Pictures fron MAKS-2007

WOW Russia has some nice toys, take a look at the model of that Stelthy Plane: maks.sukhoi.ru...

Anymore information on this?

Shattered OUT...

Mod Edit: Image Size – Please Review This Link.

Mod Edit: Image Hotlinking – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 23/8/2007 by Mirthful Me]

The Stealthy model you refer to is not a Russian "toy" but rather a Chinese one, designed and being developed by Shenyang Design Institute.
The name "Anjian" means "Invisible Sword" in Chinese.

"Invisible sword", China's pilotless aircraft unveiled: People's Daily, October 31, 2006

What about this?
Russian scramjet?

and these?
maks.sukhoi.ru...
maks.sukhoi.ru...

unmanned stealth copter?


[edit on 24-8-2007 by Daedalus3]

maks.sukhoi.ru...


for the SU-27 maybe? or a new version of the MiG-35 AESA?


and that scramjet - i`ve seen it somewhere else - a while ago as well

[edit on 24/8/07 by Harlequin]

reply to post by Daedalus3

Daedalus,
If you are asking me about my response - it was in answer to Yasky's statement regarding the model of a stealthy plane. If your statement has nothing to do with my reply to Yasky then please forgive me for my assumption.

While all of the craft you mentioned are certainly interesting, the scramjet aircraft is not stealthy and the stealthy choppers aren't planes and therefore are not the specific aircraft that Yasky was referring to.

Originally posted by Harlequin
for the SU-27 maybe? or a new version of the MiG-35 AESA?

The ZHUK-MFE is the export version that India is getting.
This IS an X band AESA radar.

In Air to air mode, the MFE can track over 30 targets in the "track-while-scan" mode, and can attack 6 targets simultaneously. Detection ranges for an object of 3 square meters can be up to 140 kilometers.

In the air-to-ground mode it can do SAR terrain mapping, doppler beam focusing, track 4 ground/sea targets simultaneously. Detection ranges for ground and sea targets are as follows:

Destroyer - 300km
Missile Cruiser - 200km
Railway Bridge - 130 km
Tanks (moving) - 40 km

I did not find this info on the web - therefore no link.

Thats awesome......where i can i get toys like these

Originally posted by intelgurl
reply to post by Daedalus3

 

Daedalus,
If you are asking me about my response - it was in answer to Yasky's statement regarding the model of a stealthy plane. If your statement has nothing to do with my reply to Yasky then please forgive me for my assumption.

While all of the craft you mentioned are certainly interesting, the scramjet aircraft is not stealthy and the stealthy choppers aren't planes and therefore are not the specific aircraft that Yasky was referring to.

Oh my queries were completely independant of the dialogue between you and Yasky I'm afraid!


Just picking out stuff from the MAKS 07 picture album that was unfamiliar to me actually!

Originally posted by intelgurl

Originally posted by Harlequin
for the SU-27 maybe? or a new version of the MiG-35 AESA?

The ZHUK-MFE is the export version that India is getting.
This IS an X band AESA radar.

Well not yet it!
Like they say, it ain't over till the fat lady sings; here the fat ladies being corrupt lazy(and fat might I add) Indian govt officials!
They've been sitting on that fighter RFP for years now!

btw, word here has it that the American entrants in the RFP might not be the underdogs afterall! Its anybody's guess..

Thank you Intelgirl - i do have a link to similar information regarding the ZHUK-ME - whats interseting is that from your figures - the MFE is actually better than than the ME in detection capability - which sugests an increase in the number of modules.

the zhuk-me has (reported) an antenna size 575 mm and the number of TR modules at 680


edit:
sorry got it now the MFE is 700MM and has 1088 TR modules

forum.keypublishing.co.uk...

related to above (sorry its another forum)


700MM and 1088 places it firmly against the latest US AESA systems - and apparantly is a simple upgrade to existing MiG-29 radars.


[edit on 24/8/07 by Harlequin]

Originally posted by Harlequin


700MM and 1088 places it firmly against the latest US AESA systems - and apparantly is a simple upgrade to existing MiG-29 radars.


[edit on 24/8/07 by Harlequin]

Say again?Upgrades to existing radars? Like the Zhuk-M?

Well Daedalus's comments might not have been directed at intelgurl, but my question is.

Intelgurl you mention the Phazatron Zhuk MFE, I assume this is the same as or a sub variant of the Zhuk AE. If so I was recently having a discussion with Westy about the comparative performance and technology of the Zhuk AE versus the APG-79. I read an unexplained commentary that the two are technically comparable, but as Westy pointed out the array size and module count are considerably different. From memory the Zhuk has around 620-650 T/R modules and an array of 550mm where as the APG-79 has 1100 T/R's and around 700mm array. Can you enlighten me as to whether there is any truth that the two systems are broadly comparable, the source document was by a generally reliable commentator.

Ok, so while I was drafting the above something weird happened and I did not see the latest posts by Harlequin and Daedalus.... which neatly explain part of what I was asking. Nonetheless, the question about comparable performance remains.

LEE.

[edit on 24-8-2007 by thebozeian]

reply to post by Daedalus3



It would seem there are 3 radars - the ZHUK-ME , the ZHUK-AE and the ZHUK-MFE - the -ME is NOT AESA but can be upgraded to AESA.

The Zhuk-AE/FGA29 radar can be built by converting Zhuk-ME radars. Phazotron-NIIR will probably offer this manufacturing option for users of Zhuk-ME such as Algeria, Eritrea, India and Yemen.

it would seem that the Zhuk-MFE was the `original` but weighed too much at 450kg`s - so they built a slimmed down version `the Zhuk-AE` using similar technology but made it smaller - but now they got the weight problem sorted on the -MFE and can now market it.

[edit on 24/8/07 by Harlequin]

rambling thoughts time:

supposition - these are the same TR modules as on the Zhuk-AE , and we have published data on those - they have 5 watts per channel

so 1088x5 = 5.4 kw of radar power - which is near enough right on the money (peak would probably go to near double) as the APG-77.


so we have a radar which is comparable to that flown on the AESA super bugs

(just coming onstream and faulty www.janes.com...)

and the AESA F-15`s - in fact i would go so far as to say it may well be better.


and the smaller version is available as an upgrade (in situ) from older kit.

Why do you insist on making states such as these?

Originally posted by Harlequin
...700MM and 1088 places it firmly against the latest US AESA systems...
...so we have a radar which is comparable to that flown on the AESA super bugs...

In terms of size and modules, yes, it is very close to the AN/APG-79 and therefore comparable, still not quite near other US radars. Anyway, when it comes to overall capability and effectiveness size and TR module count are only one factor. As I have mentioned before there are other things to consider such as, multi function, electronic attack, tracking and detection capabilities, low probably of intercept, ISR capabilities, communication, simultaneous modes of operation, NCTR, SAR resolution etc... This is where (my opinion of course) US AESA radars have an advantage.

Originally posted by Harlequin
...so 1088x5 = 5.4 kw of radar power - which is near enough right on the money (peak would probably go to near double) as the APG-77...

Still insisting I see... The AN/APG-77(v)1 is a 950mm class radar with ~2,000 TR modules. Each module has a published max output of 8 watts, this gives the APG-77 a theoretical total output of 16 Kw. You might want to check your source(s) and recalculate...

Disclaimer: The exact power output of the AN/APG-77 and it's TR modules is classified.

Originally posted by Harlequin
...and the AESA F-15`s - in fact i would go so far as to say it may well be better...

Again, like I said, size and TR module count are but one determining factor when it comes to assessing the capabilities and effusiveness of AESA radars. However just in case you're wondering the AN/APG-63(v)3/4 are 900mm class radars with a TR count of ~1,500. Total power output per module is near the APG-77, although exact figures are classified.

made an error when comparing the APG-77 , was meant to be APG-79 ( as per super hornet et al) which is the correct comparison.

the USN have 24 AESA equipped SH BUT they are faulty (see janes link) and even now are still being worked on

so i happily stand by the statement of them (Khuk-mfe) being more than a match.

All the paper claims about the US radar in the world don`t mean squat when they don`t work properly.


maybe the US need to the get there own first generation AESA working properly first beofre deploying it.


the only F-15 with a 900mm aesa is the f-15E (apg-70 which is the apg-79 front end coupled to an apg-63(v1) back end) and upgrades only started in 2005 - the `C` models have apg-63(v1) and 18 have the (v2) which is aesa.

the apg-63(v2) is used on 18 F-15c and is a test bed model.

aesa is not as widely deployed as you think.

web.interware.hu...

www.aiaa.org...

www.raytheon.com...
^^ specs on the apg-63(v1) which is not aesa.

Originally posted by Harlequin
the USN have 24 AESA equipped SH BUT they are faulty (see janes link) and even now are still being worked on...

Semantics... yes they're still being worked on, i.e. software updates and integration, nothing unusual for advanced radars in LRIP. Anyway, these early technical glitches will be fixed and the AN/APG-79 will be installed on all USN Super Hornets as they will get upgraded to the Block II+ standard. The USN is retiring the classical Hornet and is on contract to order roughly ~600 Rhinos, this could increase to as much as 800 depending on how certain things go.

Originally posted by Harlequin
so i happily stand by the statement of them (Khuk-mfe) being more than a match.

As I said before, in terms of size and TR module count, yes, however that is only one factor when determining capability.

Originally posted by Harlequin
All the paper claims about the US radar in the world don`t mean squat when they don`t work properly.

Oh they work just fine, as I said before software upgrade and fixes to a new radar are nothing new or alarming. The AN/APG-79 program will progress just fine.

Originally posted by Harlequin
...maybe the US need to the get there own first generation AESA working properly first beofre deploying it.

Now you're talking out your backside and resorting to petty swipes, needless to say your wrong, but that's besides the point.

Originally posted by Harlequin
...the only F-15 with a 900mm aesa is the f-15E...

The AN/APG-70 is not AESA. The USAF will upgrade the 178 newest F-15C's in service with the AN/APG-63(v)3, on top of the current 18 that have the (v)2. Likely future upgrades include fitting all 224 F-15E's with the AN/APG-63(v)4 seeing as how they will remain in service past 2025 and since the APG-70 is no longer in production.

Originally posted by Harlequin
...the apg-63(v2) is used on 18 F-15c and is a test bed model.

No it is not, the 18 "Golden Eagles" upgraded with the (v)2 have been deployed and operational at Elmendorf AFB, Alaska for years now and they will remain in service for decades to come. The (v)2 design was developed into the (v)3/4 but it is still very much operational and fully combat capable.

Originally posted by Harlequin
...aesa is not as widely deployed as you think.

AESA is the future, in a decades time the US will become essentially an all AESA fighter force, with the exception of the retiring F-16's and A-10's.

If only humans made toys to bring life instead of fear it into death or submissive control from religious and political rogues. THough i must say id like to own a stealth ufo rather than a modern aircraft with wings.. space..here i come!

Originally posted by WestPoint23
The USN is retiring the classical Hornet and is on contract to order roughly ~600 Rhinos, this could increase to...

Really Westy 600? I thought it was less than that, although I heard recently that another order was in the works, I didn't realise it would bring the total tp 600. Does this Figure include the EA-18G's?

....as much as 800 depending on how certain things go.

And those "certain things" might be "issues" with the F-35 I assume?. BTW wasn't the original Rhino order for over a thousand?

LEE.