Right to bear arms...Are you for or aginst it?

I wanted to post this to get into depate with the libs.I support the right to bear arms, I own firearms and I wouldnt live without them.I wanted to open a debate to try and understand the more Liberal point of view when it comes to guns in America. Especially those of you who would like to see all firearms taken away from registered owners in this country.

For a time I kind of bought into the argument that firearm controls would reduce homicides. I still think there ought to be laws against letting felons and the insane get guns, but I now think that perhaps better drug laws would prevent a lot of these homicides. Other than the restrictions I previously mentioned, I think everyone should own a concealed handgun.

Oh, and I consider myself a liberal on most issues.

Look at the British. They cant have guns. So next they need to outlaw knives, have you seen their knife related crime stats? Then after that thell have to outlaw bats, and so on so fourth

reply to post by tac109


Ok well if you are using fire arms for a good theres nothing wrong with that.
But when teenagers, start to kill other teens, and things like... killing animals ( which I'm against) then it just goes way beyond " I'm registered to own a gun"
guns just shouldnt be trusted in our society today... becouse of all the high-school shootings and the college shootings, gangs, guns are just a scary thought today..some people who have and own guns feel they have power over people...and they use that power against innocent people.

The point is that. Giving a gun to just anyone, with out probable cause, is just wrong. Plain and simple. If you collect antique guns, i understand.. A person buying a new, 2007 gun with a bunch of special stuff on it..what is that? is that person in the FBI? CIA? Police officer? it's just nonsence..and a risky situation.
Maybe there should be laws against who can buy them and who can't, for example like you can't buy a gun until your a certain age or you cant buy one unless your are working for the gov, or unless you are being abused.

[edit on 11-10-2007 by 1111111111111]

[edit on 12-10-2007 by 1111111111111]

reply to post by tac109


Yes, I think we can all agree that it's a pretty ridiculous policy. The laws we have in America are good now, let's enforce those and get the guns out of the hands of criminals. Do this, and I predict the homicide rate will plummet.

reply to post by 1111111111111


I think a large part of the reason I support gun ownership is the long tradition of hunting in my family. I do totally understand, however, your position against a person having ridiculous assault weapons. A good double-barreled shotgun and a revolver ought to be good enough for anyone.

Originally posted by tac109
Look at the British. They cant have guns. So next they need to outlaw knives, have you seen their knife related crime stats? Then after that thell have to outlaw bats, and so on so fourth

agreed.

it sound cliche but guns really don't kill people...irresponsible people in possession of firearms do.

getting rid of guns wont make violence stop.



edit to add also in the case of assault weapons i own one...without going into detail.but the point is i was involved in gangs,drugs,and criminal behavior in my youth....and I'm not out killen folk.ive grown up and i own my assault weapon in the event things get crazy here and they really do start hauling people off to re-education camps...or if war broke out and we actually were invaded...which as unlikely as it seems could happen.

[edit on 12-10-2007 by future flow]

I'm against a right to bear arms, but for a privelage to bear arms. I believe it should be earned. I have always been for passing a firearms test to buy a gun just as we are required to pass a drivers test to drive a car. I see no difference. And I'm a gun owner and hunter.

reply to post by tac109


Just curious....

I wonder what kills more children each year... cars or guns?

Or how about drunk drivers or guns?

Or how about insane parents or guns?

Bee stings or guns?

Dog bites or guns?

What is the hang up with guns? Could there be a bigger conspiracy from the left, which is to discredit and marginalize the Constitution by making the 2nd Amendment seem out of date and just plain wrong?

I understand that all the school shootings are horrible. Firearms are often used by bad people to do bad things, But since the begining on man people have always killed people, they always will and peope will use whatever they have to do it. If sombody wants to kill his neighbor and dosnt have a gun then hell use somthing else, he wont forget about it because he has no gun

those who obey the law would give up there firearms if they were outlawed those who dont obey the law would get more guns on the black market then those who obey the law wouldnt be able to defend themselves. outlawing firearms is like prohibition it sounds good on paper to some but it would never actually work.

I support the rights of private citizens to own firearms.

I support the need for extensive background checks for those making purchases of said arms.

I would have no problem if gun purchase required a madatory class that lasted multiple days that included gun safety, shooting skills etc.

When it comes to automatic rifles etc then my pro gun stance gets a bit blurry.

reply to post by Operation AJAX


Automatic weapons=hell no. I agree with you that there should be a background check but I think a multi-day class is overkill. A written exam and an accuracy test ought to be good enough.

reply to post by uberarcanist


I don't know. I own guns myself and I learend safety and skills both from my Grandfather (WWII sniper) and scouts.

But the reality is many have never had any real formal instruction and the written test like those at the DMV can easily be cheated on etc. I go top the range and see stuff that would make a goat gag

At the very least a 1 day class on home and range saftey with an optional shooting class would make me happy. If they improved the background check and added the classes, they could reduce the wait time to less tha a week. The class could be a one time thing.

[edit on 12/10/07 by Operation AJAX]

The reason we have the right to bear arms is to fight the government if we had to, Im afraid of a government that wants my guns, Look at what hitler did..He took all the guns away from the Jews so they would have less of a fighting chance

reply to post by Operation AJAX


I don't know what state you're from, but AFAIK, in Alabama you can legally get a gun in a few hours, perhaps less. I think gun ownership should be encouraged, and not discouraged by very long waits. A one day course is not excessive, however.

I would consider myself a moderate when it comes to gun control. I think it is too simplistic to say "less guns equals less crime" as many factors determine crime rates and other *some* circumstances "more guns equals less crime." I think society should focus on the other factors that create crime like poverty, deterioration of the family, and deterioration of morals before it tackles guns.

On the other hand, I can sympathise with the liberals. The right to own guns, like the right to free speech is not an absolute right. Freedom of speech does not give one the right to incite riots, make child pornography, or commit slander. Similarly, the right to own guns should not allow someone to endanger other's safety and well being. How exactly a law abiding citizen owning guns should be balanced with others rights to safety is up for debate. It seems reasonable though to put measures in like background checks, waiting periods, etc. as these measures could possibly save several lives while only causing minor inconveniences with gun owners.

Originally posted by tac109
The reason we have the right to bear arms is to fight the government if we had to, Im afraid of a government that wants my guns, Look at what hitler did..He took all the guns away from the Jews so they would have less of a fighting chance

my point exactly. that's what its for and taking that rite away is undeniably the worst idea one could think...more regulations...maybe a one day class makes sense but taking that rite away....ludicrous

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
source

Copy and paste... cut and dry. Until this is repealed... there's not much debate.

I'm a proud gun owner, by the way.

[edit].. to complete thought... There's more to the 2nd Amendment than simply stating "we can have em cause the Constitution says so." You've got to "understand" the 2nd Amendment and why it's there. [/edit]

[edit on 10/12/2007 by Infoholic]

i'm for letting people have their guns... just with proper background checks and regular psychological examinations of those with guns.

and no guns for felons
...and the age should be universal across all states at something like 18