14 yr old hate crime victim wants parents punished!

I didn't see anything yet about this here, but all day yesterday, there was a young black boy that had his head put in a noose by a white boy as a bet.

He wrote an open letter to the president, and is trying to push legislation that will make the parents, and even friends of the perpetrator of hate crimes responsible....arguing that they "shaped the criminal's views"...

The odd thing is...this was treated as a "good idea" in the press!!! Now, I feel for the kid, but this would set a VERY dangerous witchhunt scenario in place...

Especially since the criminal is 19 years old (i.e. an adult), responsible for his own behavior no matter how you slice it. Thing about it too, is that regardless of whether someone is guilty of hate...that, in itself, is not a crime... At the point when it crosses the line, it is THEN upon the individual that committed the crime..imho...

Anyways, here's a link to a story about it...as it was on local news here....

www.baynews9.com...

It's strange.

When the so-called agressors are whites and the victims aren't white, it's a hate crime. OTH, when the victims are whites and the agressors aren't whites, we don't hear talking about hates crimes.

The black kid put his head in that noose of his own free will.

*sigh*

I must agree with u_p for once and say that the spectrum of hate crime news is a little... warped

I am really mixed about this. People learn by example. Dark skin people were brought to this country by means of hate. Hate for the unknown. The only thing that is not the same between me and my black brothers, is the color. Period, i can be as brutle, or as nice. I do think that "blacks" comite crimes out of hate, some do, all rules are broken. There are people that still burn crosses.That blows me away I guess i convenced myself, most "blacks" dont comite crimes out of hate.

I grew up a white kid in a predominately black Community in the middle of Alabama. Trust me I know all about reverse discrimination. Most did not hate me or at least they did not show it but some did. I cannot count how many times I was called a honky, cracker, white trash or some other name for no other reason than the color of my skin not to mention the number of times I was beat up because of it. To think that hatred only exsists on one side of the equation is blind.

The fact of the matter is simple, there are some people in this world (both black and white) that view the other race as the reason for all their unhappiness. These people have the mentality that the other race needs to be neutered in some way because they are the ones that hate and they never look at themselves first and realize "Hey maybe we both can change".

I don't know anything about this kid or if in fact it was racism but I do know that if it was it was the actions of one man not the actions of everyone who has influenced his life.

The hate laws are for the most part bullchit anyway.
They serve only "certian" people and apply to only certian people.
If this dik put a nuse around the kids neck then he should be charged with assult. Hate is a view not a crime. Plenty people hate. Should it be wrong to hate the President? Is he any less human than any other person? Is it wrong to hate a whole country of people? How about a religion? But the double standard applies when the subject is not of color.
Why is it ok to burn a flag, but not a cross?
Is it that much different? Both represent Protest/hate/disaproval/dislike do they not? Personally I don't agree either practice and both bother me.
A double standard bothers me more tho...

I am really mixed about this. People learn by example. Dark skin people were brought to this country by means of hate. Hate for the unknown. The only thing that is not the same between me and my black brothers, is the color. Period, i can be as brutle, or as nice. I do think that "blacks" comite crimes out of hate, some do, all rules are broken. There are people that still burn crosses.That blows me away I guess i convenced myself, most "blacks" dont comite crimes out of hate.

I'd have to disagree with this reasoning though... Blacks were brought to America for economic reasons (i.e. cheap labor) not hate. Likewise, there are just as many blacks that commit crimes from hate, as whites, hispanics, etc....perhaps even more, if prison statistics are taken into consideration....

I can see the reasoning for defining certain cases as "hate" crimes. As a society, we need to treat crimes committed from this motivation, more seriously, in order to reinforce that it will not be tolerated.

Gazrok, its ok for you to disagree, im not trying to push my feelings on anyone, just sharing my thoughts.

So you are telling me that there are just as many blacks locked up for hate crimes. Just dont know if thats true. I bet its more whites , whites hates gays, and they hate gays more than black. To be honest, most of the hate crimes i can think of are on gays. Most "blacks are locked up for, dealing, stealing,fleeing

I agree that hate crimes need to be treated more seriously.

And they were cheap labor... I think i was try to point the way the whites are savages, and turned "blacks" to savages. Maybe i need to put more thought sometimes, somethings just get me going and i ramble. so sorry bout that.

First of all, "hate crime" is a stupid phrase.

You want ethnic equality, then get rid of "hate crime" all together.

Crime is crime, period.

Crime should be dealt with on it's merit as a crime, and not for the reason of race.

Does it really matter that a white man hated blacks as a reason to kill him (just an example).

No, he killed him.

Someone engages is criminal activities, punish him/her.

Originally posted by SpittinCobra
Gazrok, its ok for you to disagree, im not trying to push my feelings on anyone, just sharing my thoughts.

So you are telling me that there are just as many blacks locked up for hate crimes. Just dont know if thats true. I bet its more whites , whites hates gays, and they hate gays more than black. To be honest, most of the hate crimes i can think of are on gays. Most "blacks are locked up for, dealing, stealing,fleeing

I agree that hate crimes need to be treated more seriously.

And they were cheap labor... I think i was try to point the way the whites are savages, and turned "blacks" to savages. Maybe i need to put more thought sometimes, somethings just get me going and i ramble.

so sorry bout that.

whites hates gays, and they hate gays more than black. To be honest, most of the hate crimes i can think of are on gays. Most "blacks are locked up for, dealing, stealing,fleeing

Where do you get this crap from?
You will learn when you get out 4th grade that there are white gays too! Probably more than any other if not just as many.
Before you go spewing out complete crap, get the facts. They are not hard to find....oh hot damn....found one

Table 2. - Number of Incidents, Offenses, Victims, and Offenders by Bias Motivation, 1995 Bias Motivation Incidents Offenses Victims Known Offenders
Race 4,831 6,170 6,438 5,751
Anti-White 1,226 1,511 1,554 2,032
Anti-Black 2,988 3,805 3,945 3,099
Anti-American Indian/Alaskan Native 41 59 59 38
Anti-Asian/Pacific Islander 355 484 496 380
Anti-Multi-Racial Group 221 311 384 202
Ethnicity/National Origin 814 1,022 1,044 958
Anti-Hispanic 516 680 698 685
Anti-Other Ethnicity/ National Origin 298 342 346 273
Religion 1,277 1,414 1,617 437
Anti-Jewish 1,058 1,145 1,236 350
Anti-Catholic 31 35 53 8
Anti-Protestant 36 47 65 12
Anti-Islamic 29 39 41 26
Anti-Other Religious Group 102 122 196 36
Anti-Multi-Religious Group 20 25 25 4
Anti-Atheism/Agnosticism/etc. 1 1 1 1
Sexual Orientation 1,019 1,266 1,347 1,273
Anti-Male Homosexual 735 915 937 1,031
Anti-Female Homosexual 146 189 191 131
Anti-Homosexual 103 125 182 80
Anti-Heterosexual 17 19 19 13
Anti-Bisexual 18 18 18 18
Multiple Bias 6 23 23 14
Total 7,947 9,895 10,469 8,433

www.fbi.gov...

Law enforcement agencies reported the number of known offenders for 62 percent of hate crimes coming to their attention in 1995. Among the 8,433 known offenders reported to be associated with hate crime incidents, 59 percent were white, and 27 percent were black. The remaining offenders were of other or multi-racial groups.

Now let's take in to consideration the ratios here cause it's not fair to say that it's mostly whites if they are a larger group. Thats just your generalization.
If you go to Africa or the Middle East the majority of folks there are not white. If you take their hate crimes and add them up and see that in Africa that the crimes will mostly be commited by Blacks. Why? Because blacks make up most the population there. Simple math.

Example:
in 2000 in the USA the population was 281,421,906
acording to us census.
Out of these 281,421,906 people, 211,460,626 were white. Thats a MAJORITY of 75.1% of the population.
That leaves less than 25% being the rest of the population.
Blacks count for 36,419,434 people that is 12.9%
factfinder.census.gov...< br />
Since there are more whites that means that the chances of a white comitting a crime are greater than any other because there are more, not because they are white.

Prision statistics show in 1995
White inmates = 3,220,900
Black inmates = 2,024,000
Statsically? Im not gonna go there....
Thats another thread....

The only thing in this thread you have gotten correct is:

Most "blacks are locked up for, dealing, stealing,fleeing

But the same applies to white people. Want statistics?
www.fbi.gov...

Originally posted by Gazrok

I am really mixed about this. People learn by example. Dark skin people were brought to this country by means of hate. Hate for the unknown. The only thing that is not the same between me and my black brothers, is the color. Period, i can be as brutle, or as nice. I do think that "blacks" comite crimes out of hate, some do, all rules are broken. There are people that still burn crosses.That blows me away I guess i convenced myself, most "blacks" dont comite crimes out of hate.

I'd have to disagree with this reasoning though... Blacks were brought to America for economic reasons (i.e. cheap labor) not hate. Likewise, there are just as many blacks that commit crimes from hate, as whites, hispanics, etc....perhaps even more, if prison statistics are taken into consideration....

I can see the reasoning for defining certain cases as "hate" crimes. As a society, we need to treat crimes committed from this motivation, more seriously, in order to reinforce that it will not be tolerated.

tolerated less compared to what? murder for 50 bucks in a cash register in a liqour store? how about rape? is rape more tolerable to you than someone assaulting someone else because they dont like the color of their skin?

how is one crime somehow more heinous than another? because of the perpetrators rationale behind it? crime in any form is unacceptable to me period, one is not less or more tolerable than another because of hatred of color.

you cant and shouldnt try to get rid of hate by creating laws that punish you for your thoughts. you cant legislate hatred away. you cant ban it or outlaw it. if anything it reenforces their beliefs, it makes them more rooted in their ignorance. we already have laws against assault, enforce them or make the punishments harsher if you want. we have laws against harassment, vandalizism, etc. we dont need more laws to "protect" a small group of people, we simply need to enforce the laws we already have/make the punishments more harsh.

amazing, "we're all equal but i want special laws protecting me". i just dont get it. not only do certain people have all laws that protect them they now have their own laws? whats next? each "minority" gets their own police force? black cops for black crimes, white cops for white crimes. what about white collar crimes? oh wait, CEO's and execs already make the rules they're suppose to abide by, my mistake. how about blue collar crime? do we get steel workers to enforce those laws? are we going to have a gay police force for gays only and if you need help they cant help you because you're not gay?


WTF is wrong with this country? everyone keeps saying "we need to come together" but all i see are people pushing away from the whole as if to say" i'm special, i should be put on a pedestal" while at the same time trying to tell us how they're just like me and you.

hell if we're going to try and get rid of discrimination via the law book then lets outlaw discrimination in all its forms. those appartments that wont let you rent because you own a cat? lock the owner up, their trampling your rights as a cat owner, you need laws protecting you and your cats from these hateful people!

handicap parking spaces! noone else BUT handicap people can park there! thats not right, that excludes the majority of us who are faster and in and out of the store faster than they are, we should get rid of these handicap only spaces and make it equal! first come first serve! THATS how you make things equal, treat everyone the same, especially since "handicap" people dont want special treatment and those spaces is technically special treatment.


oh wait i sound rediculous dont i? now you know how stupid these existing "hate crime" laws are. if it doesnt protect everyone equally then its discrimitory PERIOD, you cant say one way is ok and the other is not, thats bias and justice is blind, remember?

[Edited on 23-1-2004 by ThePrankMonkey]

I would like to see a more set standard with how crimes, hate, etc. are treated...if a white kid beats up a black kid he is "racist" and if a black kid beats up a white kid he is just "misunderstood"...and yes, I know this isnt the norm in lots of places, but from what I have seen it seems to be true...I dont care what race someone is one way or another, if they do something bad they should have equal treatment and punishment.

Originally posted by Gazrok
I didn't see anything yet about this here, but all day yesterday, there was a young black boy that had his head put in a noose by a white boy as a bet.

He wrote an open letter to the president, and is trying to push legislation that will make the parents, and even friends of the perpetrator of hate crimes responsible....arguing that they "shaped the criminal's views"...

The odd thing is...this was treated as a "good idea" in the press!!! Now, I feel for the kid, but this would set a VERY dangerous witchhunt scenario in place...

Especially since the criminal is 19 years old (i.e. an adult), responsible for his own behavior no matter how you slice it. Thing about it too, is that regardless of whether someone is guilty of hate...that, in itself, is not a crime... At the point when it crosses the line, it is THEN upon the individual that committed the crime..imho...

Anyways, here's a link to a story about it...as it was on local news here....

www.baynews9.com...

Yeah, a 19-year old is an adult and is responsible for their own actions. There probably isn't a leg to stand on legally regarding the parents role. However, if the parents are hate-mongers that taught the 19-year old, a bullet might make sense.

Would it be better if someone liked the person he beat, raped, killed and chopped up with an axe?

Does that make the crime less hateful?

Give me a freaking break

Whites peoples have allways wrong, non-whites have allways right. Don't believe me ? Ask to your local leftist.