Bush invokes 9/11 to justify torture, domestic spying and war

Bush invokes 9/11 to justify torture, domestic spying and war

www.globalresearch.ca

In a speech Thursday, President Bush invoked the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 as an all-purpose justification for his prevailing on a series of issues now in dispute in Congress: the confirmation of Michael Mukasey as attorney general despite his refusal to disavow torture; the passage of legislation to give sweeping new domestic spying powers to the federal government; and the approval of yet another emergency spending bill providing nearly $200 billion for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Oh yeah, this is good! NOT! How is justifying torture going to help our country fight terrorists? We kill them on the battlefield more that capture them and if we do come close to capture, don't they just plug themselves? And there's the extra $200 BILLION for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Yeah, I feel I'm totally getting my tax money's worth, don't you?

Sheesh!
Cuhail

www.globalresearch.ca
(visit the link for the full news article)

Waterboarding is all the buzz on NPR of late. We are such a lovely nation to incorporate this type of torture on our enemies. I've got a few national leaders I'd like to jello board on my list. This thing we call a 'government' is totally out of control. My two cow cookies.

Right?!?

I wonder about the phrase "Ignorance is bliss". I'm 100% positive every country in the world has done torture techniques during interrogation, but, to pass a bill to authorize it? Our representatives, that are supposed to represent their constituents interests, that's OUR interests by the way, think the American people want to find terrorists SO bad, that they are willing to authorize the simulation of drowning on suspects.

I think I'll focus on the Irish when I tell people I'm Irish-American.


Yucky government sadists.
Cuhail

If we cannot abide by the tennants of our Constitution and our Bill of Rights, then we are no better than those we decry. Worse yet we have allowed the powers that be take those rights from us under the guise of "Security" :shk:

Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both. -Benjamin Franklin

Absolutely Ajax, and I love that quote.

It's sad to watch a fellow free nation spiral down this path. There's nothing we can do, the rhetoric in the US is far too common and the propaganda too well placed to convince Americans of the reality around them.

They seriously believe that these changes are being done for the peoples protection, as have so many other nations that have fallen into this trap.

I hate to pull the N card out, it usually sidetracks a thread, but the Bush administration is taking forceful control over it's people almost exactly the same way the Nazis did... if there was a book on this, the Bush administration is following it to the letter.

It will be a sad day when the rest of the world has to come to the US's doorstep to liberate a once free and prosperous nation.

Jello boarding. Me and Noah are going to make you choke on your golden spoons.

I've been doing some look-sees on the ole 'waterboarding" technique and I don't understand how it's NOT seen as torture.

This Is What Waterboarding Looks Like

Bottom line: Not only do waterboarding and the other types of torture currently being debated put us in company with the most vile regimes of the past half-century; they're also designed specifically to generate a (usually false) confession, not to obtain genuinely actionable intel. This isn't a matter of sacrificing moral values to keep us safe; it's sacrificing moral values for no purpose whatsoever.

This Is What Waterboarding Looks Like

Yeah, the Khymer Rouge, N.Vietnamese and the Soviets used these techniques. Oh, THAT makes it better, right?

Well, here's a bit of history to the CIA and a few more of their techniques.

The US has a History of Torture

I'll post some more in a bit. There are so many articles that deal with this subject.

Cuhail

Cuhail...it is NOT simulation. From my data gathered it is the real deal. Suffocation from water. Ah yes, we bring democracy to everyone.


[edit on 5-11-2007 by jpm1602]

jpm1602,
I agree. I wrote that as I was reading the first article I sourced. As I looked ito it more, I found my second link described it as essentially drowning the victim.
This one

Sick, it produces less accurate results. Why employ it? It doesn't work.

Cuhail

To all those who think that it should be allowed, please tell us how they're going to keep this from being used on anyone who is suspected of a crime.

Understand that this is only a stepping stone for future torture to be used on the masses, it will be used on you anytime you're arrested and questioned. Passing this bill would mean that it's legal, meaning that if a police officer did it to you, he would not be committing any crimes.

And to those who think it will only be used on terrorism suspects and stop when terrorism is over, tell us when terrorism will cease to exist in the world, please. This is going to be used forever, and nothing will stop it from seeping into our justice system.

Today, water boarding is ok, what's tomorrow? Chinese Water torture? Electrocutions? Exposure to extreme heat or cold? Induced insomnia? When will it end?

If our wonderful leaders think it's ok to extract information from people using these techniques, then the next time they themselves are taken to task about something we should be allowed to use those techniques to question them.

Torture is used to get the suspect to say what the torturer wants them to say and people will confess to anything just to get the pain to stop. Thus, information gained from torture is unreliable at best and a fabrication at worst.

He forgot to add the careless disregard for life which shows in the weapons used against the Iraqi people - ultimately this would point him out to be a hypocrite of course, that he isn't torturing people because he wants information but rather he's torturing them in order to spread fear.

If he was doing it for information i'd imagine we'd be that much closer to 'stopping the terrorists' by now - also the bombing of civilians has caused an uprising of affected families in those areas, thereby propogating the very reason why we supposedly went to Iraq in the first place.

And then i'll add that there is no evidence of Saddam Hussein working alongside Osama Bin laden on 9/11.

That is all.

America started down the road to fascism in the 2000 election when close allies of George W. Bush corrupted the vote.

It doesn't surprise me one bit to hear that he is now using 9/11 to justify torture. Even though no one in the administration has come out and said it, he is essentially using peoples' fear of terrorism to circumvent the constitution. And while a few Americans are waking up, most are too brainwashed by Faux News, and 24, and "Support the Troops!" bumper stickers, and faux patriot made-in-China flag waving to realize what is going on.

I am guessing some of the people in the military are refusing to do some of the bad things asked of them on the grounds it violates there oath, there conscience, and what it is to be part of the principles of the American society.

So he needs to give them cover to expand his programs. This may show another chink in the weapons of evil used against the values most Americans hold.

It still baffles me that some people believe Abu Grabi was a few bad apples. It was policy and I believe it was ordered from the top, and they should be held accountable for breaking American, international, and moral laws.

Just a thought: is the Pakistan power grab a "focus group" test to gauge public response? This is a serious issue.

Originally posted by Redge777
they should be held accountable for breaking American, international, and moral laws.

That's why the French were about to arrest Rumsfeld while traveling. I sure do hope that if we can't prosecute these bastards on home soil that someday I get to see bush and cheney in cuffs being brought to the Hague.

the idea that it isn't torture if it doesn't produce life threatening injury is insane...
it used to be back in the day...the good torturers managed to get them to talk while at the same time making danged sure they stayed alive!! Since well, the bad torturers would kill some of the victims and usually lost their heads because of it.
I think this small little fact flew over the heads of this administration....
torturers don't want to kill their victims!! dead people can't talk..takes all the fun out of the game.

Originally posted by flashback
That's why the French were about to arrest Rumsfeld while traveling. I sure do hope that if we can't prosecute these bastards on home soil that someday I get to see bush and cheney in cuffs being brought to the Hague.

Can you please source that. That is interesting.

reply to post by Redge777


I did a thread on it here.

Torture Complaint Filed Against Rumsfeld
www.abovetopsecret.com...