Are there age limits for participation on ATS

Recently I had my 59th birthday, and although I still think young, I am not fooled. Soon, like it or not, I will be an "old geezer" and everything I do or say will be taken in that spirit. It's OK. I can handle it.

One of the things I learned as I went along is the folly of arguing with teenagers. I won't go into all the reasons why it is stupid to argue with teenagers. Most people eventually figure it out for themselves.

I'll give you a hint though. Remember those old fashioned punching balloons for children, weighted at the bottom, that you could hit over and over, but which would always pop back up because they were weighted at the bottom?

So you say, "What is he talking about?" What I'm talking about is, "Are there age limits for participation on ATS?"

There is a thread going on right now on the 911 Conspiracies forum that was started by a 13 year old, revisiting the "no planes" theme. It has over 300 posts and over 7000 views! That's one thing, and yeah, maybe I'm just jealous because my own thread about General Ahmad hardly got noticed.

But here's another thing. Are there issues with regard to adults interracting with 13 year olds over the internet, exchanging views and arguing over many controversial issues? Do we have a responsibility to exclude people of a certain age from interaction in these forums on the grounds that it could be injurious to them emotionally, mentally, philosophically?

A 13 year old is not an adult. If this one had not announced his/her age anyone could make a different sort of assumption about him/her. Is there a problem here or am I just being silly?

Admin edit: Changed title to something more explanatory, and appropriate.

[edit on 23-11-2007 by SimonGray]

We interact with everyone. Just dont hit on them.

This forum is open for all who have a thought and who can type so we must deal with whatever. It used to bother me too, but we could have a 13 year old who can have a better view than the rest of us older folks- who knows!!!

I think we range from 13 to 80 or more

Quite the community!!!!!

Well......first of all, happy birthday to you. Second, I believe I see what you're saying. It may be the best idea of a must to require for a person to fill an age before registering on here.

But honestly, sometimes you have to remember, "Why argue with a fool?", right? So, perhaps you should ignore them and let somebody do the talking. Move on, discuss on a different topic, ya know?

How would you know the thread starter is 13 years old, by the way?

Good post.

[edit on 23-11-2007 by TheoOne]

Personally I don't really see a problem. Some kids exhibit a surprising level of intellect and maturity for their age. Meanwhile some full grown adults with kids of they're own are just... sigh... mental age and actual age doesn't match, if you get my drift.

I'd say it's not the age, it's the maturity.

Originally posted by ipsedixit
But here's another thing. Are there issues with regard to adults interracting with 13 year olds over the internet, exchanging views and arguing over many controversial issues? Do we have a responsibility to exclude people of a certain age from interaction in these forums on the grounds that it could be injurious to them emotionally, mentally, philosophically?

A 13 year old is not an adult. If this one had not announced his/her age anyone could make a different sort of assumption about him/her. Is there a problem here or am I just being silly?

[edit on 23-11-2007 by ipsedixit]

Whether or not you're being silly what you're implicitly suggesting would I think be pretty much unenforceable.

It's not the responsibility, I don't think, of ATS moderators to run age checks over people who sign up to the boards. If people value the opinion of a confessed 13 year old enough for 7000 reads of his post, and it contributes anything to the debate, I think it's fair enough. Questioning the value of the thread in the first place is rather like denying the proof you've just found in the pudding, surely - participation itself is the purpose of the site, if someone of any age has encouraged participation, then he or she has proved themselves worthy of a place on the boards.

LW

This is a thorny problem. I was just thinking of the case of a young girl who committed suicide recently because of a trick played on her by some adults using "Facebook" messages.

I'm all for free speech, and don't believe the internet should be censored in any way, but the issue of age appropriate content is a tough one.

This thread has already been censored by the Moderators because it's original title was "Farting into the wind," a reference to the folly of arguing with teenagers. It's a whimsical title, but does have a connection to the content of the thread.

As a literary type, I think the title was something of a "grabber." Are the moderators trying to improve my writing style here or is the word "fart" a little too pungeant for ATS? Whatever the case, we know that oversight and content adjustment goes on in these forums. In most cases the adjustments are fair.

I think if it were possible to adjust content for age on ATS it would be done. After all in virtually any other walk of life it is not considered desireable for young teenagers to mingle freely with adult strangers.

I don't know what the answers are. It is just a very difficult issue, for me.

Originally posted by ipsedixit
I think if it were possible to adjust content for age on ATS it would be done. After all in virtually any other walk of life it is not considered desireable for young teenagers to mingle freely with adult strangers.

That's why ATS is moderated much more closely than most other forums on the internet -- so that undesirables are quickly filtered out.

0.02 (insert your currency here)

Originally posted by ipsedixit

As a literary type, I think the title was something of a "grabber." Are the moderators trying to improve my writing style here or is the word "fart" a little too pungeant for ATS? Whatever the case, we know that oversight and content adjustment goes on in these forums. In most cases the adjustments are fair.

I think if it were possible to adjust content for age on ATS it would be done. After all in virtually any other walk of life it is not considered desireable for young teenagers to mingle freely with adult strangers.

I don't know what the answers are. It is just a very difficult issue, for me.

I agree with you whole heartedly, I just think you are talking about a problem that concerns the internet as a whole rather than ATS specifically. Addressing that problem this far down the chain of influence seems to me to be the proverbial drop in the ocean.

One might, of course, argue that it is the duty of parents to decide what internet use is appropriate for their offspring. Not easily done, of course, but there are ways and means.

Generally speaking I would suggest that blaming the internet for being so "unpoliceable" is a little misleading, because a lack of social repsonsibility manifesting itself online does not make the internet the place to start addressing the problem of a lack of social responsibility. That would be like blaming the roads because people drive too fast on them.

On the other hand, I also support the Eddie Izzard line about firearms crime: "Guns don't kill people, people do. But I think the guns help, don't you?"

LW

Originally posted by Beachcoma
Personally I don't really see a problem. Some kids exhibit a surprising level of intellect and maturity for their age. Meanwhile some full grown adults with kids of they're own are just... sigh... mental age and actual age doesn't match, if you get my drift.

I'd say it's not the age, it's the maturity.

Well brought out Beach! I'm with you here.

What we need to weed out pronto are the shape shifters and grays who seem to have proliferated ATS of late!!

[edit on 23-11-2007 by mikesingh]

reply to post by dgtempe


Hi dg welcome to Cape Cod big change from Arizona. And one must at least have the intellect of a two year old to post on ATS since most are three year olds. HAHA

Longgone

reply to post by ipsedixit


You and I are in the same age group, roughly, and I have also thought on this subject. "How unfair that these young whippersnappers have well visited threads about inane issues, and I write a piece with real meat and get four replies." Then I realized that it wasn't their fault they were young, nor that their article had more appeal than my own.

This site was began by a 16 year old, so it seems that our hoary heads missed out on a very good idea ten years ago. As stated above, age is relative, much like maturity, beauty, and a whole host of other things in life.

And I too considered the problem of the children/adult mix. But I can't cure every danger in the world, nor should I try. The problem is that we expect the government to protect us, and never to do the work ourselves. And sometimes neither we nor the government can protect enough. Sometimes the kids have to be smart enough to protect themselves.

What I can do, as a member of this particular community, at this particular time, is set a good example. I can make sure that what I write doesn't go beyond PG13/mild R rating no matter how mad I get, or how funny the quip that comes to mind. I can bear in mind that it might be my own grand daughter that reads my post.

If someone else is acting in an inappropriate way I can remind them that it's against T&C. And if I see what seems to be a minor being asked for personal information by someone who should know better, that I call attention to it. ( And trust me, after a while, you get a feeling for the undercurrents of these threads.) This is as much as I can do. It is the responsible thing as an adult to do, here and in the real world.

But I see no value, and much loss, in excluding young minds from the learning that can take place at ATS. They are our future, and the better they understand the world now, the sooner it may be improved. Better a too wise child than a too ignorant adult later on.

Enough of my rambling diatribe, It's time for my Geretol.

With all due respect ipsedixit I don't like the attitude you have put forth about young people on ATS. Your remarks only widen the gap between our generations.

I welcome the younger people to join this forum as I want to know what is on their minds. In 5 short years that 13 year old could be joing the military and fighting for our freedom.

Children should be seen and not heard is not a valid statement in this day and time. I was raised that way and it sucked. If I had been included by the adult population when growing up I might have not become a hippie in the 60's and turned to other ways to get attention and be heard.

I would rather be in a conversation with an intellegent young person than an old fool. Kids are smart, we need to listen to them. They are our ONLY future.

BTW I will be 61 in Fedruary and I spend as much time as possible with my 7 grandchildren and their friends. The ages range from 9 yrs. to 19 yrs.. I treat them with respect and they trust me and share their problems in hopes somebody older will just listen to them. I listen, I don't tell their parents their secrets, and try to help them when asked for my opinion.

Please sir, listen to our young friends...you might learn something.

reply to post by dizziedame


You say that as if being a hippy was a bad thing. We wanted to change the world. Sadly, we didn't know exactly how to attain our goals, though we did bring about a few things.

Besides, life is still for the changing, even by we fossils.

NGC if I could star your post I would and I also would have not had the need to make my post. You and I both posted at 10:40. You said what I wanted to say but much better.

Marilyn

No one is being silly.

There is no real problem either.

The simple fact is that if someone brings up strong and hard facts it will cause less discussion than someone who was seeking an answer.

There is a certain value to be appreciated in younger members - they view of the world we live in without the known information that many older members will be aware of, and as such they could consider possibilties that one would otherwise consider completely random.

That's not to say however that i acknowledge such practical creativeness, it takes a mature mind to be able to consider the theories or possibilities and decide whether or not others will have already thought of it.

Oftentimes there have been circumstances outside of the internet where i have caught myself in the process of saying "No sh*t" and stopped myself, because of the simple fact i do not wish to oppress people of their intellectual creativity.

If there is a problem, then i believe it to be close-mindedness; an unwillingness to accept that others are just as intelligent or aware of the truth of reality as they are.

This mentality could also be attributed towards egotism (i hear mutterings of "no-sh*t" coming from my subconcious ).

[edit on 23-11-2007 by Throbber]

I had work with children for a while as a teacher, most preteens minds are made up by what they learn at home.

So many issues that they will debate or have a discussion about is usually defending a point of view that is no of their own.

Is not until later on that they will develop a better understanding of the world and will bring ideas that are created by themselves.

When it comes to debates, and I get into a member that seems to completely by pass facts is better to just let it be.

Getting engage in a heated discussion base on just opinion with not logic is a waste of time.

I stopped wondering about the age of members a long time ago because it doesn't matter is the content of their post what is all about .

[edit on 23-11-2007 by marg6043]

Let's go back to the old days when children went to school 7
hours a day, came home, had a quick snack and then played outside till dark. They were riding bikes, making forts, playing ball and other kid activities. Their mom didn't have to work so she was there to watch over them and prepare a good dinner. There was no internet. Young people did get their views mostly from school and their families.

Now let's look at today. Kids go to school 7 hours, come home, have a snack then go to their rooms and connect to the internet and stay there till they have to come out to eat, take a bath or go to bed. There are many one parent families. Mom may be working and not get home till late or she is sleeping because she is tired from working 2 jobs.

Where do they get their views? Besides having a perfectly good thinking brain they soak up ideas from the internet.

Having raised 2 very successful children ages 34 and 38 who own their own businesses and having worked with young people in summer camps, girls clubs, boys clubs, and many other youth groups I consider myself well schooled on the subject of young people.

They have brains....they are very capable of forming their own views.

reply to post by ipsedixit




i find it strange that you sort of have an idea that ATS is a type of
'University' and that some of us think themselves 'Platonic Teachers'
filled with wisdom.
and that life experience is the standard of worthwhile debate,

the expression of ideas (having a Voice)
is the primary 'requirement' here (as i see it)


thanks,

Originally posted by ipsedixit
Do we have a responsibility to exclude people of a certain age from interaction in these forums on the grounds that it could be injurious to them emotionally, mentally, philosophically?

My own personal opinion is that the current policy of not allowing content and behaviour that would make this site inappropriate for younger members is a far better approach than denying younger members the opportunity to share their views and expand their knowledge.

Besides, this is the internet. The only way someone is going to know how old you are is by asking or you telling. I don't care how old someone is, I care about the content of their post and the ideas they are trying to get across.

[edit on 23-11-2007 by Duzey]

Originally posted by Duzey My own personal opinion is that the current policy of not allowing content and behaviour that would make this site inappropriate for younger members is a far better approach than denying younger members the opportunity to share their views and expand their knowledge.

I have to agree with you there with the slight addition that it makes it far more enjoyable for us old wrinklies too.
Once again I was on youtube watching some interesting vids just to be distracted by the foul inane dross they allow to stand for 'comments' underneath.

It's far better for a teenager to be learning and sharing their knowledge in here than to join the ranks of the likes of those.