What to do when you just cant leave. (city Survival)

The title should actually be what to do if you just cant leave. I was reading threw Evacuation of cities And it got me thinking. What happens when you cant leave. Never mind the reason why there could be a bunch of things causing you to stay.

Water, Food, and shelter. Are three main ingredient's for survival. Baleave it or not an almost abandoned city can supply all three. One on a short term basis and two on a long term basis. So lets break them down.

WATER
For quite a while you will be able to get water in the big city even when the mains are down. The trick is gravity. Find the tallest building you can. Go to the ground floor or basement level. All the water sitting in the pipes on the upper floors will want to come down. so just find a sink on a lower level and turn it on. if the pipes have one way valves in them like a lot of newer building do well then this becomes a little harder but still doable. you just have to go floor by floor breaking in walls looking for the pipes. Your target is the big supply pipe with the one way valve on it. Your tool of choice is a sludge hammer. in the older buildings for smashing black pipe. if the pipe is copper you will need a pipe cutter. Pipe cutter are simple cheap tools.
If the pipes are more modern PVC a hack saw will do. The objective is to cut or break the pipe after the one way valve so any water trapped behind that valve will be released. Another good source is toilet tanks and well pressure tanks If your really luck your city has a artisans fountain. fountains inside malls are another good source just don't forget to treat it before drinking it.

FOOD
Abandoned or almost abandoned city's off vast amounts of food. It may not be attractive food but any food is good when your starving. The back rooms of stores are a good place to start looking. the shelves will probably be bare in the shopping area but panicked people aren't always rational so my bet is you will still be able to find food in the back or ware house area. When all those areas are barren well then you have to fall back on your hunting instinct. being a pet owner I find this distasteful but in survival its us or them. people abandoned cats and dogs when the attempt to flee. many will be starving so they will be slow and easy to catch.. if it helps think of it as doing a mercy killing. Your showing them mercy by ending there suffering and showing yourself mercy by feeding your self. When that food source gets scarce there is and always will be rodents. yes thats right rats and mice. hay there meat people. Another thing I should mention is vitamins. nobody who is raiding a store for food to survive is going to stop at the vitamin isle. bad for them good for you. the food stocks of city's is going to be primarily meat, leaving a big hole in your nutrition. thats what the vitamins are for. don't forget insects, they are a wonderful source. Some of them can be down right tasty. A source of cooking and heating is peoples abandoned gas grills, so don't forget to cook that meat.

SHELTER

This ones kinda a no brainer. there is so many places to hide in a city. take your pick. I personally would pick a small dumpy looking house in the resident area of the city. any survivors like you that are left behind will most likely look to the big rich houses and leave the dumpy little places alone. little places are better because they can be heated easily and they are unattractive to human vulture. if you use the abandoned grill idea for the heating don't forget to have plenty of circulation. it would suck to survive a cataclysm only to die of asphyxiation. there should not be a shortage of tanks for quite some time. almost every gas station in America has refills. just use a hack saw and you have gas for months out of just one caged refill station. most stations Ive seen have two of these cages minimum. Most hold 9 tanks. that will keep your belly happy and family warm for quite some time.

Remember those who THINK Survive.

I've often thought about this... I live in a small city in an 1889 brick Queen Anne with an old well in the basement. It has a wooden false floor about 3 feet down that makes a hollow sound when banged. I'm tempted to pull it up and see how far down it goes and if it's all dried up. It'd make a great bunker depending on it's dimensions (dig it out a bit? VS cave-in ) or at least an emergency food/gear stash. I always planned to bug-out to the countryside, but with a family now it'd probably be more dangerous to split than dig in at home.

btw good tips



sp

[edit on 30-5-2007 by Stale Cracker]

Good thinking Angry. You are right in that moving about will always have more risk than remaining in an area that you know. And cities do have resources.

Another idea is to raid a drug store. Obtain a good supply of first aid items. Drug users will have beat you to the place for sure, and extreme caution needs to be used in even approaching one, as they will be the haunt of these types for some time.

The initial things drug users will take are not really high priority for a survivalist. Make a list of meds that your group uses regularly, plus an extensive one of first aid. Don't forget about the fact that one of your group might need some longer term care at some point. ( An example of longer term needs might be items that would include antibiotics, wound dressings for burns, etc..making a list of possible needs could be a priority, to minimize the time spent looking.)

You have made some very good points here. My only reason for leaving the city is to avoid the confrontation, chaos, violence and possible disease that would follow sit.X. Of course it could be possible to survive the way you described. I like the idea of the vitamins.Good point there.I don't think I could bring myself to eat a pet or a rat, but in that type of environment I may change my mind. Great thread and good ideas.Keep em coming!

The one adversary that would be a threat in a built up environment is not human, but canine.

Given the number of dog-owners in a particular district who would rather turf-out Poochie than feed with dwindling rations, packs of hungry dogs would present a larger threat than humans

Any tips on how to survive a dog-pack encounter??

NGC2736- good point about the drug store and first aid supplies.That however would be something to start stocking up on now. Bandages never go out of date. You may have to wait awhile before buying ointments and such as they expire.

Dealing with dog packs is tuff. The main idea is to become alpha. In order to become alpha you have to take out the alpha and then whip beta into line. then the rest of the pack will follow you. But if your not into wrestling half wild starved dogs try one of those compressed air siren It scares the snot out of most animals but it is also a very quick way to tell the rest of the survivors in the city "hay I'm here". Of course a shot gun blast to the alpha is a very sad but safe way to scare the pack away. I will keep adding as I think of stuff. I actually had training in urban survival in the military thats ware a lot of this information is coming from.

Originally posted by citizen smith
The one adversary that would be a threat in a built up environment is not human, but canine.

Given the number of dog-owners in a particular district who would rather turf-out Poochie than feed with dwindling rations, packs of hungry dogs would present a larger threat than humans

Any tips on how to survive a dog-pack encounter??

CS gas and a big spade.

Originally posted by AccessDenied
You have made some very good points here. My only reason for leaving the city is to avoid the confrontation, chaos, violence and possible disease that would follow sit.X. Of course it could be possible to survive the way you described. I like the idea of the vitamins.Good point there.I don't think I could bring myself to eat a pet or a rat, but in that type of environment I may change my mind. Great thread and good ideas.Keep em coming!

Don't get me wrong In my mind the best thing to do is to vecate the City. however in an imperfect world its not always possible.

I'm going to drew up a heating system I designed for a gas grill or Colman stove to make it safe yet functional. I will try to post it by tomorrow.

I’m constantly telling my sister who lives in the middle of Las Angeles that it might be a good idea to think about moving from there. But as far as survival goes in a city yeah it could be done and one would be well supplied I’m sure. But there’s always the human factor, brother competing with sisters, neighbors shooting neighbors over can goods. Its would be a nightmare even more then the actual catastrophic event.

As for the dogs, um try becoming an alpha male with a pack a wolves you may fare better. That would be the last place I’d want to be in a disaster. I’m not to fare from Vegas but the dam things is you got the city and you got the desert tough choice. But then there the lake and rivers which would probably become polluted. So if your in a city and something happen get ready for war. If you seen that show Jerrico not even the small towns are safe, shish!

I cannot remember which thread it was posted in or the member who posted it but the words stuck in my head -" It is better to be out in the bush where you can shoot your own food, rather than be in the city where people will shoot each other over a cookie".It is that statement that drives my decisions.Eagle, try harder to convince your sister,as Vegas IMHO would be a terrible place to be during sitX.

Great post, especially needed if you're like me and wondering about everyone in the more populated areas of the world. I would have never thought the whole house scenario honestly, and taking refuge in a small dingy house is probably the best advice for this situation, not to mention the vitamin idea too.

I feel like such a sheep when I say this, but I am honestly very worried about what might happen in a few short years, as crazy as some of the theories seem.

Of course it's not foolish to prepare for something. Even if nothing happens, at least I have some decent just in case skills.

Luckily my family is moving to a very small village next to the Canadian/Montana rockies and if needed they can easily seek refuge and get away fast. I'll still however, be in the city for university. So this thread applies nicely things of my interest.

Well, Obviously escape would be preferred... But onto the task of staying on topic. If I were not able to escape the city and was forced to wait things out, there are several things I would do. The first would be to dig in and fortify. Board up windows, barricade doors and make it appear as if nobody was there. Move my family into the basement where we would end up living 24/7 until the opportunity to escape was presented. I have plenty of weapons, ammunition, water and food to last the three of us for about 2 to 3 months. I might even consider an alliance with a neighbor or two - consolidate rations, weapons, first aid material etc... There IS safety in numbers.

Beyond that, there isn't much you can do except to remain vigilant and focused.

Scrounging around in a half-abandoned city doesn't present nearly as big an obstacle as trying to tough it out in a fully populated one. I think the greatest problem is surviving the certain chaos that will befall cities when essentials start to run out. In any high population density area (whether it's a city or a densely populated suburban area) the demand for essentials is going to be high per unit area. That means any inventories are going to be depleted quickly. In addition, because there are so many people in a relatively small area hoarding, panic and looting will spread much faster.

If people are able to start moving out of the area that will work to your advantage if you are staying (for whatever reason). Just remember, there will almost always be people staying behind to protect their belongings and businesses as well as other scavangers. Staying behind makes you equal parts urban survivalist and prey.

Another danger that would need to be thought about ahead of time is fire. In an urban area without firefighters, as might well be the case under an all out evacuation, fires would go unchecked.

Even a group/family choosing to remain behind would have to have an exit strategy just in case something like looting and arson caused their are to become less than viable.

Although it's not a very good choice to live in a metro area for reasons we all are thinking there are still plenty of smart people. This being said, the OP is right about everything except that there will be many, many people thinking like you and if you don't move fast I would venture to say that you'll be SOL.

After the initial panic all the logical people will swoop in and do all those things the OP mentioned and believe me there will be more of these types than you think.

I also believe there will be thousands that stay put unless they are killed by whatever happened. In that case you are most likely dead as well.

Finally, once you decide to go out looking for stuff how are you going to carry it all? Especially stuff like multiple LP tanks. IMO, stock up now and replace things every so often based on expiration. Then when the time comes grab what you can carry on your back and vacate the city on foot if necessary.

The population of the city I live in is forty some odd thousand. Now imagine several EMP's are detonated over the country and the electrical grid is not only down, it will be down for weeks, possibly months. (Hell, a solar flare could do the same thing.)

I'm now in a town of forty thousand with no running water, no electricity and no incoming food. All hell is going to break loose.

Probably 90% of the population is not prepared for such an event. It will degenerate quickly into survival of the fittest.

I have my bob and other supplies and I can make it out of town at the first sign that this will be more than a routine power outage. Remaining in a large population during the first few days or weeks of situation X will probably mean either kill or die.

Besides, I live right by the Ozark National forest. I can hide in there for days or weeks and never meet another person.

I figure after a week or two an organization of soup kitchens and order will have been put in place.

That first week or two will be pure hell though.

Just my thoughts on it,

as drastic as it sounds, the sooner the dust settles, the better, even if a cataclysm of violence drove off the vast majority, leaving at least some supplies intact for you, there's still the problem that next to nothing is renewable in a city, not even rats.

they would all starve and come out of the closet, so to speak, creating lots of problems on their own, and most importantly, competing for food. then you have to factor in diseases, which would undoubtedly erupt, because the city would in all likelyhood be littered with bodies, imagine trillions of fat flies and maggots everywhere, corpses stinking like nothing you ever experienced before, unless TEOTWAWKI happens during the cold season (only in the temperate regions of course) which is imho, preferrable, as long as you have sufficient fuel stocks. i wouldn't count on full gas tanks either, what can't be taken away or used would probably be spilled anyway.

one question: how long would you intend to stay if it worked and where's the advantage if you have to leave, eventually, anyway?

PS: i'm not trying to be overly critical of the idea, anti-cyclic patterns are potentially rewarding, i'd just like to know how and why you actually got the idea, based on which merits?

Good tips AA the thing about water in tall buildings was new to me. But CS I may be wrong but I doubt domestic dogs would form packs with others. Just my 2cents.

Originally posted by angryamerican
Dealing with dog packs is tuff. The main idea is to become alpha. In order to become alpha you have to take out the alpha and then whip beta into line. then the rest of the pack will follow you. But if your not into wrestling half wild starved dogs try one of those compressed air siren It scares the snot out of most animals but it is also a very quick way to tell the rest of the survivors in the city "hay I'm here". Of course a shot gun blast to the alpha is a very sad but safe way to scare the pack away. I will keep adding as I think of stuff. I actually had training in urban survival in the military thats ware a lot of this information is coming from.

Yup, Taking out the alpha is the key to tackling a pack of dogs. With alpha out of the way the beta and the rest of the pack will high tail it out of there until they can figure out who the next alpha is. It all depends on how hungry they are. your best bet is to get as many dogs together as you can and eat them. the old "food on the hoof" or pad,as it is. Eat a dog every other day,throw scraps to the other dogs and keep befriending new ones. Sounds terrible but you would be surprised what you will do in a hardcore situation.
For a good look at what to do during a Sit X in the city study up on the siege of Stalingrad during WWII. People had made bread from saw dust and were cooking it in motor oil. Dog would have been like File mignon and lobster.