The deeper roots of conspiracy-theory

The conspiracy-theorist has suspicions. I open this thread to explore the deeper roots of suspicion and why this suspicion is well-founded and there are very, very good reasons for this suspicion.

The deeper roots of conspiracy-theory or suspicion go back to birth. I am born here without knowledge or memory of where I am from, who I am, where I am, whats going on, who all the others are...THAT alone should be enough to make me suspicious. Who is behind all this? Whats going on? Then, as I grow up I hear thousands of different contradictory voices trying to explain to me what reality is, whats going on...and all the while I sense they dont have a clue themselves. And their explanations dont make much sense to me. Them acting like they understand whats going on while they still cant tell me where they are from and who they are, makes me even more suspicious.

Then I start seeing masses of people who dont even bother explaining anything anymore. They dont seem to care about the big questions bothering me. They take the whole thing for granted and go about their small lives unquestioning, docile, fast alseep under some kind of hypnosis.

So it is only natural that a thinking, feeling being suspects some kind of secret, some kind of hidden agenda, some kind of conspiracy. "Something is going on that I dont see"...obviously.

Although I dont believe in the negativity and hatred that some conspiracy-theorists develop over time, I do see why we would start being suspicious.
So when some politican or psychologist or media outlet tells me that being a conspiracy-theorist is "crazy" and "paranoid", I wonder just WHO the crazy person is. The one that questions consensus-reality is certainly not crazy but very healthy in my opinion.

What do you think?

I think "conspiracy" has developed a bad name throughout the years and I think that bad name was given to it by those who had the most to hide.

IE: George W. Bush --regarding is repeated usage of the words "outlandish conspiracy theories regarding the events of september the 11th" this context denotes that any conspiracy theory is absurd as are those that promulgate them.

However, any way you look at 9/11, it was a conspiracy. Either a bunch of Jew/American hating Arabs conspired to hijack and fly planes into the world trade centers and pentagon. Or those in the upper echelons of power within the united states (and other?) governments conspired to commit the attacks and blame them on Jew/American hating Arabs to further their own agenda.

Either way, there is a conspiracy there, and combatants from both sides of this particular batter are "Conspiracy Theorists" because only a select few know EXACTLY what took place that day back in 2001. Therefore, the rest is speculation and therefore THEORY.

I think the main thing ALL of these conspiracy theorists need to look at is WHO STANDS TO GAIN. The perpetrator of ANY conspiracy is most likely the person or persons that GAINED from the event in question.

Does that make any sense? I don't know, I'm tired haha.


Jasn

Sure it makes sense and you adress some good points, but it does not refer to the intended thread topic which is "the deeper roots of suspicion" and the very first conspiracy: being born.

Suspicion is pure animal instinct.

On-guard, aware, alert, inquisitive and desperately seeking truth.

Some close their eyes, focus on what's in front of them and go..."Baaaaaah, baaaah".

Sometimes, for me, it's not always about changing someones view towards a "suspicious" subject, but to simply change their view from blinkered to peripheral and beyond and let them find the truth for themselves.

There is NO better proof than our own senses.

I like to think of why I'm here at ATS as a fence destroyer more than a kind shepherd or guardien collie. Try to let them know what's out there and just how big it all is.

No more sheeple only people.

I enjoy reading the conspiracy stuff. I find some of it somewhat plausible to borderline paranoid, and most it it very entertaining.

As I had kids and they grew, I'd watch the History Channel, TLC, even PBS shows with the kids. When old clips of historical stuff was on, I'd ask if any of it looked familiar in hopes of that one nugget of past life or re-incarnation. It never happened. Now my kids will play the same game with me and it is humorous.

I find that some people want to place the blame of their lot in life on someone else or some group beyond their control. Instead of a person doing the right thing it's so and so's fault because.... This also can apply to a person's personal life for poor decision making. When someone doesn't understand a problem or can't believe what is being told to them, well then the news giver is part of the group keeping people uninformed of what really happened.

SimiusDei is a good example of this mindset. It doesn't matter what the topic is about. To him, it's GW and 9/11. People like this really do need help. This isn't a slam on the guy, he just needs help but has no one to tell him except his internet family.

This is totally different than the need for national secrecy for military matters or governmental work that has strategic value to an enemy. This is common sense, which most people have limited amounts to expend. But again, it falls under the grand conspiracy because the person knows just enough to confuse them. This is the purpose of secrecy, to keep people from knowledge that would give aid or comfort to an enemy.

I think, as an internet expert with 4 grown kids, that having children is a conspiracy by grandparents to drive their own children nuts. They shower the grandkids with gifts their own children never dreamed of let alone received.

Just a thought...

I don't really see the deeper roots of conspiracy theory going all the way back to the moment of birth. I think the initial roots for conspiracy theory are placed during our upbringing. Say we have parents who teach us to question everything around us in order to learn how/why it is or works? I personally feel this is the true "root" of conspiracy theory, being raised with an open mind.

The reason I discount the "at birth" theory is, when I look around, I see a whole lot of people who just lead life like it's already laid out and ready. They go about their day to day business and rarely question anything.


Jasn

Maybe a root of conspiracy theory is broken trust.

Perhaps when someone was young there was an adult they trusted, an adult who helped shaped the childes view of reality.

And one day this child found out that about 60 % of what there trusted mentor had taught them was lies.

From that point on the child begins to wonder what else was a lie and if they can not trust there mentor, can the trust anyone ?
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That's just my two bit. I hope I was not of topic.

A conspiracy theorist already has their own answer. There would be no conspiracy if what was told to you, you believed to be true. Conspiracy theorists only ask questions in an attempt to prove their answer to be true....they never bother to question that their own answer could be wrong.....however they could learn to accept it.....maybe after learning what someone else believes to be true, and it making a little sense.

Maybe reality is the conspiracy, our brains decieving us as to what is really going on around us. Maybe we are all dead, and this is hell? That would suck, because I always thought of death to be the "real" answer to the question.

Suspicion is for the scared....sorry....no insult intended there. You are suspicious because you fear that the truth you were told is false. Why bother caring if your government lies to you to secure middle eastern oil, as it will happen whether we like it or not, and will continue to happen no matter what anyone says. Some things shouldn't be questioned, as an answer will never come, atleast an answer that everyone will believe. All it takes, is 40 years down the line, for the CIA to disclose more information to the public about our own government being responsible for the whole 9-11 thing for instance.......for everyone to all of a sudden believe that the government did it all. Conspiracy theorists were right all along....but now the ones that believed the story their own government told them long ago are wrong...will they feel duped? Sure...they will believe that they were duped 40 years ago, once again believing the story their own government tells them.

I don't know where I am going with this......I am a little tired and dunno if any of this makes sense.

Hey skyfloating

Don't feel depressed about having these kinds of questions, if you are a seeker then this is the first step to being enlightened in TRUTH.

TRUTH is the hardest to understand as it flies in the face of everything you have been led to believe and taught.

All you need to do is remain awake and aware of yourself and always ask questions.

So all I can say is welcome to the club and don't get too angry !!

Val

hinky writes: "As I had kids and they grew, I'd watch the History Channel, TLC, even PBS shows with the kids. When old clips of historical stuff was on, I'd ask if any of it looked familiar in hopes of that one nugget of past life or re-incarnation. It never happened."

Skyfloating: I wonder what questions kids ask before they are "taught" about our world.

nerbot writes: "On-guard, aware, alert, inquisitive and desperately seeking truth"

Skyfloating: Exactly.

SimusDei writes: "The reason I discount the "at birth" theory is, when I look around, I see a whole lot of people who just lead life like it's already laid out and ready. They go about their day to day business and rarely question anything"

Skyfloating: What I meant was the CONSPIRACY does not start with 911, it starts at birth. You are born but you dont know how, why, from where, who, etc. I suspect that is the first time you say: "Something strange is going on here".


DarkMile: Maybe a root of conspiracy theory is broken trust.

Fred: Very good point. Thats exactly how conspiracy-thinking begins.

Saintnuke: Maybe reality is the conspiracy, our brains decieving us as to what is really going on around us. Maybe we are all dead, and this is hell? That would suck, because I always thought of death to be the "real" answer to the question.

Skyfloating: Yes, maybe reality itself is the grandest conspiracy.

Saintnuke: Suspicion is for the scared....sorry....no insult intended there

Skyfloating: Well, being born with amnesia of why, what, how, from where, who, wouldnt make you suspicious? I recall being suspicious as a child.

Valorian: Don't feel depressed about having these kinds of questions, if you are a seeker then this is the first step to being enlightened in TRUTH.

Fred: I am fine and happy today. But I recall being a "conspiracy-theorist" as a little child. I even suspected my parents of being evil aliens holding me as a prisoner once when I was a kid. And all of that because I couldnt understand where I was and did not buy what my parents and teachers tried to teach me.

So the basic question that this thread asks is:

Is not the moment and process of birth itself, without knowing where-from and why, enough grounds for suspicion?

And the secondary question would be:

Wouldnt life/reality/existing (without knowledge of where-from, how and why) be the first "conspiracy" or topic we`d have to look into, before any other?

My answers to these questions are of course "yes" but I am curious as to how others see it.

Skyfloating

Always remember that YOU control your destiny, so only YOU can answer your questions, as I said beofre you should still yourself and listen...now you may be saying Oh crap...wtf!

You decided to manifest here on this plane of existence because your spirit felt it could learn more here than any other place or time. Being suspicious from birth is what future politicians do, and not seekers.

So that is my pennies on the table

Val

[edit on 31-7-2007 by Valorian]

I do not remember my birth....but I believe the light at the end of the tunnel is the light seeping through a vagina that I will shoot out upon going into the light....sorry....I got a wierd picture in my head now....birth is a little gross.....if there is a god he would have made that a cleaner process yah think? But anyways......birth comes not long after death, that being the death of a previous life. I think death connects you to the source(god?)....aka everything....giving you the answers to...well...everything. So at birth, I would know everything, and not worry or fear, especially with mommy and daddy nearby, as I was just dead probobly seconds before walking into the light and coming out a baby.
Sorry for the rambling, I am a total insomniac...maybe because soda is my water...but that has nothing to do with anything.
Ofcourse maybe the whole reincarnation thing isn't real.....as I myself have had no such experience, just an open mind and the question as to where my conciousness goes upon death that I answer with my reincarnation theory.
Well....to end this long post filled with many periods like such......I do not really have any beliefs so say, as I always learn something new...or atleast an alternative idea to an old one, if I don't keep a specific belief. Believing something shuts your mind off to anything your beliefs are against, ala the crusades and inquisitions of the middle ages.

I agree that I came here to experience the game and have fun. I also agree that I have a certain amount of control over my destiny.

But since this is a conspiracy-related forum, the idea is that conspiracy-theory can be traced back to being born with amnesia and not knowing wtf is going on. I find that this hasnt been touched on much. So its not about my personal worries that you are trying to sooth, its about exploring the collective worries of the conspiracy crowd.

Originally posted by saintnuke
I do not remember my birth....but I believe the light at the end of the tunnel is the light seeping through a vagina that I will shoot out upon going into the light....sorry....I got a wierd picture in my head now....birth is a little gross.....if there is a god he would have made that a cleaner process yah think? But anyways......birth comes not long after death, that being the death of a previous life. .

Yeah. But isnt it a bit strange that we hardly remember birth and much less what was before birth? And yes, it SHOULD be done in a more gentle and welcoming way.

Originally posted by saintnuke
Ofcourse maybe the whole reincarnation thing isn't real.....as I myself have had no such experience, just an open mind and the question as to where my conciousness goes upon death that I answer with my reincarnation theory.

Saintnuke, you are exactly right and correct!
YOU have never experienced re-incarnation before, BUT your spirit/soul has many time b4.
The spirit is the essence of God that has the priviledge to exist here and experience creation

Val

Originally posted by Valorian
Saintnuke, you are exactly right and correct!
YOU have never experienced re-incarnation before, BUT your spirit/soul has many time b4.
The spirit is the essence of God that has the priviledge to exist here and experience creation

Val

I also choose to believe that I wanted to incarnate here and before birth I was on spirit-plane waiting for my next incarnation and going about happy acitivities. I also choose to believe that we dont remember anything of "before" because thats part of experiencing this life more intensely.

(But there is the faint possibility of a cosmic conspiracy of not having chosen to come here but having been thrown here).

Still, apart from metaphysics, the point being made is that births-amnesia is the cause of suspicion.

i'd put the root or start of nuturing the "conspiracy theory" mind at around
our first social interaction in the world around us....

but definitely at Kindergarten (if not before then)
why kindergarten or daycare ??
because it will be glaringly obvious that some kids are favorites,
or are smarter or quicker & that at least one kid in the group is a bully.

They gotta have had some help or coaching or secret support from someone to get the priveledges
or had some secret access to answers to be so smart
or had coaching...or any number of thing that allowed these other kids to get advantages over yourself.

'conspiracy' is a direct result of having a situation affect you, & you can't
explain the how or why of the situation.

Who says that the amnesia comes right after birth? As you age, you learn more and more from the people around you. The people will teach you everything they themselves know about life for instance, and being a baby and all, you may start believing them, forgetting whatever it is you once knew to be true.
I don't remember much from when I was even 7 or 8, it is probobly still in my head somewhere, just like possible memories as a baby, they are simply forgotten....and maybe even replaced with some form of belief system.