Details emerge on the ATD-X Japanese Stealth Fighter.

Not waiting to see if they can get the F-22 Japan is moving foreward on the previously announced ATD-X. More details emerged about how the aircraft may look and perform

1) Current models shows the airframe is very similar to the F-22

2) However, the given dimensions make it smaller than the Raptor and about the size of a the Saab Gripen

3) The twin engines lie behind snaked ducts to hide the compressor blades

4) The wing configuration rules out supercruise

5) The nose of the a/c is like a duckbill with chines on either side of the cockpit

6) Testing is reported to be planned to give the aircraft an all around conformational radar (thats pretty cool)

7) Three dimentional thrust vectoring 9But stealthy paddles have yet to be designed

It has the makings of a pretty cool aircraft. Right now its a demonstrator. However, if these features make it onto a production craft, the Japanese may have an airframe that will kill off F-35 sales IMHO. At least the A model.

This may very well be the intent to force the Raptor slaes they really want.

The information in this post comes from the December 17, 2007 edition of AWST page 35

The US may come to regret ruling out F-22 sales to Japan.

Japan is an extremely technologically advanced country, if we force them to invest more heavily in their domestic defense aerospace sector, we may find ourselves with an able competitor we didn't bargain for.

Boeing and Lockmart might find themselves in the same position as GM and Ford in a decade or two - former industry leaders now struggling to catch up.



[edit on 12/18/07 by xmotex]

There are laws in place which prevent Japan exporting defence tech, also, it may sound nice but they haven't even got a protype yet, and it wont go into full production until after the f-35 is already up and making deliveries.

Most of the euro-canards could be stealth conformed faster than this plane could reach service

Pictures

Heres some pics for people who havent seen it...

This video may be of help for anyone that understands japanese. Looks a bit small though.

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by MisterVoid
Most of the euro-canards could be stealth conformed faster than this plane could reach service

well said..

But Its good to see that these guys are investing in something better than their previous endeavours.

Originally posted by MisterVoid
There are laws in place which prevent Japan exporting defence tech...

Laws don't matter when it comes to the ChiComs conducting clandestine military and industrial espionage. There have been several leaks and compromises from the JSDF with regards to the AEGIS systems we exported to them. And now China has recently fielded a similar system in one of their new naval ships.

Originally posted by MisterVoid
Most of the euro-canards could be stealth conformed faster than this plane could reach service

A conventional design will never be as LO with retrofits as one which is design from conception with stealth as the main priority. My question is; will this aircraft when/if it enters service offer anything more than the F-35 at the time will? If not than it makes little practical sense not to order the F-35A or F-35C.

reply to post by WestPoint23


I disagree Westpoint in that if it offers most of what the 35 can for at only half the price then you have a competor for a defence for a countries defence dollars. The problem with everything I said as I know is that its all pure BS at this point till the thing is made if it ever is.

reply to post by Canada_EH


The F-35's price will not unreasonably high when it hits full production, it probably won't even be close. Now consider the following, this is Japan's first ever attempt at a purely home grown advanced fighter (in the modern age). Now add stealth to that and a limited production run (in comparison to the F-35). You still think it will be half the price with the same capabilty? Given their history with the F-2, I'm not very optimistic, both in terms of price and capability.

reply to post by WestPoint23


I think in order to state it wont be over priced you have to state your figures.

[edit on 22/08/06 by Canada_EH]

The Japanese don't want the F-35, they want a dedicated air superiority machine, not a flying Swiss Army knife.

Originally this was apparently going to be an A2A version of the F-35 with less emphasis on stealth and more in kinematics, now apparently it's an entirely independent project.

And this would not be the first indigenous modern fighter for Japan - that would be the Mitsubishi F-1.

Originally posted by WestPoint23

Originally posted by MisterVoid
Most of the euro-canards could be stealth conformed faster than this plane could reach service

A conventional design will never be as LO with retrofits as one which is design from conception with stealth as the main priority. My question is; will this aircraft when/if it enters service offer anything more than the F-35 at the time will? If not than it makes little practical sense not to order the F-35A or F-35C.

Are you sure? Take the Typhoon for example, all the work has already been done on the subframe design, electronics, etc, remove the carbon fibre composite skin and replace it with a shaped for purpose skin made from a radar absorban material, move to thrust vectoring allowing a reduction in aspect of the tailfin, increase the size of the intakes (shaped for purpose of course and add a enclosed dedicated A2A payload bay, blended down into the wing (might require a 5%-8% increase in wing area to compensate, a minor fusilage stretch would probably suffice, which could also allow a 2 seat combat capable version), there would still be some problems with the shape of the top fusilage aft of the cockpit, but frontal RCS could drop quite a ways, and still stay around the same empty weight of the F-35, with superior power (currently only 2 KN more but projected tranche 3 power levels are 100KN+ per engine), handling (reduced slightly, but I doubt by much) and engine redundancy.

You'd be amazed what you can do to a good airframe if you put your mind, and a ton of money, to it

reply to post by MisterVoid


What you described there may be theoretically possible but it makes no practical sense, and I doubt it would still be as true VLO as the F-22 for example. Unless you are willing to completely design a new fighter, complete stealth is difficult to achieve. Hence why is mentioned that if that is a major goal of the JSDF then it would not make sense to purchase current generation 4.5 non VLO aircraft.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
reply to post by Canada_EH

 

The F-35's price will not unreasonably high when it hits full production, it probably won't even be close. Now consider the following, this is Japan's first ever attempt at a purely home grown advanced fighter (in the modern age). Now add stealth to that and a limited production run (in comparison to the F-35). You still think it will be half the price with the same capabilty? Given their history with the F-2, I'm not very optimistic, both in terms of price and capability.

Erm.... West Point. Is a price tag off 150 Million per F35 not a bit too much???!

My nation cant afford THAT kind off price per plane... (netherlands)

Sorry for your nation West Point but i think personaly that the price tagg is too much for a small nation like my nation...

$150 million is not a representitive price for the regular export airframes, R&D costs are front loaded into early aircraft, iirc the UK is tied to getting 12 planes for $167 million each for it's $2 billion funding of the program (though I may have this wrong)