Vedic math!!.. 2min vid..wow!!...can somebody please explain why this works??

HI THERE!!!

Im really sorry if this is in the wrong forum, there doesn't appear to be a maths forum, and science was this closest i could find.

I could have chosen a few other forums to put this in, but i had seen a few threads here with questions pertaining to mathematical principles, and wanted some input from our more "mathematically minded" ATSers to help me understand this.

Apparently, Ancient Yogis used to meditate on various mathematical ideas, trying to understand there relationships to us, the universe and the world around us.

Some of the stuff they came up with is ASTOUNDING.

EXAMPLE....
RULE: “all from 9 and the last from 10"
Only works with SUBTRACTING FROM 10s,100s,1000s, 10'000s etc

Subtract 487 from 1000 1000 - 487
9-4=5
9-8=1
LAST number,ALWAYS subtract from 10
10-7=3

1000-487=513

Try some yer self..... Here is a "user friendly" site....with tests to test your self. The site is down at the moment but was working a few hours ago, so check back at some point, its VERY satisfying
www.vedicmaths.org...

And a more "comprehensive" site...
www.vedamu.org...

The one im looking at, with a view to an explaination is this..

Its on a youtube video, and ABSOLUTELY FACINATING, i thought anyway.

Heres the video on how to do multiplication, its only short..about 2mins....
HOW CAN THIS BE SO SIMPLE??



Cheers
AoN

I love it...simply amazing...
I cannot wait to show this to people....
man is that ever cool
another example that numbers are indeed real.

That's pretty cool, did a few myself even with really large numbers.

Thanks for teaching me something today.
It's always a pleasure to learn at least one thing a day.

I think the way it works is kinda evident the way the lines are deployed and counting the intersections.

The fact it works and no western person would probably know that is what intrigues me....and to think I used to count on my fingers when I could be drawing lines

THIS is the way things should be taught in schools.

Numbers are so arbituary, All that really exists, is existence and non-existance...1 and 0.

We cram kids into regimented rows and expect these "visual" creatures to understand these "stand alone" concepts,..when numbers are just what we use to understand and "quantify" relationships.

Things like desimals, are born out of our need to "quantify" the universe. Yet the universe doesn't acknowledge a "half" or "0.1440 ", because they in themselves are just 1's..existing, seporate from the "nothing" which defines them.

Our minds would better cope with mathematical principles if our brains had this kind of platform to work with......I'm sure some of you are familiar with the Abacus(sp), and the 6yrs old+ kids that can do sums to 20 decimal places with an "imaginary" abicus(sp) on the table in frount of them....
Again, thats just 1s and zeros, a bead there, no bead there. and the same with this...a bisection there and one there. We could ALL have a better start in life with visual cues like these.

These RELTIONSHIPS, would be better understood when presented visually.

This is why "Sacred Geometry" is SO importent and SO facinating. The universe, the law of harmonics and resonance, so beautifully mirrored in both;the laws of Vibratory Physics AND the geometry.

I am pleased at the response this thread as gleaned, and i am pleased to have brought this to you for you obvious,collective appreciation.

Anyone have any idea as to "WHY" this works, its given me SUCH a head ache...and i LOVE IT!!

How do the number of "bisecting" lines enable this function.

INCREDIBLE to say the least.

Peace and good journies to you my friends

[edit on 5-6-2007 by Anomic of Nihilism]

[edit on 5-6-2007 by Anomic of Nihilism]

I had quite a chuckle... it's hardly "vedic math" but it is pretty interesting.

What you're being shown are some standard math shortcuts and tricks used by "mentalists" ... basically sideshow tricks (math shortcuts) that they use in circus sideshows and stage shows. If you study magic, there's books full of these shortcuts (I have one book with several chapters devoted to this, and there are math puzzle and game books that go over more of them.)

Why they aren't taught -- they only work for a limited number of things. If a teacher has the time, they could certainly bring these up. However, in a class where so many need practice in standard addition and subtraction, teaching the "tricks" (which only works with 9's or whatever pattern) confuses the slower students who will then try to apply it to other patterns.

Check out stage magic books and kids' books on math games. There's a lot of these amusing and amazing tricks that you can learn!

so its magic byrd?
gee I thought it was math
of course numbers are magic

Whilst i really DO admire your intellect there Byrd....

You do have this amazing way of making anything that might seem remotely inspirational to some, sound like a cold wet sponge

Your world can't be THAT "matter-of-fact" surely.

Its NOT magic, and its CERTAINLY not a trick....

Magic - definition....one among many:

the art of producing illusions as entertainment by the use of sleight of hand, deceptive devices, etc.; legerdemain; conjuring: to pull a rabbit out of a hat by magic.

Possessing distinctive qualities that produce unaccountable or baffling effects.

Trick - definition.....again, one among many:

a crafty or underhanded device, maneuver, stratagem, or the like, intended to deceive or cheat; artifice; ruse; wile.

an optical illusion: It must have been some visual trick caused by the flickering candlelight.

'Tis niether of these, what it is doing "works", and it shows the facinating relationship between geometry, and the HOW arbituary concepts in maths can can be expressed in terms of shape and their relationships thereof.

I found that facinating, i'm amazed by something new EVERYDAY, in awe of life and i LOVE IT that way ....

Put away that cold wet sponge my fair lady

AoN

[edit on 6-6-2007 by Anomic of Nihilism]

Originally posted by Anomic of Nihilism
Some of the stuff they came up with is ASTOUNDING.

EXAMPLE....
RULE: “all from 9 and the last from 10"
Only works with SUBTRACTING FROM 10s,100s,1000s, 10'000s etc

Subtract 487 from 1000 1000 - 487
9-4=5
9-8=1
LAST number,ALWAYS subtract from 10
10-7=3

1000-487=513

Ok I admit I'm no math whiz, and I can't view the video now, but can someone explain to me how what I quoted above is any different than the standard subtraction method? I must be missing something, because there's nothing in that example that I'd qualify as remotely astounding.

That was just a basic example of the "NIKHILAM NAVATAS’CARAMAM DASATAH", just one of their formulas.

There "astounding" bit IS the video, you'll have to watch that, its only a couple of minutes long. And VERY cool

Enjoy

AoN

This is simple, really. This is just a GRAPHICAL way to solve a multiplication problem as opposed to using your standard verticle operation where you multiply one number at a time to the one above and add the columns...

233X
122=
466+
4660+
23300=
28,426

The lines simply become representations of the numbers, although "numbers" are simply representatives of something in and of themselves. Multiplication is nothing more than factoring how many "somethings" result. So if I use the lines instead of the corresponding numbers, I am still counting the actual somethings.

Make it simple... 2x3 for example. If I draw 2 lines and intersect it with 3 lines I end up with 6 corresponding points. I don't really see what is so amazing about this. In fact, I believe that this is a slower method for solving complex multiplication problems. If you memorize your basic multiplication table of 0 thru 10 then complex multiplication is really quite easy to solve without all of the resultant drawing and counting.

Cheers, i've been looking at it and understand it alot better now.

I find it facinating because its a visual representation of what seems so "hidden" when doing standard multiplication using standard rules.

I would be very interested to see the relationships and/or equations that could be manifested using a 3D cuboid lattice structure, and other polygonals.

The way these methods make non-physical concepts, into a physical representation highlighting their harmonic relationships...THATS what i like about this

AoN

Originally posted by Anomic of Nihilism
Whilst i really DO admire your intellect there Byrd....

You do have this amazing way of making anything that might seem remotely inspirational to some, sound like a cold wet sponge

Your world can't be THAT "matter-of-fact" surely.

Its NOT magic, and its CERTAINLY not a trick....

Magic - definition....one among many:

the art of producing illusions as entertainment by the use of sleight of hand, deceptive devices, etc.; legerdemain; conjuring: to pull a rabbit out of a hat by magic.

Possessing distinctive qualities that produce unaccountable or baffling effects.

Trick - definition.....again, one among many:

a crafty or underhanded device, maneuver, stratagem, or the like, intended to deceive or cheat; artifice; ruse; wile.

an optical illusion: It must have been some visual trick caused by the flickering candlelight.

'Tis niether of these, what it is doing "works", and it shows the facinating relationship between geometry, and the HOW arbituary concepts in maths can can be expressed in terms of shape and their relationships thereof.

I found that facinating, i'm amazed by something new EVERYDAY, in awe of life and i LOVE IT that way ....

Put away that cold wet sponge my fair lady

AoN

[edit on 6-6-2007 by Anomic of Nihilism]

It amazes me the replys she gives to so many post that I for one agree with the wet sponge...this is another example of bad answers to a good question
not magic at all.

Originally posted by Anomic of Nihilism
THIS is the way things should be taught in schools.

The method of long multiplication is taught in school because it is the easiest and quickest way to solve ALL multiplication problem that can be presented to you. Sure this graphic method works, and I admit it's a pretty cool shortcut to solve the examples provided. But what about a problem such as 98 X 977. I can use the "old" way to solve this problem and get the answer in about 30 seconds, or I can use the "shortcut" and spend about 5 or 6 minutes drawing a whole bunch of lines and counting up vertices -- I think I'll stick to the old way.

Having said that, I think this shortcut should be taught in school, but only after students have mastered the traditional method, and not as a replacement for the traditional method, but as a way to understand math better. Graphic representations such as this illustrate more accurately how math works in the real world. Face it, our system of numbers are just symbols created by man -- the symbol "8" would be meaningless to an uneducated person who has lived totally isolated from society (or an alien race), but "||||||||" can universally be understood as eight things. And the graphic multiplication solution of counting vertices in the original post DOES make a lot of sense when you begin to graphically think about a multiplication problem as, for example, "six objects multiplied four times" -- the number of times six lines intersect with four lines will be the answer...the answer obvious once you think of it that way.

But -- although it always works and is rather cool -- this "shortcut" is not a pratical method for all problems.

[edit on 6-6-2007 by Soylent Green Is People]

Double post -- sorry.

[edit on 6-6-2007 by Soylent Green Is People]

Originally posted by Anomic of Nihilism
Whilst i really DO admire your intellect there Byrd....

You do have this amazing way of making anything that might seem remotely inspirational to some, sound like a cold wet sponge

Your world can't be THAT "matter-of-fact" surely.

Its NOT magic, and its CERTAINLY not a trick....

Stage magic.. but you're right. I do confess to having only glanced at the video and saying "oh. That. yes, I've seen that."

Put away that cold wet sponge my fair lady

Dear sir, grab a sponge and come take a bath in the very INTERESTING world of "mental magic!" There are all sorts of tricks (techniques) that work VERY well that involve math and memorization. There's far more to math than you learn in your school courses -- and amusingly enough, much of it can be found in sharping, shilling, bar bets, and other "heads I win, tails you lose" type of practices. Some mathemeticians and statisticans study these (in fact, the study of probability began because some mathemeticians in the 1700's wanted to win at gambling games. But that's another story.)

Stage magicians (the ones called mentalists) have been making use of these "ever since Moses was a corporal" (as my dad would say.)

So come -- take a look! Here's a small handfull of them with some explainations of how they work:
home.att.net...

Here's a fun page (and not very detailed) on some quick tricks:
www.mind-reading-tricks.com...

Amaze your friends! Win bar bets!

[edit on 6-6-2007 by Byrd]

I confess to having the same reaction as Byrd...."Oh, didn't you know that?" I guess I see math so much day to day (still find it unpleasant) that I don't think about what you guys haven't seen yet that you might like.

Hm. If you liked "Vedic math" here's some stuff you might not have seen that you'd find interesting.

Ok. "Once upon a time" (if it was an Army story it would be "This ain't no s---") there was a guy named Jakow Trachtenberg. Jake was a Russian who fled to Germany after the revolution. Unfortunately, he didn't have the sense to keep going, and started getting mouthy about Hitler's political practices. So he got tossed in the jug for the duration of the war.

While he was in there, he discovered he needed a focus to keep from giving up. So, having no paper or pencil, and lots of time, he invented Trachtenberg Speed Math, which you can do in your head. It's a load of tricks similar to "Vedic math" but better. You can find it in various places online. If you learn and practice it, you'll be doing math like rainman.

Stay tuned next week, and we'll discuss "memory theatres", such as Grand and Hexagon. Did you know that there were real mentats once?

PS - another math goodie - Korean finger math "Chisen-bop"

[edit on 6-6-2007 by Tom Bedlam]

I dont know if Im doing anything wrong, but this method does not work with just any numbers. For example 549 x 367. It all doesnt add up.

I'm going to bed now, just thought i'd check in to see whats happening so this is only a short reply.

Can i just say first how pleased i am at the civility and pleasent, albeit 'small' discussion taking place.

Soylent Green:
I think this shortcut should be taught in school, but only after students have mastered the traditional method, and not as a replacement for the traditional method, but as a way to understand math better. Graphic representations such as this illustrate more accurately how math works in the real world.

Yes, this is my sentiment exactly. Im VERY intrested in sacred geometry, vibratory physics, wave mechanics, Cymatics and such...(interested..no high educational background...i'm getting there though ). Its the physical relationships being represented that i find helpful, and like you said...this would help kids, as visually stimulated as they are (the amount of TV they watch is a GOOD example ) would benifit from such visual cues
**********************************************
BYRD...

Tushae

I do enjoy your posts, you are quite the intellect and a very pleasent character
Whilst i find you are EXTREMELY left brained when it comes to topics "outside" the box of scientific 'dogma'...

..I would LOVE to know ALL that you know as you are quite a library ofg information, although i feel my 'interpretation' of you knowledge might be somewhat 'different' Thanx for the links

I shall look at them tomorrow
**************************************

Tom Bedlam:
I guess I see math so much day to day (still find it unpleasant) that I don't think about what you guys haven't seen yet that you might like

I've only really just started on my journey into the facinating would maths/physics. Eventually want to do Astro/quantum or Particle physics, whilst pulling apart the "nature of existence" along the way

thanx for the links, il shall look at them tomorrow.
**********************************************

_Phoenix_:
For example 549 x 367. It all doesnt add up.

Ill look at it tomorrow
Have you been carrying the digits to the "left" correctly?

Making sure that you are count the correct segments and the "arcs" are postioned correctly helps (not meaning to insult your intelligence by any means ) these are the areas i found easy to mess up?

Night night people

AoN

[edit on 6-6-2007 by Anomic of Nihilism]

[edit on 6-6-2007 by Anomic of Nihilism]

Subtract 487 from 1000 1000 - 487
9-4=5
9-8=1
LAST number,ALWAYS subtract from 10
10-7=3

This algorithm is flawed.

E.g

1000 - 500
9-5=4
9-0=9
10-0=10
= 4910