Is there any "real" proof of the Dulce base whatsoever?

originally posted by: dogshark
a reply to: gariac

Disagree. Greg Valdez proposes some pretty reasonable stuff in his "Dulce Base" book and has a fair amount of evidence to back it up. Worth a read for anyone interested in the subject.

When it comes to a book on Dulce, my first question is "How free is that book?" Now if you want to present one bit of factual information from the book, do it here. Otherwise I have to assume you are just shilling for the book.

a reply to: gariac

Not a shill, friend. Just an enthusiastic reader. I'd be interested in discussing the book and the events discussed in it with others like myself. That is my only motivation for recommending the book.

If you're looking for free books I'd recommend your local library.

This has been discussed before, but one bit of evidence that something fishy was going on at Mt Archuleta is the Redding Ranch, which essentially served as a checkpoint on the road leading south to the mountain. Multiple heavy gauge steel towers with thick, bulletproof glass on both sides of the road suggest something a little more serious than hunting was going on. During the 80s the ownership of this ranch changed hands frequently between fictitious companies. There was also a heavy gauge steel bunker built with hangar-style doors and adjacent runway. These towers and bunker are still there today although the ranch is now in the hands of the Southern Utes and reports of military presence have long ceased.

None of this proves anything but it is very interesting, and taken in context of some of the other evidence it gives some food for thought about the mysterious things that were happening in the Dulce area during the 70s, 80s and 90s.

originally posted by: dogshark
a reply to: gariac

Not a shill, friend. Just an enthusiastic reader. I'd be interested in discussing the book and the events discussed in it with others like myself. That is my only motivation for recommending the book.

If you're looking for free books I'd recommend your local library.

This has been discussed before, but one bit of evidence that something fishy was going on at Mt Archuleta is the Redding Ranch, which essentially served as a checkpoint on the road leading south to the mountain. Multiple heavy gauge steel towers with thick, bulletproof glass on both sides of the road suggest something a little more serious than hunting was going on. During the 80s the ownership of this ranch changed hands frequently between fictitious companies. There was also a heavy gauge steel bunker built with hangar-style doors and adjacent runway. These towers and bunker are still there today although the ranch is now in the hands of the Southern Utes and reports of military presence have long ceased.

None of this proves anything but it is very interesting, and taken in context of some of the other evidence it gives some food for thought about the mysterious things that were happening in the Dulce area during the 70s, 80s and 90s.

As if my local library would buy some book on Dulce.

OK, what branch of military? Unit designation? Who was the commander?

Regarding the property, what name was at the recorders office? You really can't tell if glass is bullet proof by looking, so I assume the building inspector let Greg examine the plans for the building. Thus what brand of glass was installed?

These are very basic questions that any researcher would investigate. Geez, even Glenn Campbell would look up real estate records.

a reply to: gariac

I get the feeling your mind is made up. That's totally fine but your glib responses are making you less than pleasant to have a discussion with. I doubt you care, but FYI. Onward...

As I said, they did check the property records, and found that for a number of years the property changed hands between fictitious companies. The people who discovered the ranch were state trooper Gabe Valdez (Greg's dad) and the Gomez family, whose own ranch was the victim of numerous animal mutilations. At the time they found the ranch it had been abandoned so they were able to investigate the towers up close. I don't have any information about the brand of glass used on the towers, but they noted its extreme thickness. Since these were mere 'hunting stands' I have to wonder what animals have a tendency to fire back.

You can nitpick my retelling of the evidence all you want but in my opinion these towers alone are pretty strange and out of place.

After they inquired about the property records, ownership was almost immediately changed back to the Redding family and remained until the time of W.A. Redding's death in (I think) 1996.

Nobody should go toi the ranch now. It is owned by the Southern Utes and you'd be a fool to go trespassing on their land without permission. Besides, any reported military activity in the area has long since ceased.

What branch of military? Unit designation? That information is not usually disclosed for black projects. I'm not sure why you'd even ask.

One last thing, gariac. You'll notice I never mentioned the "A" word. It is not relevant here. This story is about UFOs - which, as I'm sure you'd agree, tends to indicate classified aircraft - and biological testing on animals. Those are both interesting subjects and worth looking into. There is strong evidence for both occurring around Dulce during those years. Well, the mutilations are fact. It is also a fact that UFOs were a near daily sighting for residents during that time but due to the nature of a UFO - unidentified - one can't extrapolate too much other than to say somethingwas going on.

Greg was there accompanying his dad throughout the whole thing, and has access to all of his late father's files. It's a fascinating subject and there is no better source of information.

Now you are free to resume your "nothing ever happened in Dulce, get over it" mantra but I'd argue you're missing out on a fascinating bit of history.

originally posted by: dogshark

This has been discussed before, but one bit of evidence that something fishy was going on at Mt Archuleta is the Redding Ranch, which essentially served as a checkpoint on the road leading south to the mountain. Multiple heavy gauge steel towers with thick, bulletproof glass on both sides of the road suggest something a little more serious than hunting was going on. During the 80s the ownership of this ranch changed hands frequently between fictitious companies. There was also a heavy gauge steel bunker built with hangar-style doors and adjacent runway. These towers and bunker are still there today although the ranch is now in the hands of the Southern Utes and reports of military presence have long ceased.

None of this proves anything but it is very interesting, and taken in context of some of the other evidence it gives some food for thought about the mysterious things that were happening in the Dulce area during the 70s, 80s and 90s.

A metal plaque prominently posted on a watch tower door identified the manufacturer as Houston Blow Pipe & Steel Plate Works (P.O. BOX 1692, Houston, TX 77251-1692, phone: 713-675-2273, FAX: 713-675-5038). Having seen the towers and being interested in their origin and purpose, a simple phone call was made to the phone number above. I

It was learned during the phone conversation that the President and CEO of the company is Mr. W. A. Redding. Contrary to the myths that have been perpetuated, a simple explanation was provided by Mr. Redding.

1) Mr. Redding stated that the watch towers are actually hunting stands with the brand name "The Ultimate Hunting Stand." The hunting stands on the ranch are weather proof-heavy gauge steel construction (5 feet diameter, 850 pounds est. total weight) equipped with 10 feet high steel angle frame supports, steel ladder or a steel walk-up type stairway with steel pipe hand railing, propane heater and tank, five large one way mirror-pane plate glass (hinged and latched) windows (hunters can see out, but game cannot see inside), swivel chair, and indoor-outdoor carpet on floor and side wall. Further, the stands are used for photographing game and birds, and hunting of game (deer, elk, javelina,moose, sheep and turkeys).

From Surprise! - NIDS investigates Redding Ranch

Google-Image the term "The Ultimate Hunting Stand" and you get many results for structures that look nefarious to some but useful to others (for selling books)

originally posted by: TXRabbitGoogle-Image the term "The Ultimate Hunting Stand" and you get many results for structures that look nefarious to some but useful to others (for selling books)

Yes, I in fact did just that. I see a number of things that look like, well, hunting stands. Like blinds. They're portable and lightweight, something you can tow behind a pickup. They seem to be a useful way to hide from wildlife in the woods. None of them look like heavy steel, permanent guard towers such as those on the Redding ranch. Curiously, the same google search turns up none of these "Ultimate Hunting Stands" allegedly sold by Houston Blow Pipe. I'd be curious to know if any exist anywhere else.

I am very aware of the NIDS explanation but I don't totally buy it. For instance, they completely missed the issue of the property records.

Thanks for posting.

can you link or post a picture of one of these guard-towers? The only results I see for this ranch are the entry-way arch

a reply to: TXRabbit

Did I miss the evidence on the bullet proof glass?

Did I miss the evidence that the military was actually there? Uniforms? Vehicle plates. If the project was black, you wouldn't even know the military was there. Since the ranch was used for hunting, the military dudes could be hunters.

So Mr. Redding, the guy that builds the towers, owned the ranch. I bet the president of Ford drives a Ford. OK, OK, maybe a Lincoln.

Guard towers are generally at the perimeter of a facility. It is best to stop an outsider at the fence rather than once they are on the facility. These towers are just sitting in the meadow, as if expecting wildlife to pass by.

When you can't convince NIDS there is something strange, you have problems.

Yep, nothing to see here. No need to buy the book.

a reply to: hiii_98

What hiii_98 says right there is the main consideration.

If you should find a ventilation shaft, or other such thing, what then? Do you go down it?
Unfortunately, I think it's a place one shouldn't go looking unless you are missing someone and think that's where they are. I say that because I think you should have a reason to take such a risk of not returning. A hidden place like Dulce carries with it such a risk, bc whomever made it,intended it to be hidden, obviously. So you're there, if you find it, without an invitation, so to speak. That doesn't usually go well.
tetra

a reply to: gariac

Send me your email address and I'll email you a PDF copy for free.

a reply to: tetra50

All those links to the photographic evidence (cough cough) don't work for me.

You wants shafts in the desert? There are thousands of abandoned mines, none of which were used for battles with space aliens.

If you are lucky, the shafts are fenced off.

a reply to: gariac

The Delta Force out of Fort Carson Colorado was the Military unit involved with the Redding Ranch. The Archuleta county Assesors office had several different shell companies listed as the owners. Edmund Gomez spent days conducting research at the assesses office as did my dad and myself.

a reply to: gariac
Military troops were routinely seen in the area by tribal members during the 1980's. There are no military bases near Dulce. Two chinook helicopters chased Paul Bennewitz out of the area when he took a CBS film crew up there in the 80's. The helicopters were prepositioned at the Redding ranch.

The book explains why NIDS ignored the ranch. It's easier if I send you a free copy so you can read it because most of the questions you are asking are addressed in the book.

originally posted by: GVALDEZ
a reply to: gariac

The Delta Force out of Fort Carson Colorado was the Military unit involved with the Redding Ranch. The Archuleta county Assesors office had several different shell companies listed as the owners. Edmund Gomez spent days conducting research at the assesses office as did my dad and myself.

1)Delta Force wasn't at Fort Carson until the mid 1990's.
2)What were the shells companies. Be specific.
3)The military routinely trains in the desert. How do you know exactly a black project was involved?

originally posted by: gariac

originally posted by: GVALDEZ
a reply to: gariac

The Delta Force out of Fort Carson Colorado was the Military unit involved with the Redding Ranch. The Archuleta county Assesors office had several different shell companies listed as the owners. Edmund Gomez spent days conducting research at the assesses office as did my dad and myself.

1)Delta Force wasn't at Fort Carson until the mid 1990's.
2)What were the shells companies. Be specific.
3)The military routinely trains in the desert. How do you know exactly a black project was involved?

1. In Greg Bishops book project beta Ricard Doty told him Delta force did training missions in the area with the Air Force, this story drags into the 90's. You can decide how much you want to believe in regards to Doty. The 1550th out of Kirtland was also active up there. They were also used for legitimate missions like search and rescue because their helicopters had the power to fly at high altitude.
2. Edmund Gomez has the list of the companies. I haven't seen if for a while so I can contact him to get the names.
3.photographs were taken of the black project aircraft which once again is explained in the book. The answers you are looking for can not be summed up in a short blog post, that's why I offered you a FREE book for you to read and get more information.

a reply to: GVALDEZ

Greg, thanks for coming in to respond. Really enjoyed your book. I'm still re-reading parts and going through the evidence. Interesting stuff.

I wouldn't worry too much about gariac, his mind is made up on the subject. I'd be really surprised if he took you up on the generous offer.

originally posted by: dogshark
a reply to: GVALDEZ

Greg, thanks for coming in to respond. Really enjoyed your book. I'm still re-reading parts and going through the evidence. Interesting stuff.

I wouldn't worry too much about gariac, his mind is made up on the subject. I'd be really surprised if he took you up on the generous offer.

gariac might be the only one asking pertinent questions, but he sure isn't the only one thinking them.
Like why isn't this thread in the "Aliens and UFOs" forum where it belongs?

a reply to: FosterVS

Because that's not what we're talking about?

Funny. I keep trying to keep this on topic but you two are the ones who keep playing the same tired Alien card.

a reply to: dogshark


The guard towers have been debunked. Delta Force activity has been debunked. Thus far I haven't been given any reason to spend my time reading this book, especially when I have half a dozen I haven't got around to reading yet that are on real topics, not Dulce.

If the military trained at Dulce, this does not prove the story of of the underground battle and the rest of the nonsense. The military trains in lots of places without fighting space aliens.