Zoroastrianism - Abrahamic faiths all flawed?

Okay...

So...I've been reading up on this religion, and from reading up on this, it seems to me that the Abrahamic religions are all...

...flawed at the source.

en.wikipedia.org...

Zoroastrianism is the religion and philosophy based on the teachings ascribed to the prophet Zoroaster (Zarathustra, Zartosht). Mazdaism is the religion that acknowledges the divine authority of Ahura Mazda, proclaimed by Zoroaster to be the one uncreated Creator of all (God).

As demonstrated by Zoroastrian creed and articles of faith, the two terms are effectively synonymous. In a declaration of the creed — the Fravarānē — the adherent states: "…I profess myself a devotee of Mazda, a follower of Zarathustra." (Yasna 12.2, 12.8)

While Zoroastrianism was once the dominant religion of much of Greater Iran, the number of adherents has dwindled to not more than 200,000 worldwide, with concentrations in India and Iran. For details, see adherents below.

www.zoroastrianism.com...

My ancestors, the Zoroastrians of Iran (pre-Islamic) were members of the Indo-European family known as the Aryans. They called themselves Zoroastrians because they believed in the teachings of the first Aryan prophet, Zarathushtra.

Zarathushtra was the first prophet to preach a monotheistic religion, and He was born in Iran about 8000 years BC. He revealed that there was only one God, Ahura Mazda and that life in the physical world was a battle between good and evil. As per man's actions, he would either cross the "Chinvato Peretu" or the sword bridge after death, and reach Heaven, or fall from it and go to the abode of the evil one. In the final days there would be a battle between good and evil, evil would be vanquished and the world would be purified by a bath of molten metal. Mazda would then judge the world, resurrecting the dead and His Kingdom would be established on earth.

Zarathushtra's songs are called the "Gathas" which linguistically may be older than the Indian Vedic scriptures. The Gathas are written in an ancient Avestan dialect. This is a sister language to Sanskrit of India, and Greek and Latin of the West. The reason is, the common ancestors (common to the ancient Iranians, Ancient Indians, Greeks, and Europeans) were one and the same - the Indo-European or Aryan peoples.

Surprisingly, many so-called Christian concepts actually were derived from Zoroastrian Aryan ideas which thrived in Iran for thousands of years until the Arab invasion of Iran around 1300 years ago. Concepts such as heaven and hell, God and the evil adversary ahriman, the coming of the Saviour or Saoshyant born of a virgin, the end-time purge of the world by Fire followed by the resurrection of the dead (Ristakhiz), the making fresh of the world (Frashogard) and the final battle between good and evil leading to the final defeat of evil. These beliefs filtered down to Judaism during the reign of King Khushru (Cyrus) of Iran.

Although proud to be Aryans, Zoroastrians also believe that all races in the world are created by God and are equal - a true sign of the real ancient Aryan's nobility and tolerance. Cyrus, King of Iran who was an Aryan rebuilt the temple of the Jews after freeing the Jews from Babylon - for this, he is still remembered by the Jews and called the "Anointed of the Lord" in the Bible. The Jews still celebrate that act of the true Aryans in a festival. Many Jews then stayed in Iran under Cyrus and his successors such as Darayus, as equal subjects under the King. Books of the Bible written after this stay have taken all these Zoroastrian concepts, from there they came to Christianity and other religions. There are scholars who consider Zoroastrianism as such to be the mother religion of the present day world's faiths.

In fact the edict of Cyrus proclaiming equality for all his subjects is enshrined in the United Nations today. The original Aryans were realy multicultural and tolerant of all races! So, it is probable that the Jews were influenced by the Zoroastrian faith of Iran in those days - and took on the concepts of heaven/hell, God's evil adversary, the resurrection and the final purification of the world - the virgin birth, the Saviour etc., all these concepts being Zoroastrian. There are other similarities too - certain purificatory observances such as the impurity of menstruation etc. are found in both faiths. Indeed, the very idea of the Messiah, and the very concept of Jesus could be Zoroastrian in origin.

Zarathushtra's religion was the prominent one in Iran until the conquest by the Arabs, around 1300 years ago, who converted Iran to Islam. To preserve the Zoroastrian faith, this most ancient of faiths, indeed the "mother" faith of all mankind, a band of the Zarathushtrians sailed by boat to India about 1300 years ago, and settled in India where they were called the Parsees (from "Pars" ie. Iran). I am a descendant of these migrants. Rare as diamonds are, we number 100,000 or so in the world today.

We keep the holy FIRE in our temple as the symbol of Ahura Mazda, and our priests feed the fire with sandalwood and cedar and intone the ancient sacred Mathras (verses of praise) in the ancient Aryan Avestan language. The Mathric incantations have incredible divine potent power, a power used to fight evil. We also revere the elements of God such as water, earth, wind, and the creations of God such as the Sun, moon and stars. We wear the sacred Aryan girdle or the "Aiwiyaonghanem" around our waists, a sign of our ancient Aryan lineage and religion, and the white "Sudreh" as a garment.

My real name is "Pourashpa", an Avestan Indo-European name meaning "Owner of Grey Horses", horses signifying spiritual wisdom. As per the ancient custom, it should be always mentioned with my father's name ie. Pourashpa Puthra (son of) Hormuzd (my father's name). The ancient Avestan Pourashpa does have a mystical meaning because we believe the entire language itself, and its pronunciation (our ancient prayers the Gathas are in Avestan, these are the songs of Zarathushtra) itself has a powerful mystical effect in the fight against evil.

www.zoroastrianism.cc...

Curiously enough, I find that I'm not losing an awful lot of sleep over this. "Faith" contains a logical flaw by definition. People believing in something that has no proof. I don't have to go dig into a lot of dusty old books to find that out that they don't add up somehow. They're old myths, written at a time when people were less interested in literal and factual accuracy than trying to tell a moral story.

What do you expect to happen? Will all the Jews, Christians, and Muslims suddenly give up their religion once you point out the inconsistencies? I'm sure that will happen.

Originally posted by Nohup
What do you expect to happen? Will all the Jews, Christians, and Muslims suddenly give up their religion once you point out the inconsistencies? I'm sure that will happen.

I just want to see what arguments they can give in defense against this blatantly obvious truth.

Jews I don't mind.

Christianity I despise.

Islam I despise even more.

The two latter I would not mind collapsing, although invariably if this were to work it'd collapse all three.

Zoroastrianism is where the concept of duality emerged. It was the first religion to actually propose good and evil as polar opposites. Are there some correlations between it and Christianity? From what I can gather, most likely.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Zoroastrianism is where the concept of duality emerged. It was the first religion to actually propose good and evil as polar opposites. Are there some correlations between it and Christianity? From what I can gather, most likely.

Indeed.

Fact of the matter is, it seems that Judaism developed as a splinter group from this, and heck, just info here shows that Jews were even pagans before they believed in one god.

You discredit Judaism, you collapse all Abrahamic faiths at the base.

Well, even the OT mentions that paganism was prevalent in ancient times. I am sure that you have heard the story of the Golden Calf, Kacen..

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Well, even the OT mentions that paganism was prevalent in ancient times. I am sure that you have heard the story of the Golden Calf, Kacen..

Yes, I have.

Doesn't make any difference.

It just seems to me at this point that if anything within these IS real, it is Zoroastrianism. In all honesty, it makes so much more sense than these other religions.

I'm not quite sure how this proves that all Abrahamic religions are flawed. So Zoroastrianism was originally a purely monotheistic religion. I knew this long ago. How does this affect the Abrahamic religions? Obviously, God was not going to just give the Message to one small group of people in one small part of the world. Even Ancient Egypt had its short stint with monotheism. Nobody denies this.

I'm not all that knowledgeable about the intricacies of Judaism or Christianity, but Islam contends that "every people were sent a messenger", even if they were not mentioned in the Quran. So many muslims believe that Buddha's teachings were originally the message of God, that the Vedas were originally the message of God, that the Avesta were originally the message of God.

Originally posted by babloyi
So many muslims believe that Buddha's teachings were originally the message of God, that the Vedas were originally the message of God, that the Avesta were originally the message of God.

Are you sure about that?

Because a lot of those messages contradict each other. I think you are thinking of Baha'i faith.

The worst Abrahamic religion is Islam,I will NEVER support a religion that says women need to mask their divine beauty from the world because apparently men cannot control their sexual urges.

reply to post by Kacen


Nope, was not talking about the Baha'i faith. It is all in the Quran:

Verse 10:47

To every people (was sent) a messenger: when their messenger comes (before them), the matter will be judged between them with justice, and they will not be wronged.

Verse 21:92-94

Verily, this brotherhood of yours is a single brotherhood, and I am your Lord and Cherisher: therefore serve Me (and no other). But (later generations) cut off their affair (of unity), one from another: (yet) will they all return to Us. Whoever works any act of righteousness and has faith,- His endeavour will not be rejected: We shall record it in his favour.

Verse 2:147-148

The Truth is from thy Lord; so be not at all in doubt. To each is a goal to which Allah turns him; then strive together (as in a race) Towards all that is good. Wheresoever ye are, Allah will bring you Together. For Allah Hath power over all things.

Heheh...About masking divine beauty, the Quran says that men and women both should be modest, and refrain from being overtly sexual in their clothing. I think the only specific "restriction" I can find is that women should cover their 'bosoms' from strangers, and that they should wear an 'outer garment'/tighten their 'cloak'/or be under a 'covering' when travelling, for privacy, and that they may be recognised.
In fact, I know quite a few muslim women who are very proud to wear the hijab when going about in public, even to the extent that they may be going against the wishes of their parents (who think that wearing it will lessen the chances of them getting married ), as they feel it gives them a sense of being on equal terms with men, as opposed to being viewed as some sort of lusty sex commodities.

Great post. I have been researching for some time to try and find an original doctrine and/or religion. I noticed that most of the latter faiths have been reiterations of previous civilizations and their beliefs.

Does anyone else have more information or historical relevance. How do we know that this was an 8000 year old religion, when we have barely discovered the existence of civilizations 7000 years ago? I am generalizing, but you get the idea.

Sumerians influenced the Egyptians, who influenced many other religious groups after. Pagans are deeply involved in all of them as far as the additions to Christianity and the like early on in their development.

Let's see if we can get some information here to back this up. Maybe even show the similarities of what could have been borrowed by latter peoples and their religious leaders.

Also, is there any connection to physical movements in the solar system? It seems a lot of historic-religious documents contain allegory to the stars, etc.

Great topic, drop the judgmental bull shtuff and let's further detail this "mystery".

I have good news, and bad news.

The good news.

The topic starter is correct.

The bad news.

All religions are flawed.

I posted this in another thread but I think it will have value here too.



Religion, hmmmmmmm one who subscribes to a belief, more likely one who subscribes to the belief of someone they see as a better person, a higher being, someone who you think is just, someone who you think can lead you to the promise land, wherever that may be, and so you join that religion.

To give yourself a reason to be, to give yourself a reason to believe there is a afterlife/heaven for you to ascend to, to give yourself a reason to fight for a just cause (because your religion says so), regardless of the enemy and their own religion and beliefs.

For me I do not need a man made building to go and pray, I do not need a book to tell me all about all these great preachers, whether it be Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed etc.

I believe in the one and only tribe and that is humankind.

So you can shove your religion and to boot politics where the sun don't shine, both liars, warmongers and money grabbers.


Wolfie


The original thread can be found here: www.belowtopsecret.com...

I will say that all religion is flawed purely by the people who believe and the way the story of each religion has been passed down through the ages, whoever tells the story next will always put there slant on it and furthermore dilute the original story.


[edit on 18/10/07 by Wolfie_UK]

Originally posted by 1337cshacker
I have good news, and bad news.

The good news.

The topic starter is correct.

The bad news.

All religions are flawed.

I was there, once.

I found a primal, beautiful belief system with equality, purity, warmth, and sexual freedom - it is invigorating and comforting.

If I can discredit the religions I see as harmful to society (namely Islam), I feel I am doing us a favor.

If I recall correctly (it's late and possible that I don't!), Zarathustra was a pagan. He was crossing a stream when he suddenly had a revelation that Ahura Mazda was the one true god and the three other gods they worshipped were daevas (demons) in disguise.

Originally posted by C.C.Benjamin
If I recall correctly (it's late and possible that I don't!), Zarathustra was a pagan. He was crossing a stream when he suddenly had a revelation that Ahura Mazda was the one true god and the three other gods they worshipped were daevas (demons) in disguise.

Yes that is true.

Regardless, I like Zoroastrianism better than the Abrahamic religions.

I may be a proud pagan, but still, I find it more evolved and ironically much older than them...

I wish the Zoroastrians could revive the faith in all of Iran, and expel the Islamic cancer.

Originally posted by C.C.Benjamin
If I recall correctly (it's late and possible that I don't!), Zarathustra was a pagan. He was crossing a stream when he suddenly had a revelation that Ahura Mazda was the one true god and the three other gods they worshipped were daevas (demons) in disguise.

He probably picked up a mushroom and ate it, and then had a hallucination about some omnipotent fairy. It's not like it's the only time that happened.

I wish the Zoroastrians could revive the faith in all of Iran, and expel the Islamic cancer.

That would be replacing one evil by another.

[edit on 18-10-2007 by DarkSide]

Originally posted by Kacen
If I can discredit the religions I see as harmful to society (namely Islam), I feel I am doing us a favor.

Somehow I doubt that you will be able to accomplish more than centuries of Crusades did. You apparently have some kind of personal score to settle with Islam, but I'm reasonably sure that all of your efforts to harm it in some way will amount to nothing. It's far beyond anything that any individual can do.

That being the case, I suggest it might be better for you to transcend your feelings of animosity and focus your energies on something more positive and productive. Nothing can be gained by this kind of one-sided confrontation.

Relax. Refocus. Let it go.

Originally posted by DarkSide
That would be replacing one evil by another.

I don't see what is so evil about Zoroastrianism.

It teaches sexual equality and fighting for good things.

Islam's teachings are so skewed and easy to misinterpret...

Unless you see simply any religious belief as evil simply because you are an atheist.

Originally posted by Nohup
Somehow I doubt that you will be able to accomplish more than centuries of Crusades did. You apparently have some kind of personal score to settle with Islam, but I'm reasonably sure that all of your efforts to harm it in some way will amount to nothing. It's far beyond anything that any individual can do.

That being the case, I suggest it might be better for you to transcend your feelings of animosity and focus your energies on something more positive and productive. Nothing can be gained by this kind of one-sided confrontation.

Relax. Refocus. Let it go.

Sometimes I think about that, then other times all the horrors in the world in Islam, the sexism, etc are channeled towards me. I've not known this to happen to anyone else in such a way. It makes my soul ache. Not just Islam, by the way, other things in the world.

I think what I want to do is positive.

[edit on 10/18/2007 by Kacen]

Originally posted by Kacen
I don't see what is so evil about Zoroastrianism.

It teaches sexual equality and fighting for good things.

Islam's teachings are so skewed and easy to misinterpret...

Unless you see simply any religious belief as evil simply because you are an atheist.

It's another monotheistic religion. Show me why this Mazda guy is more likely to exist than Allah?