Ahmadinejad a CIA agent?

Following a hunch, I did a little searching on the subject.
What I found was interesting.

Keep in mind our governments ability to bend the law by instilling False Flag ops around the world, such as the Gulf Of Tonkin, in order to escalate the Viet Nam war.

One of these false flag ops, called TP-AJAX, or "Operation Ajax", funded a coup for the takeover of the Government of Iran!
Source

English Banks were angry, because the current gov. wanted control of the oil, within Iran. They were trying to take control away from the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company (later Brittish Petroleum "BP").

So, the English Banks, (AKA, the Queen) sent in funds through the well connected CIA.

The result was a successful coup, instilling a pro Western government.

Let's keep also in mind, Ahmadinehad is wildy unpopular in Iran.
Source

This time however, the government needs a reason to invade Iran. To take control of oil once and for all, and set up strategic bases. And don't forget, huge profits in infrastructure rebuilding and humanitarian aid and defense industry profits.

The Bush admin. wants to take out the Guard, instead of nuclear stations. This has brought questions from Israel. Maybe it will be a joint effort.

Since I believe Israel and the US are in large part, controlled by the banks of England, (the 10 richest acres on the planet), which is controlled by the Queen of England.

Ahmadinejad just replace the oil minister.

TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad replaced his oil minister, Kazem Vaziri-Hamaneh, on Sunday, a move some analysts saw as a bid to stamp his control on an industry that is the source for most of Iran's revenues
Source

So, keep in mind, Iran is OPEC's #2 oil producer.

Iran also has pipelines to Pakistan and India.

Then there is the 1979 US Embassy Hostage situation, in which Ahmadinejad was pictured.

Nice of him to pose, isn't it.

Sixty-six men and women, members of the U.S. Diplomatic Corps and civilian employees, were doing their jobs at the U.S. embassy when a group of students cut through the locks on the embassy gate and took them hostage. The students were angry because the now-deposed Shah of Iran traveled to the U.S. for medical treatment, and they wanted him put on trial in his own country for crimes against the Iranian people.
Source

Hmm, cut the locks, and walked unnopposed into the embassy. Where were the everpresent Marine guards??

And these people were against the Shah, who has just been ousted by the CIA, so they take over an embassy?? Keep in mind, not a shot was fired during this whole thing. There were US military killed when their helicopters crashes trying to go to the scene.

All people who attempted to rescue hostages, where killed on the way to the rescue.

What was George Bush senior doing at this time?

But in the midst of Bush's summer, 1979 preparations for his presidential bid, there was one very serious moment of preparation that addressed the some real issues, albeit in a way virtually invisible from the campaign trail. This was a conference Bush attended at the Jonathan Institute in Jerusalem on July 2-5. Instead of mugging for the television cameras while eating hotdogs on the Fourth of July at a picnic in Iowa or New Hampshire, Bush journeyed to Israel for what was billed as the Jerusalem Conference on International Terrorism.
Source

Could this be the time the plan was implemented?

[edit on 1-10-2007 by stompk]

This is from my own research on Iran, regrettably mostly from Wikipedia.

1906: Protests led to revolution and Iran's first parliament was established with a constitutional monarchy.(1) The Constitution became law and had extreme promise in modernizing and centralizing Iran, but was seldom followed.(1)

1921: A Cossack army officer named Reza Khan defeated the Qajar Dynasty in a coup d'etat.(1) Reza was a supporter of modernization and brought industry, railroads, and a national education system to the people of Iran.(1) To aid in these advancements, Reza sought assistance from European countries, including Germany.(1)

1937-1939: WWII broke out, the world quickly deviding into two fronts, the Axis and the Allied.(13)
The Allied Powers included, among others, China, France, the USSR, the UK, and the US.(13) The Axis Powers included, among others, Germany, Italy, and Japan.(13)

1941: Both Britain and the Societ Union indvaded Iran to prevent their allying with Axis powers, Germany foremost.(1) The Allies occupied Iran, began pumping it's oil to Russia, and forced the reigning King, Reza Shah, to give up his power to his son, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi.(1)

1951: Dr. Mohammad Mosaddeq, a nationalist and fiercly against foriegn intervention, was elected as Prime Minister by popular democratic vote.(14) He nationalized the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company (later British Petroluem), which had formerly been under British control.(14) Britain, angered at this, enforced sanctions on Iran and refused to allow any oil to leave Iran.(14)

1952: This debate with Britain created an economic crisis in Iran, but Mosaddeq was still consider popular, and was approved for a second term.(14) He used this opportunity to request emergency powers from the Shah, which he agreed to.(14) When Mosaddeq decided to elect a Minister of War, as indicated in the Constitution, the Shah refused, leading to Mosaddeq's resignation.(14) His replacement, Ahmad Qavam, announced his intent to end the oil dispute with Britain, which led to public outrage and the quick reappointment and the grant of military power to Mosaddeq.(14) Mosaddeq declared Britain an enemy in October 1952 and ceased all diplomatic relations with the United Kingdom.(14)

1953: Great Britain, having trouble getting control of the Iranian oil industry back, turned to the US for help.(14) British Intelligence convinced the US that Mosaddeq was turning towards Communism and The Soviet Union and needed to be removed.(14) Soon after, President Eisenhower authorized "Operation Ajax," a CIA lead mission to overthrow Mosaddeq and put in place a US-friendly monarchy.(1) This operation, conducted from the safety of the US Embassy in Tehran and led by Kermit Roosevelt Jr. (senior officer in the CIA's Middle Eastern division) used various forms of covert war to accomplish it's goal, including: hired Iranian protestors (paid to fight pro-Mosaddeq demonstrators), CIA Operatives posing as socialists and nationalist threatening Muslim leaders, and other forms of propaganda.(1)(15) Operation Ajax was successful and led to the capture of Mosaddeq, who was tried for treason and sentenced to three years in prison.(1)

1954-1977: Mohammad Reza Pahlavi returned to power, greatly supporting the US and UK, and continued modernizing Iran.(1) In 1957, he created the SAVAK, an intelligence agency with unlimited unchecked power and tasked with crushing opposition of the current monarchy.(16) Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, who was popular in religious circles, rose up and publicly denounced the Shah Pahlavi and was arrested and sentenced to 18 months in prison.(1) After being released, he began to criticize the United States government and was soon sent into exile in Turkey, then Iraq, then France, all the while denouncing the Shah Pahlavi.(1)

1978: After intense demonstrations and strikes, the Shah Pahlavi was forced to flee the country leading to the downfall of his monarchy.(1) The Iranian (Islamic) Revolution created an Islamic Republic, under the rule of Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini.(1)

1979: On April 1st, 1979, Iran became an official Islamic Republic after the landslide approval of a national referendum.(1) Soon after, a theocratic constitution was approved democratically, and made Khomeini Supreme Leader of the country.(1) During this revolution, Iranian students captured the Tehran US Embassy, accusing it of being a "den of [CIA] spies" plotting to overthrow this new revolutionary government.(1) The students had not asked permission from Khomeini for this action, but he did support it after hearing it was successful.(1) Within the first few months, the Iranians released most of the women and the African American hostages, while still with-holding 52 hostages for a total of 444 days.(1) In exchange for the hostages, the students demanded the Shah Pahlavi, who had previously escaped the country, and that the hostages be tried for espionage.(1)

1981: The Algiers declaration was signed, which facilited the release of the hostages in exchange for certain provisions on the United State's part.(1) Included in the accord were promises that the US would: not intervene in Iran's internal affairs, payoff Iran's debts to US institutions, handle the transfer of the previous Shah's properties, and remove sanctions and freezes on Iranian assets (which has, in 2007, still not be done!).(17)

(I know these are out of order, but it is easier to seperate these two incidents.)

1980: Before officially attacking Iran, Iraqi-sponsored terrorists attacked the Iranian Embassy in London.(7) A "six-man terrorist team calling itself the "Democratic Revolutionary Movement for the Liberation of Arabistan" (DRMLA), captured the" Iranian Embassy.(18) Initially, these terrorists made demands for the independance of Khuzestan, then switched and demanded the release of 91 "comrades" who were being held prisoner in Iran.(18) During the capture of the building, 26 hostages were captured, with 5 being released shortly after.(18) After the execution of one of the hostages on the sixth day, the London Metropolitan Commisioner declared it a military operation and it was quickly ended by Special Forces.(18)

1980-1989: Seeking to capitalize on the instability of revolutionary Iran, Saddam Hussein invaded on September 22, 1980.(1) Saddam boasted his forces would march upon Tehran within three days.(1) By 1982, Iranian forces had managed to push back to the Iraqi border, when Khomeini decided to send his revolutionary ideas westward into Iraq.(1) During the war, Iraq was backed by much of the free world, including, among others: Egypt, the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact States, the United States, France, the UK, Germany, Brazil, and PRC(China).(1)


The war continued into 1988, when both sides accepted a UN mediated truce.(1)

(1) en.wikipedia.org...
(2) en.wikipedia.org...
(3) en.wikipedia.org...
(4) en.wikipedia.org...
(5) en.wikipedia.org...
(6) en.wikipedia.org...
(7) en.wikipedia.org...
(8) en.wikipedia.org...
(9) en.wikipedia.org...
(10)en.wikipedia.org...
(11)en.wikipedia.org...
(12)en.wikipedia.org...
(13)en.wikipedia.org...
(14)en.wikipedia.org...
(15)en.wikipedia.org...
(16)en.wikipedia.org...
(17)en.wikipedia.org...
(18)en.wikipedia.org...

Those are the quoted sources. Was gonna do a synopsis, but it's all there in B&W.

-Warlo

Now that was a bizzarre post from someone who says

Fortunately (or unfortunately), as a previous poster indicated, we have developed sufficient brain capacity to allow us to overcome these various roadblocks in our way to total world domination (queue evil laugh).

-Warlo
Source

But thanks for cutting and pasting. the entire Iranian history from Wiki.

There is a decent write up in Wikipedia about this very topic...

en.wikipedia.org...

In regards to the picture you posted... FTA

"Iran Focus, one of numerous web outlets of the MKO militant group (based in Camp Ashraf, Iraq)[9] originally claimed that they had obtained a photograph of a younger Ahmadinejad with a hostage, which was quickly published by the major Western news agencies AP, Reuters, and AFP. Publication of the photograph drew criticism because it was presented to the world without due investigation or verification.

In response to the publication Saeed Hajjarian, a reformist politician with a background in intelligence, denied that the picture is Ahmadinejad. Hajjarian told Associated Press and later ISNA that the person in the photograph is a student named Taghi Mohammadi. Associated Press and other sources reported that Mohammadi was a militant who later turned into a dissident. He was arrested for being connected to the MKO and was involved in the assassinations of President Mohammad Ali Rajai and Prime Minister Mohammad Javad Bahonar. He committed suicide in jail.[10]

Alternatively,Ebrahim Asgharzadeh, one of the spokesmen for the hostage-taking students, identified the figure in the photo as "Ranjbaran". Asgharzadeh claims Ranjbaran was hanged for being a spy for MKO.[11]

On July 2, 2005 the LA Times reported that "A U.S. official familiar with the investigation of Ahmadinejad's role said that analysts had found "serious discrepancies" between the figure depicted in the 1979 photo and images of the Iranian president. The discrepancies included differences in facial structure and features.[12]"

Sorry for the lengthy quote.

Originally posted by stompk
But thanks for cutting and pasting. the entire Iranian history from Wiki.

It was more like read and condense into a quickly read, semi-readable form. As I said before, it was originally intended for my own reference (I actually do have most of Iran's history...dating to about 4000 BCE), just thought I would paste a small portion of it as the OP's was not entirely accurate.

-Warlo

I appreciate the post.

Just not sure we needed the last 100 yrs of history.

Follow the pipeline trail, IE Royal Dutch/Shell.

One of the original Seven Sisters.

Interesting that the King of England used to be the Dutch Prince.

The oil ties and interest in invading Iran are just too many,
for me to believe it is over concern of Nuclear Weapons.

Originally posted by stompk
I appreciate the post.

Just not sure we needed the last 100 yrs of history.

Follow the pipeline trail, IE Royal Dutch/Shell.

One of the original Seven Sisters.

Interesting that the King of England used to be the Dutch Prince.

The oil ties and interest in invading Iran are just too many,
for me to believe it is over concern of Nuclear Weapons.

Yeah, probably right about the size of the post, I just like all the little ties in and around WWII.

-Warlo

Originally posted by stompk

But in the midst of Bush's summer, 1979 preparations for his presidential bid, there was one very serious moment of preparation that addressed the some real issues, albeit in a way virtually invisible from the campaign trail. This was a conference Bush attended at the Jonathan Institute in Jerusalem on July 2-5. Instead of mugging for the television cameras while eating hotdogs on the Fourth of July at a picnic in Iowa or New Hampshire, Bush journeyed to Israel for what was billed as the Jerusalem Conference on International Terrorism.

Could this be the time the plan was implemented?

Thanks for the post Stompke, I'm glad you brough this up. I always thought that Ahmadinejad was Mossad placed in position in his youth to eventually take the role of provacateur to provide the excuse for invasion. No. 1 for ethnic cleansing, No. 2 for oil, No. 3 for land for the Caspian-Persian Gulf pipeline.

The hostage crisIs (1979-1981) was a scam/put-up job engineered to provide an excuse to freeze Iranian assets (and probably other reasons one of which was to kick start Ahmadinejads career) both in the U.S. and U.K. When President Carter tried to send a secret special force to release them, those helicopters they were to use were sabotaged (sand poured in the engine/rotor transmissions) aboard the very aircraft carrier that was taking them to the staging point. The Delta Force then proceeded to destroy itself in the rescue attempt. The rescue attempt had to be sabotaged to insure the Reagan/Bush election.

As you remember the hostage crises was solved when Bush secretly flew to Paris on October of 1980 (October Surprise, Barbara Honnegar, Gary Sick) and made a deal with the Khomeini that if he would delay the release of the hostages until Reagans election that the Reagan-Bush adminsitration would supply unlimited arms and ammunition for the term of the adminsitration. And, of course, that is what happened.

The Iran Contra investigation only investigated as far back as 1985 when the real stuff was happening back in 1980/1981.

Thanks for your post, it is very timely food for thought.

I'm just flabbergasted that the government even does this kind of stuff.

None of it is legal. Are they above the law?

Spending our money on what? Secretly overthrowing governments
that don't cooperate?

Take operation Ajax. The government admits they did it folks!

Look at our chemical weapons stockpile. We have millions of lbs of the stuff.
When 1 lb will destroy an entire cities population, why do we make soo much.

Then sign a treaty to destroy it? Why? Because it cost 7 times more to destroy the stuff than it did to make it.

And that was all in the plan. Plus, if the population wakes up, Bush has signed into law the ability to enforce martial law and use chemical weapons, including nerve agents, on the very people he we elected to protect.

We are on the verge of something big.

Since I am a man of God, I will point to prophecy in the Bible.

The beast that the Bible spoke of.

It rises up out of the sea, with 7 heads and 10 horns, with a woman dressed in red and scarlet, adorned in gold and jewels, and holding a gold cup.

The Bible then goes on to explain the prophecy's symbolism by telling us that the 7 heads are 7 mountains. And the 10 horns are 10 kings or rulers.

I propose the 7 mountains are the worlds central banks. The 10 kings are the UN nations, without the US and Isreal. When the 10th horn shows up, a smaller horn, whom is smaller, (Ahmadinejad is 5'2" and Iran is a small country) the Goat with two horns attacks it.

The woman riding the beast is representing the Queen of England, from the first Queen until now. She controls the money, called the Commonwealth.
Notice you hardly ever hear anything about the King, because the Queen is definitely the power.

The first Queen "Queen Bloody Mary" was extremely cruel and terrifying, and gobbled up all the power and wealth she could. When she died, most of the cruelty left, but the power and wealth control remained with the Queens throne.

In 1665, the Mystery Babylon (London) was sent a plague. And
in 1666, the next year, the city nearly burned to the ground.
The accounts tell of people watching from boats.

This fits with the bible. But, the city was supposed to be eliminated.
This is where the prophesy is unfulfilled.

The Goat is the US and Isreal.
If the US and Isreal attack Iran,
The Goat is defeated, by the Beast, and the
antichrist rises up until Jesus intervenes.

So I believe this fits with the prophecy in Revelation, and therefore we are indeed in the end time of the prophecy, and we need to prepare, or the possibility that this could happen, and we could change the direction...

OK, so back to the subject. Why Iran is so important right now.

The US firm Unocal recently had its own interests in construction of a pipeline across Burma to Thailand. In 2004, Unocal settled in a case brought under the US Alien Tort Claims Act charging the company was complicit with forced labor and other rights abuses by the Burmese regime. (Radio Free Asia, Dec. 18, 2004) In 2005, Unocal's French partner Total agreed to compensate victims to the tune of 6 million euros ($7.2 million), paid into a fund for humanitarian projects. (EarthRights International, Nov. 29, 2005) The Yadana pipeline is functioning today—and being protested by global ecologists for its impacts on the sensitive rainforest regions it cuts through. (Qatar Gulf Times, Sept. 4, 2007)

But now that Burma is integrating with India—which is, in turn, seeking a new gas pipeline with Iran—the Rangoon junta has manifestly outlived its usefulness to the US elites. National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley announced Sept. 24 that President Bush will impose new sanctions on the Burmese regime in a bid to support the pro-democracy movement..

Source

Iran Urges India To Support Pipeline

OK, so Bush suddenly supports pro-democracy movement in Burma, and suddenly it's in the mainstream media. But the truth is, the monks have been protesting for the people for decades
Video New Report Source

So, my question is if we are supporting the Myanmar in the Pro-democracy movement, that means we are trying to oust the current government in order to instill a pro western government, that supports a pipeline through their country.

Think about it, the reason the monks are protesting is because they raised the gas prices so high, that the people couldn't support the monks.

Burma has lots of natural gas, and China has bases there, to protect their access to the Indian Ocean.

With Ahmadinejad in control, that ensures Iran will build the pipeline. And the elite can also use him to reason with the American Public to ramp up for war, possibly nuclear. That way the US gov. pumps billions into the war machine, over the amount we are already putting into Iraq, borrowing for the Fed, who just conveniently lowered interest rates...

But I think there is a rift between the Bushes and the illuminati, because Bush senior is heavily invested in Saudi Oil which has taken over the industry.

Bush senior and the Skull and Crossbones society, I propose, are seeking total control, which has greatly angered the Queen. Maybe that is why Blair stepped down, because he was to chummy with Bush Jr.

By putting a direct pipeline from Iran to India, beings how most of the oil in India is still under control of the Royal Commonwealth, the Queen regains superiority in the most important of treasures, black gold.

President Bush is playing right into their plan, which is to have the US attack Iran, so the ever powerful China and Russia (the mouth of a lion, and the feet of a bear) can combine to defeat US and Israel.

We are strategically positioned, but our troops are too spread out, and they have been fighting for a long time now. The defense at home is greatly weakened now. China cashes in all of their US dollar at once, crashing the economy, and sits off of the coast and "softens" the country from subs off the coasts.

Of course, both Russia and China are funded by loans from the world bank system which is rooted in London. Once the US is defeated, the bank takes America as payment on the loan. Boom, the antichrist is put in power of the US. For 3 1/2 yrs, all is peaceful. Then, things get ugly.

Anyway, this is a conspiracy "theory" forum.

Excellent post John. You're given me the desire to go back and do some investigating of the entire Iran/Contra affair. I always thought there was a lot more to it than we were told.

very difficult to prove because those responsible would have made it their top priority to destroy all evidence.

One thing that does lend credence to your theory though is the fact that he overdoes/exaggerates his anti-isreal stance. Its almost like its staged/faked. Which politician in his right mind would launch weekly verbal attacks on isreal and make statements about the holocaust on which much of the world (including islamic countries) disagree with?

I bet you could find more on your theory in the islamic world itself. There are certainly iranian researchers that are looking into the theory.

I was thinking the exact same thing!

Check this out. It's an article from June, 2001 talking about the Iran Arms Scandal.

A federal appeals court had overturned Lieut. Colonel Oliver North's felony conviction, and a retrial seemed unlikely. The same outcome seemed possible for former National Security Adviser John Poindexter's conviction.

..The Iran-contra affair may be only part of a broader and previously undisclosed pattern of illegal activities by intelligence agencies during the tenure of Ronald Reagan and his CIA chief William Casey. Sources close to the unfolding investigation of the Bank of Credit & Commerce International told TIME that U.S. intelligence agencies, including the CIA, maintained secret accounts with the globe-girdling financial empire
Source

Ah Ha. "Globe girdling financial empire". It's always about money, isn't it.

Why all the problems with China's imports?
China continues to borrow despite heavy debt.

Right now Beijing still bars its local governments from raising funds by issuing bonds of various sorts; and yet why would it so graciously grant IFC the "privilege" of issuing bonds?

See where this is going.
They fund both sides...
War, is profitable to the elite.
It also controls populations, breeding lines, etc.

Consider the career of George H.W. Bush. He was a Texas oilman (Zapata Oil) and a CIA operative, involved with the Bay of Pigs. Bush’s name was found in the papers of George DeMohrenschildt, one of Lee Harvey Oswald’s CIA handlers. As documented by Pete Brewton, author of The Mafia, the CIA and George Bush, Bush was deeply connected with a small circle of Texas elites tied to the CIA and the Mafia, as well as the Florida-based CIA/anti-Casto Cuban exile/ Mafia milieu As Richard Nixon’s hand-picked Republican National Committee chairman, and later as CIA director, Bush constantly covered-up and stonewalled for his boss about Watergate, which itself (by the admission of Frank Sturgis and others) was a cover-up of the JFK assassination.
The Last Confession of E. Howard Hunt.

Bush has been a player for a long time.

Demonizing Ahmadinejad

[edit on 2-10-2007 by stompk]

Defense Secretary Nominee Robert Gates Tied to Iran-Contra Scandal and the Secret Arming of Saddam Hussein??

2006/11/09
President Bush nominated former CIA director Robert Gates on Wednesday to replace Donald Rumsfeld as Secretary of Defense. We take a look at Gates’ role at the CIA in connection to the Iran-Contra scandal and the secret arming of Saddam Hussein with former CIA analyst Mel Goodman, who testified before the Senate in 1991 against the nomination of Gates as CIA director, and investigative journalist Bob Parry who helped expose Iran-Contra.

Source

President Bush and (left to right) Gen. Peter Pace, Defense Secretary Robert Gates and Adm. Mike Mullen. Photo by Saul Loeb AFP/Getty Images.


Video

[edit on 2-10-2007 by stompk]

I agree that Ahmadinejad has the earmarks of a CIA asset. I've posted the opinion before. One simply has to look at statements he has made since he got into office. It's almost as if he is reading scripts written at CIA headquarters. He has pushed all the obnoxious buttons. He's a neocon expansionist's wet dream of a villain to crush.

I always thought someone got to him during the embassy occupation. The only things he's said that make me wonder are his hints that 911 was an inside job. Maybe he's conflicted in his role now. He's a guy that is hard to figure out.

The most glaring flaw in this theory is that, allegedly, MA is supposed to be setting the stage for Western powers to invade. But if this were true, what the hell is taking him so long?

Maybe it's enough that MA periodically provides a glaring example of just exactly the sort of boogieman that the Bush administration says the world is full of.

Bush can then go to the senate appropriations committee and say "See see! He wants to wipe Israel off the map. Where is it going to end? The next smoking gun could be a mushroom cloud! Fork over some more dough."

Actual invasion can come when the neocons think they can get the job done with the least amount of aggravation. Or at this stage in the game they might be willing to settle just for a steady leeching of the US treasury.

Here is an excerpt from an interesting editorial.

Combined with Saudi Arabia as an "ally" (although they are the major cradle and financiers of Al-Qaeda terrorists), with control of the Iraq and Iran oil reserves, and Afghanistan for a gas/oil pipeline, the U.S. would control the primary oil reserves in the world. (The Bush Administration is particularly focused on Chavez, by the way, because Venezuela produces oil and has what many consider to be large untapped offshore reserves, which will be needed as the Middle Eastern lighter oil becomes depleted.)

Western interest in asserting "ownership" of the oil in the Middle East goes back to the early 1900s when the British militarily dominated Iraq and later wrested virtual ownership of the Iranian oil reserves. In fact, when a Democratically-elected and generally pro-Western government was elected in Iran, the U.S. overthrew it in 1953 because the charismatic head of state had the "radical idea" of declaring that the Persian oil fields belonged to Iran, not Britain. (This caused the chain of events, after the installation of the Shah, that has led to the current hardline Islamic government in Tehran.)
Scoop

I think President Bush is addicted to oil, not the US.

[edit on 4-10-2007 by stompk]