F-22A Raptors Reportedly Intercept RuAF "Bear H" Bombers

This is probably some recon just to test the USA's defence systems. Barely anyone knows what russia is developing. Now they know that their least expensive invasion point is defended highly. It makes one wonder if any of the Air force bases have just as much defence or are weaker?
If this is the case then America will be waiting for an attack but russia has just alerted the us. I think there will be an increase of fighters heading towards alaska's airbases just to show defence. It also could be a distraction or a brief to build an aircraft able to compare to the raptors. And if the picture is released it could add alot of loyalty to the us goverment.

reply to post by Semoro


Alot of pure speculation there Semoro. Which has its place but with a look at the current problems with CAP/noble eagle missions in the states with the issue that the F-15 A-D stand down has created I doubt you will see any movement of "fighters". Your probably right on the recon part but I doubt invasion of any sort. But as I said its speculation on your part.

One has to speculate to think and do you know whats happening in the countryside of russia? I certainly don't and i wanna find out. I watched a documentry how a russia orphanage is a military school. Teaching a whole new generation how to use guns at the age of 7. It scared me to see how adept one boy was in how to fix one of the guns. Yes an invasion would be abit over the top ( I ate a packet of m&m's before so sugar rush hehe).

[edit on 1-1-2008 by Semoro]

reply to post by WestPoint23

Air Force Secretary Michael W. Wynne has said that he wants all friendly platforms in an area to be able to see what an F-22 sees with its systems. At present, this kind of "common air picture" is not attainable because existing systems cannot transmit F-22 displays to other aircraft. Pilots must communicate by voice. Several F-22s, however, can share the same situation display. Data links that will allow the transmission of more information to other aircraft is one of the planned improvements for the program.

Can somebody please explain to me why Raptor is not capable of doing what MiG-31 has been doing for over 30 years?

This simply escapes me, especially since Foxhound team tactics have been a mandatory study for Tomcat pilots, as it was considered to be the biggest threat.

Communication:
R-862 UHF, R-864 HF, P-591 voice warning system, SPU-9 intercom; SRO-2P IFF transmitter and SRZ-2P receiver; SO-69 transponder. Flight: A312 Radikal-NP or A-331 Shoran, A-723 Kvitok-2 Loran. Marshrut long-range and Tropik medium-range nav systems. ARK-19 radio compass, RV-15 radar altimeter, RPM-76 marker beacon receiver. Mission: In four-aircraft group interception mission, only lead MiG-31 is linked to AK-RLDN automatic guidance network on ground; other three MiG-31s have APD-518 digital data link to lead aircraft, permitting line-abreast radar sweep of zone 430 to 485 n miles (800 to 900 km; 495 to 560 miles) wide by 140º sector scanning angles. Semi-retractable Type 8TP IR search/track sensor under cockpit; tactical situation display. BAN-75 command link; APD-518 digital air-to-air datalink; Raduga-Bort-MB5U15K air-to-ground tactical datalink; SPO-155L RHAWS; Argon-15 digital computer.

www.defencetalk.com...

This is pretty self explanatory, and I’m surprised that Raptor pilots had to “voice vector” other pilots toward their targets.

In fact it is so powerful that the flight leader of a formation can act as a small AWACS (basically a giant plane with a giant radar) if linked to a ground radar and another air crew. It can also passively detect aircraft with a retractable infrared search-and-track sensor common to Russian aircraft, but rare on their western counterparts. The Mig-31 can even track and kill targets such as cruise missiles from ground level up to its maximum altitude.

everything2.com...

A here’s the icing on this cake. A flight of MiG-31s fly a “carousel” (US designation is “chain saw”) and use Zaslon to form a full 360 degree radar coverage and act as ABNCP, which allows them to automatically asses and assign targets to other friendly aircraft in the area with out disclosing their location, (as far as I remember its called passive DRLO mode which does not require operation of the radar), all via a fully digital encrypted jam proof data lank, covering and commanding operations in the area of over 500 square miles.

So am I to understand that currently F-22s are not capable of communicating with other systems via digital data link and have to voice guide?

How can that be with all this FCS and total SA of the digital age? This is how the Foxhound has been doing it since the last century!

"A unique weapons control system took care of the mission, enabling the aircraft to operate as an airborne command post (ABNCP). A flight of four MiG- 31s, the lead aircraft acting as ABNCP, could trade target information over a strip of terrain 800km (500 miles) wide. The interceptors could split multiple targets between themselves, or pass some of them on to the leader of another patrol if there was more that they could chew. All radio communication was automatically on channels protected from electronic eavesdroppers. Three MiG-31s patrolling an area could provide 360 degree coverage. Besides, a MiG31 could direct up to three of its fellow MIG-23P 'Flogger', MiG25PD, MiG-29 'Fulcrum" or SU-27 'Flanker' interceptors, obviating the need for them to use their own radars and thus reveal their position."

Page .82 from a pdf. "MiG-25 Foxbat, MiG-31 Foxhound, Russia's Defensive front line" published in 1997 by Midland Publishing limited and Stephen Thompson Associates.

Information provided by MiG OKB staff/designers/engineers.

forums.ubi.com...

So as it stands, even with out 5th generation stealth capability, MiG-31 flights supported by Flankers and Fulcrums can fly higher and faster then anybody else, form their own ABNCP, fend of attackers by throwing the longest and hardest hitting sticks out there (R-33/37) with the ability of “handing over” missile tracking to another MiG-31 in formation, all while directing and coordinating ambushes with Flanker and Fulcrums which have their radars turned off and IRSTs scanning coordinates which are fed to them via secured digital data-link, and then passively engage with long range R-27ETs before fully engaging with radar guided missiles.

One has to wonder what else they can do with full GCI/AWACS support.

reply to post by FredT

Thats quite a simplistic explanation of the events surrounding the shootdown of the F-117 eh? Also given the persistent rumors of the Russikies selling thier nazi like Serb brothers as well as the Iraqi's advanced air defence systems, as far as Im concerned its alot of arm chair bluffing about the invincibility of these systems

Am I to understand that a forum moderator is using racially derogatory slurs and openly labeling Russians and Serbs as Nazis?

Mr. FredT, please explain your self, there are ATS members whose family members fought Nazis through out the world and could take offense in such slanderous, preposterous and irresponsible remarks.

Serbs by the way organized a furious underground resistance movement and fought against German occupiers, while it was the Croats (Muslims) that collaborated with the Nazis and slaughtered at least 250000 Serbs.

And I do recommend that you do not attempt to site the failed propaganda opp of the “Modern Serb fascism”.

reply to post by iskander


read what he said - the F22 can do everything that the mig can do - just not link with other aircraft - just as teh mig cannot link with other aircraft - amoungst themselves with same equipment its fine - but with other aircraft with older gear it cant - the mig31 cannot link to a mig29 - so would give a voice talk through.

and FredT is making an opinion that the serbs are `nazi` like not the russians - and its his opinion.

but hey the forth reich lives in washington dc anyway so he`s wrong

[edit on 3/1/08 by Harlequin]

just as teh mig cannot link with other aircraft - amoungst themselves with same equipment its fine - but with other aircraft with older gear it cant - the mig31 cannot link to a mig29 - so would give a voice talk through.

I actually have the pdf – “Page .82 from a pdf. "MiG-25 Foxbat, MiG-31 Foxhound, Russia's Defensive front line" published in 1997 by Midland Publishing limited and Stephen Thompson Associates.”

Have you read it?

How do you figure voice talk through”? Just something from the top of tyour head?

Instead of wasting my time I’ll just repost what other informed people have already posted.

Thw MiG-31's datalink (APD-518 Intra-flight Datalink) was very very well in service when the aircraft entered servie in early 80s. Indeed, Su-27S/P (only VVS/V-PVO nomenclature have nothing to do with special setups) had also a very very similar IFDL to that of the MiG-31 since the IOC in 1985, the TKS-2-27/K-DlA, that allows up to 16 aircraft to share information (radar contacts, targetting priorities, aircrafat position, etc) over a 10sec refresh date (6.5sec for 4 group a/c, 2 sec for 2 group a/c). The datalink simbology is pretty similar in both aircfat and I would made an educated guess that both datalink are compatible.

What made the MiG-31's IFDL different from that of the Su-27S/P is that it allows full a/c control over the "slaves", this means, that the commander of the group could make control directives (just like the Vozdukh-1/Lurch series of C2BM sets) and direct their aircraft towards targets and so. This is not allowable in the TKS-2-27.

Bot aircraft had Lazur type datalinks too (running in 300-400MHz frequency with from 30 to 300bits/s of speed), while the TKS-2-27 at least could run in IFDL modes at up to 4.6kb/s of speed. I don't know if TKS-2-27 allows one Flanker to share fire control of an R-27R/ER from another Flanker, but I'm pretty sure this is a possible cpability for the APD-518 (and maybe the little improved set installed in Su-27PU specialized Long-Range Air Superiority/Air Defense Fighter for V-PVO).

Both sets could receive intercept directives AND target info from Rubezh/Senez/Lurch/Vozdukh-1 sets and from A-50 SDRLO.

The MiG-31B uses a little improved version of the APD-518 (don't know designation sorry) that allows not only to receive or interchange contacts between the group BUT also to send information/contacts to command posts (to Rubezh C2BM per example) so they can send the info through the chain to other Air Defense assets (like the Polyana-4DM or Baikal sets for control of Air Defense Brigades and Regiments), forming a better SA for all around. Also the range of comms was 4 times longer (make sense) and more jam-proof.

I don't know exactly how did the Tu-128-M4 (or wathever is called I'm not that good with those pocket-interceptors) works, but could guarante you, isn't the same thing as APD-518/TKS-2-27. From operation frequency, to bandwith to just interface...don't see it

forum.keypublishing.co.uk...

TKS-2-27 by the way does allow tracking hand off thus enabling them to run chain saws.

Did you catch the part lead where MiG-31 can actually take FULL control of other birds in the group and guide them remotely to the target?

and FredT is making an opinion that the serbs are `nazi` like not the russians - and its his opinion.

Harlequin, labeling Russians and Serbs as Nazis is not an “OPPINION”, its hate speech, and it’s appalling that such behavior is coming from a forum moderator.

I’ll wait a little longer, but I’m simply shocked to see ATS forum moderator openly spreading hate speech all while forum members call it “opinion”.

Hate speech = Hate crime!

When a skin head razes his hand and screams “sieg heil!” he’s not expressing his “opinion”, he displays his intent.

I’d like to know what other ATS mods think about this, because if this is what ATS has turned into, it’s a damn shame.

edit: spl


[edit on 5-1-2008 by iskander]

UPDATE

Photographs of the 22 November intercept of a Russian Tu-95H bomber flying near US controlled airspace in the artic have been finally released. The photos show two F-22A Raptors from the 90th FS based at Elmendorf AFB, Alaska. As I mentioned in my post previously the Raptors were carrying fuel tanks and had their transponders deployed. Note, it is not clear if these photos have been cleared for release by the DoD. The only other photo of this intercept is the one officially released by NORAD which only shows an F-22A Raptor. That picture and the accompanying article can be found on Aviation Week.



High Resolution



High Resolution

One interesting thing to note, the aft tail mounted guns of the Russian bomber are in the ready to use position. Unlike in previous missions where the guns were kept almost exclusively locked in the "up" position to show that they were in a non threatening mode. Kind of funny when you consider that the intercepting aircraft is a Raptor.