This thread was mostly about Napoleons wars and how it benifited the jesuits. If you can't see it benefited them then you simply aren't aware of the facts. After Napoleons wars the Jesuits were resotred despite being banned FOREVER by the church some years previously. Have you ever wondered what brought about such a dramatic U-turn, what motivation was there??? Countries that had banned the jesuits and warned them never to return under penalty of death had readmitted them later!!!

Are you aware that Czar Alexander even attempted to open discussions with the Jesuit Order to support his coming war effort against France at a time when the Jesuits were supposedly surpressed by the Pope??? It shows that Alexander obviously assumed the Jesuits had alot of power and influence (perhaps you imagine you know more than Alexander did). Many Jesuits moved to St. Petersburg as well as to Britain, where Britain gave them protection under King George III. The monarchs who had been disposed by Napoleon also received haven in Britain at the same time, and when those monarchs were restored they in turn restored the Jesuits, don't you see that as an usual turn of events???

I suggest the Vatican are far more powerful than you realise and they are far higher the power structure than you imagine. The Popes SMOM have enormous influence in world affairs and they have permanent UN observer status

[edit on 8-1-2008 by iezuit]

Your failure to forward anymore information whatsoever of you who feel is above the Vatican in the Power Pyramid would suggest you don't know who is above them. This would naturally mean you have no idea where the Vatican really do stand in the Power Pyramid, from, in your own words, behind the scenes.

A closer look into the Knights Of Malta, would probably be of use. And I am aware that Napoleon drove them off of Malta, that is partly what this thread is about. The Knights of Malta had expelled the Jesuits from Malta, then Napoleon drove the Knights off Malta, and there is no need for me to elaborate why that was beneficial to the jesuits. It also clearly shows that Napoleons actions did have the same purpose of punishing the Jesuits enemies. Whether you accept Napoleon was working for the jesuits or not, you should still be smart enough to realise his actions did punish the Jesuits enemies (so much so that the jesuits were restored). It is widely known that the Vatican is in the control of the Jesuit Order to this day. Have you ever wondered how the Jesuits went from being surpressed forever, to turning that around to actually control the Vatican??? Maybe you prefer to read only the very over-simplified versions of events, but anyone should be able to see the benefits for the jesuits and question the role of Seiyes in Napoleons regime.

Originally posted by iezuit
You also imagine I don't know the full title of the Knights of Malta, when they moved to Malta they became known as the Knights of Malta, it certainly isn't necessary for me to type their full title, they are commonly refered to as the Knights of Malta, and they HQ has returned to Malta again.

OK, we understand .

Originally posted by iezuit
You say the Vatican had influence on UK anf France but at the same time you declare with confidence that they had no power in UK/France, which is an obvious blinkered contradiction.

Influence in not the same as power. Vatican tried to influence UK and France to stop partition of Austria-Hungary after war ends [as A-H was the last real stronghold of Roman Catholicism in Europe]. Yes, there were secret negotiations between Vatican and France in WWI. The negotiations were between 01.08.1917 to 02.04.1918 and they failed when A-H refused peace proposal from France. After that, allies decided to finish off A-H.
And Lord George admitted 5th January 1918 that neither England nor USA planed to break up A-H.

Originally posted by iezuit
The Jesuits were restored in Russia after the Bolshevik revolution. You clearly don't know that the Jesuits were involved and I will assume you aren't aware of Stalins strong links to the Jesuit Order either. And your failure to make any connection between the Bolshevik revolution and its beneifits for the Jesuits are blinkered.

Now I see from where you’re using data:
www.remnantofgod.org...
You have to prove links between Bolsheviks and Jesuits. Stalin was student in Orthodox Seminary of Tbilisi.
Sorry, I don’t buy Phelps’ story. He has right about some things, but about many he’s wrong as I clearly see how he blame Jesuits and Vatican for everything which is black-white picture again.

Originally posted by iezuit
Yet at the same time you say the Vatican is there to control the Orthodox Chruch!!!! What do you think the Bolshevik revolution did????

No, I said “The main ‘purpose’ of Vatican is for attacking and crippling Orthodox Churches and states in Balkan and Eastern Europe which was clearly showed many times in history especially in the XX century.”

Originally posted by iezuit
Napoleon furthered the ambitions of the Roman Catholic Church in France, you have tried to put a spin on it and play down the move as trivial and insignificant when it clearly was significant for those involved and Napoleon came under much pressure for it. The role of a Jesuit Abbe as one of Napoleons chief advisers has also passed you by, you imagine it wasn't significant. Others might wonder why a Jesuit Abbe had such a prominant role in the French Revolution and the rise of France, it seems it is beyond you to see any significance in it.

You already posted:
The Catholic system was reestablished by the Concordat of 1801 (signed with Pope Pius VII), so that church life returned to normal; the church lands were not restored, but the Jesuits were allowed back in and the bitter fights between the government and Church ended.

Originally posted by iezuit
Austria was also a Roman Catholic stronghold, and by the end of Hitlers reign Germany would become predominantly Roman Catholic also.

Links between Nationalsocialism and Vatican are very well covered, so, I don’t have anything to add .

Originally posted by iezuit
The UK was definitely under some kind of influence of the Jesuit Order, so much so that in 1885 Queen Victoria opened the British arm of the Knights of Malta, and the current Queen is the leader of the same British arm of the Knights of Malta. The Knights of Malta have allegiance to the Vatican.

This is Most Venerable Order of the Hospital of Saint John of Jerusalem. They were even not recognized by Order in Rome until 1965!

Originally posted by iezuit
It seems clear you have a very simplified view of history, not being able to question the real motives behind events, and the actual outcomes of those events.

You didn’t comment that Germany itself is guilty of entering in war. Germany declared war on Russia and violate Belgian neutrality guaranteed by UK. And Germany encouraged A-H to declare war on Serbia as they knew it would lead to Great War. So, Kaiser is guilty.

Originally posted by iezuit
This thread was mostly about Napoleons wars and how it benifited the jesuits. If you can't see it benefited them then you simply aren't aware of the facts. After Napoleons wars the Jesuits were resotred despite being banned FOREVER by the church some years previously. Have you ever wondered what brought about such a dramatic U-turn, what motivation was there??? Countries that had banned the jesuits and warned them never to return under penalty of death had readmitted them later!!!

Interesting, but Jesuits weren’t suppressed in Prussia and Russia. And the question is why?

Originally posted by iezuit
Are you aware that Czar Alexander even attempted to open discussions with the Jesuit Order to support his coming war effort against France at a time when the Jesuits were supposedly surpressed by the Pope??? It shows that Alexander obviously assumed the Jesuits had alot of power and influence (perhaps you imagine you know more than Alexander did). Many Jesuits moved to St. Petersburg as well as to Britain, where Britain gave them protection under King George III. The monarchs who had been disposed by Napoleon also received haven in Britain at the same time, and when those monarchs were restored they in turn restored the Jesuits, don't you see that as an usual turn of events???

Explain.

Originally posted by iezuit
Your failure to forward anymore information whatsoever of you who feel is above the Vatican in the Power Pyramid would suggest you don't know who is above them. This would naturally mean you have no idea where the Vatican really do stand in the Power Pyramid, from, in your own words, behind the scenes.

Well, I will just add some families and persons are much more powerful than Vatican, like Rothschild family [the most powerful from all].

Originally posted by iezuit
A closer look into the Knights Of Malta, would probably be of use. And I am aware that Napoleon drove them off of Malta, that is partly what this thread is about. The Knights of Malta had expelled the Jesuits from Malta, then Napoleon drove the Knights off Malta, and there is no need for me to elaborate why that was beneficial to the jesuits. It also clearly shows that Napoleons actions did have the same purpose of punishing the Jesuits enemies. Whether you accept Napoleon was working for the jesuits or not, you should still be smart enough to realise his actions did punish the Jesuits enemies (so much so that the jesuits were restored).

Why Napoleon punished Prussia when Jesuits weren’t suppressed there? Why Napoleon attacked Russia when Jesuits weren’t suppressed there?

Originally posted by iezuit
It is widely known that the Vatican is in the control of the Jesuit Order to this day. Have you ever wondered how the Jesuits went from being surpressed forever, to turning that around to actually control the Vatican??? Maybe you prefer to read only the very over-simplified versions of events, but anyone should be able to see the benefits for the jesuits and question the role of Seiyes in Napoleons regime.

How we know that?


[edit on 8-1-2008 by Vojvoda]

reply to post by Vojvoda


Firstly I think your claim that the Rothschilds are more powerful than the Vatican is both laughable and demonstrates your clear misunderstanding of the power pyramid, as you call it.
The Rothschilds are Knights of Malta, and the Knights of Malta serve the Pope. This thread isn't about the Rothschilds and there is much threads devoted to them already, mostly of which greatly exaggerate the Rothschilds position and fails to recognise their willing subordination to the Pope in the power-structure. Rothschilds are also freemasons, which puts them under the power of the Freemason Pyramid (which leads back to the Jesuits).

Power and influence amount to the same thing, just a matter of your understanding of how much influence someone has before you term it power. For example, to have an influence over in a countries foreign policy would suggest having a certain amount of power in the countries power pyramid.

The Czar Alexander having approached the Jesuits hoping they would assisst him before Napoleons invasion is documented in numerous books (come to think of it I don't recall seeing it Phelps book, the last book I read on Napoleon was Zamoyski's, he mentioned it).

The reason the Jesuits weren't surpressed in Russia was because they were Orthodox and the suppression by the Pope didn't apply there. Peter the Great had expelled the Jesuits, but Catherine the Great permitted them to stay, the reason given being that they were useful in educational matters.

How the Jesuits went from being literally marched out of the most powerful countries in the world (and their colonies) and ordered to never to return under pain of death, to being dramatically restored and with more powers than ever before is remarkable, and it needs a clear explanation as to how they achieved it.

Yes the links between Nazi europe and their servility to the Vatican have been shown. It further supports the claim that they are higher up the power pyramid than most people imagine.

I have never seen that site you posted previously. However, I could add that the theological school in Tiflis that Stalin went to was run by Jesuit Monks, that is widely known, and I knew that long before I ever heard of Phelps book. We could start a seperate thread on the Jesuits in russia later. The Bolshevik revolution is a subject in itself, but if you didn't know Stalins Jesuit connections then you don't know as much as you had imagined.

Prussia/Germany was where Lutheranism arose and was the centre of the "heretical" Protestant church. The Jesuits didn't want to restore the "heretical" protestant nation to power again. The Jesuits were sworn to destroy the Protestant Reformation, this was one of the reasons for their foundation.

Russia was too big and geographically to inhospitable to totally control, it would have been impossible. Even reaching Moscow was a nightmare for Napoleon, so many rivers and bogs, wastelands and supplying food to his huge army was a major difficulty in the region. Also Napoleon had to keep and eye on France as the British and Spanish were threatening invasion, and they had to keep an eye on Prussia also. You are very much over-simplifying everything. Napoleon couldn't just declare war and hope his country would support him, there was much diplomacy involved also. Bear in mind that the Jesuit Order had taken haven in St. Petersburg, this is another reason why they didn't want Napoleon to destroy the city. The manipulations of the Jesuits also had to remain completely hidden from the public.
As for Napoleon aiding the cause of the RC Church, when he was marching on the Vatican he had orders from France to destroy it, but he resisted.

[edit on 8-1-2008 by iezuit]

The 13th March 1820, the Jesuits were expelled from Russia.

1829 - England expelled Jesuits.
1848 - Switzerland expelled Jesuits.
1871-1872 - Italy expelled Jesuits.
1872 - Germany expelled Jesuits.
1880 - France expelled Jesuits.

Stalin studied at the Orthodox Theological Seminary in Tiflis.

Sent to a Greek Orthodox seminary at Tiflis at 13, young "Soso" Djugashvili was expelled at 18 from the school because, said his priestly teachers, of "Socialistic heresy."
www.time.com...

Because Jesuits were expelled from Russia 1820, Jesuits’ couldn’t have any seminar in Russia! And we talk about Georgia [as a part of Russian Empire] with 0% of Roman Catholics! Simple as that.

And here is the official link: Tbilisi Theological Academy and Seminary

[edit on 9-1-2008 by Vojvoda]

Originally posted by VojvodaSimple as that

You have a very simplistic view of things. NO it is NOT as simple as that.
You have quickly skipped over the other topics you raised as you didn't have a satisfactory answer and then have jumped to this. Of course I am aware the Jesuits were surpressed again in Russia in 1820, for the second time. A move that would further indicate how the Jesuits were feared for the power they held.

This thread was really to discuss how the Jesuits managed to reverse the decisons to ban them forever from various western countries and from the Vatican itself, and how they managed to overturn those decisions??? They must have had extraordinary power to have made those achievements, and so many years after the suppression, shows they were clearly still working under cover. You are not providing any useful insights and have now jumped to their expulsion from Russia. Perhaps a bigger question for you is WHY were the Jesuits surpressed, why were they feared so much and HOW did they reverse those decisions. The position of the Jesuit Abbe in revolutionary France and Napoleons regime (and in Napoleons rise) can't be overlooked. Along with the fact that Napoleons actions had the same effect as crushing the Jesuits enemies, ie, the Monarchs of France, Spain, Portugal, Knights of Malta, Austria-Hungary, the Pope himself, and also Napoleons treatment of Orthodox Prussia/Germany and Orthodox Russia (when they both would have been very willing allies), and Napoloens downfall and the replacing of the Monarchs coinciding with the astonishing Restoration of the Jesuit Order. The benefits of Napoleons actions to the Jesuit Order are easy to see.

The Jesuits had been surpressed in Russia previously in 1719. The Restoration of the Jesuits by Lenin after the Bolshevik Revolution is significant. The Jesuits were working undercover, and it is widely known that they infiltrate many groups, and worked as Orthodox Priests as well as priests from other Orders, so as to avoid the supression. It is widely known that it was Jesuit Monks who ran the theological school in Tiflis, you will find that documented in many sources. It was for their schooling that Jesuits were permitted in Russia after the Pope surpressed them. After the Protestant/Lutheran reformation the Jesuits used schooling as a means of winning back the people to the Roman Catholic Church, and it worked, it was a very successful means of winning back people to the Church of Rome. The Jesuits didn't leave all of Russia after the supression in 1820, and they were Jesuits monks in the school in Georgia that Stalin entered, Georgia being a seperate country than Russia, but under Russian control. You will find that it is widely known and widely documented that the Jesuit monks operated in the school Stalin attended.
When the Jesuits were surpressed in Russia they weren't marched out of the entire empire (as happened in some other countries previously), they were ordered to stop teaching Catholicism, and the issue was more complicated in countries outside of Russia but under Russian control, such as Georgia, Poland, Lithuania etc. They kept teaching but under another guise. They were other Catholic Orders operating in other states under russian control, such as Capuchins and Dominicans. Some of the Jesuits pretended to be from those orders, and others pretended to be Orthodox, and for obvious reasons. In the mid-late 1700s these other Catholic Orders came under increasing suppression also. But in 1779 the Jesuits were restored in Russia and they worked with zeal to convert Russia to Catholicism. Have you wondered how they managed such a turnaround? The Jesuits hadn't fully left Russia in the first place, they were working "underground" or "undercover" until they were restored, and the same thing happened after 1820.

reply to post by Vojvoda


When the Russian Czar relaxed the pressure against Catholicism in 1905 (for only a short period), almost overnight there was almost 500,000 Catholics in Russia, which is clear evidence that some persons were keeping Catholicism alive in Russia all the time during the suppression, and the Jesuits played their part in that (probably the biggest part). Adding to those numbers it is worth noting that the Czar refused to permit many of the Catholics to declare as Catholic and were counted as Orthodox, so the number of Catholics should have been much higher.
If you are looking for evidence of Jesuit presence in Russia after 1820 and before the Bolshevik Revolution then you could look at the Jesuit Father Werczynski in Moscow as one example, he had converted thousands to Catholicism, despite the Jesuits being surpressed, a clear demonstration that the Jesuits were still very active in Russia. The Jesuits survived in Russia throughout both suppressions (just as they survived throughout suppressions elsewhere)

And you are very wrong about Roman Catholicism in Georgia. There are 80,000 of them in Tifisi and in Southern Georgian villages (some of which are exclusively Catholic). Tiflisi has 2 Catholic Churches (you may consider editing that stupid laughing face you posted after you claimed that Georgia has no Catholics)

[edit on 9-1-2008 by iezuit]

Originally posted by stikkinikki
Read Rulers of Evil by F. Tupper Saussy if you are interested in the church or almost ANY real conspiracy of the Western world.

Greetings stikknikki. I found a website forTupper Saussy and there are favourable reviews of his book from Jordan Maxwell and John Rappoport, two men whose works I admire. Jordan Maxwell was also glowing in his praise of Eric Jon Phelps work. I saw Maxwell make the introduction at one of the venues where Phelps was to speak, and Maxwell spoke very highly of Phelps book claiming it had helped him enormously to make more sense of alot of his own research.

I shall certainly put Rulers of Evil on a list of future reads. Have you read Rappoports AIDS inc, a good discussion on how BigPharma have exploited the AIDS situation and the dangerous lies they have attempted to sell the world surrounding AIDS.

[edit on 9-1-2008 by iezuit]

Originally posted by Vojvoda
[

Originally posted by iezuit
It is widely known that the Vatican is in the control of the Jesuit Order to this day.

How we know that?

I will assume you are not a Roman Catholic. If you ask any practising Roman Catholic anywhere in the world it is more than likely they will confirm to you that the Jesuit Order control the Vatican (I grew up in a Roman Catholic community).

If you have looked into the Jesuit connection to the theological school in Tiflis that Stalin entered you should have found confirmation that it was run by Jesuit Monks disguised as Orthodox Priests(that testimony came from Stalin himself in an interview he gave). It is widely known that the Jesuits have worked undercover in many other religious denominations, not only for the purpose of self-preservation during times of their suppression, but also working to infiltrate other groups. The Jesuits wished to infiltrate the Orthodox church and they gained control of the russian orthodox in 1922.

Worth noting that the same year Stalin was made the Secretary of the Communist party (after visiting Jesuit Edmund A. Walsh), the Order was re-admitted into Russia (1922) after being expelled since 1820, I have previously shown they were still very active in Russia after their suppression. As an aside, it is also interesting to note that in the movie Stalin, the actor portraying Stalin even made mention of the Jesuits when talking to Trotksy.

It is also of great significance that Stalins old schoolmaster who was supposed to have "expelled" Stalin, Archbishop Demetrius, survived[/] the Bolshevik purges of the Orthodox Church in the 1920's!!!

[edit on 11-1-2008 by iezuit]

More telling evidence of Napoleon having sabotaged his own armies efforts to defeat the retreating Russian army are found at Lubino-Valutina Gora.

Taken from Adam Zomoyskis Book "Napoleon 1812" -

The French troops had the Russians at their mercy and Napoleons failure to order the attack is considered an "uncharacterisitic mistake", one of very many that he made during the Russian Campaign. Napoleon had a remarkeable military understanding, and once he started, it was very important to win this campaign and as quick as possible, considering the situation in Europe, and Wellingtons successes in Spain. Of course Napoleon would not have made "uncharacteristic mistakes" of that magnitude and a look at his Russian campaign versus his other campaigns can be an indication of his true intentions in Russia. The effect of Napoleons Russian campaign was to weaken his army to such an extent that it permitted the restoration of the monarchs of europe, without a revolutionary French army to prevent it.

As for Lubino-Valutina Gora, even the russian army couldn't understand why the French army didn't smash them. Woldemar Von Lowestern said "Never had our army been in greater danger. The fate of the campaign and the army should have been sealed that day".

Lieutenant Colonel Von Crady (of the French Armee) was to say "If we had attacked the Russians would have been routed, so all of us soldiers and officers were eagerly waiting the order to attack.

Napoleons actions preserved the Russian army yet again in this campaign. Napoleon made so many "uncharacteristic errors" in that campaign that he must take all the blame for their defeat. In fact a study of the war in Russia will leave no doubt that Napoleon couldn't possibly have lost without such uncharacteristic errors. Of course we can assume those "errors" were so numerous and of such magnititude that there was another agenda at play. Napoleons astonishing treatment of Roman Catholic Poland and all his other potential allies before the war began all aided his downfall, but even still, he still should have routed the Russian army on more than one occasion before he ever reached Moscow.

Napoleons attack on the religiously significant city of Smolensk also highlighted more "uncharacteristic errors" which cost the lives of many of his own troops, and all needlessly. There was no military advantage in making such an assault on Smolensk, and we can assume its significance to the "heretic" Orthodox Church played some role.

Napoleon made another "uncharacteristic error" on August 13 when an energetic frontal attack would have annihilated the russian army that was in a state of confusion and all over the place. We must alwasy bear in mind that the Russian army was retreating and the French soldiers were chasing them and looking very every possible chance for an energetic frontal attack, but when those chances arose Napoleons decisions preserved the Russian army and prevented an early and easy success for his own side. Also bear in mind that the French destroyed the Russian army very quickly only a few years earlier.

Napoleons "uncharacteristic" desicion to halt his troops when the Russians were crossing the river Luchesa, and his pointless delays in Vilna are further indicators of his decisions working very much against his own Armee

[edit on 13-1-2008 by iezuit]

reply to post by stikkinikki


I haven't yet had time to get around to Saussys Rulers of Evil that you recommend.

It did strike me that Saussy's book is available on the shelf in Barnes & Noble and other outlets, yet Eric Phelps Vatican Assassins was banned from every major outlet. Phelps even had to change the name on the cover of the pacel when he posted them to UK, or the book would be returned every time.

To fully back up iezuit

Now lets look at another site and its run by Craig Oxley

z13.invisionfree.com...

I can even tell you according to Phelps,any Pope who tries to kill the Jesuit Order is ELiminated just like Pope Clement XIII

The Protocols of Zion is not written by Jews,its written by Jesuits and this statement is backed up by Eric Jon Phelps,Jack Chick and Alberto Rivera

Originally posted by Alex_H
The Protocols of Zion is not written by Jews,its written by Jesuits and this statement is backed up by Eric Jon Phelps,Jack Chick and Alberto Rivera

I have it directly from Pecos Bill, Paul Bunyon and John Henry that this is not true. They are certainly more credible than the three you mention.


Eric

reply to post by iezuit

i dont know where am i posting i know i am posting to the thread on the jesuits but i tried to post at the end and it only gives me the option to reply, basically i wanna say that the jesuits really are a terrible organization and it makes me sad that people discredit eric phelps, i have seen the jesuits indoctrinating people in argentina buenos aires, making them arrogant citizens of the world because they think they have the pope on their side, please experience the odds and then criticize, tough much respect to this thread and i say all i say with utmost respect, thanks evryone,very informative, thanks, pablo