FDA seeks antidepressant suicide warning

jon1

Bless your heart. Yes, go for it. Take that vacation and just relax.

Originally posted by Shar
I have done all the research I need on depression. There is nothing I don't know about it.

Really? You might want to tell scientists who study these things; they would be glad to have more information as they just don't have that much information on depression. That's a rather arrogant statement, dont you think? Have you ever had serious depression?

BTW, where do you get your statistics about 18 y.o. killing themselves due to abuse? That's simply not true. Suicide rate is probably the highest among adolescent gays and lesbians. They may or may not ahve been abused but the reason for killing themselves is that they can't handle being homosexual due to how society in general talks about it.

Also, ALL depression is caused by chemical imbalances. That's why it's called depression rather than just plain unhappiness or laziness or anything else.
Shar, your statements feel to me as though you think it's the person's fault for having depression. Truthfully, it just isn't that way. Depression is like any other illness, cancer, etc. I didn't askf or this, I don't want it, but still it's there unless I get medical treatment for it.
For someone who says they knkow everything there is to know about anti-depressants, you sure don't seem to know much about depression. It seems to me that you ahve an agenda.

Suicide is a SYMPTOM of depression and I think that is the only reason why someone would be suicidal, they are depressed. It's not a normal change in mood, if you are depressed, you are ALWAYS in a state of depression. You may not know it, because you have never known what it's like to feel like a normal person, but the depression is always there, just like cancer. It may be worse at some times and better at others, but it's still there and affects every aspect of your life in many negative ways; not the least of which is that most people who have never had it, just don't understand it and want to blame the victim.
There are many, many people who have been helped and continue to be helped with anti-depressants. I'm one and i've known many otehrs.
I'm not saying taht with mild depression you might be able to treat it with diet, etc. but I'm talking major depression - that's where the anti-depressants are necessary.
I don't think there are scores of people on anti-depressants who don't need them; I think there are scores of people with depression, period. Why wouldn't there be with the way this world is going and with all the preservatives, chemicals, etc. added to our environment.

forestlady

How dare you say I think it’s the person’s fault.

I never, ever said that. I would never will because its not.

Yes depression is also caused by abuse. People who have been abuse all their life will suffer depression and there’s no pill in the world that’s going to cure that.

The only thing that is going to help them is to somehow find a way in this world to be happy and let go of what is hurting them.

If people who has been abuse and seeking medicine for depression you would find that the percentage is very high.

Abuse is rampant in our country. There is physical, sexual, verbal, spiritual, mental abuse going on all the time. These people are hurting and are depressed because they can’t find a way to deal with what they are or have gone through. However, no pill is going to help them get their mind clear and understand why they were abused.

Yes abuse causes people to get depressed.

Oh yeah, people who has been abused also has a very high rate of suicide.

However, again it’s not their fault. It’s the stupid weak minded person who did the abuse. If the abuse person could find a way to deal and get through it they will be ok. It’s not easy to do however, and for the most part will take their whole entire life. Because of what some idiot person did to them.

[edit on 3-5-2007 by Shar]

In my experience, doctors are loathe to just hand out tablets for depression. I had to see a specialist counsellor before any chemical treatment was prescribed, so I agree that they are not "handed out like sweets".

My depression was so severe at the time that I was hospitalized. I have now thankfully come through this, but still live with the disease to one extent or another.

To imply (as shar has done) that there are different types of depression is wrong - there are only varying degrees, with varying symptoms, as you have stated.

It must also be said that there is a stigma attached to mental illness, and that because the signs are not as visible as other diseases that it is less of a disease, or that it is somehow the persons fault. This is simply not true.

budski

So your saying that people who are abused don’t count. They don’t have depression. I know your wrong.

Originally posted by Shar

budski

So your saying that people who are abused don’t count. They don’t have depression. I know your wrong.

Nope
that's NOT what I said, please try to read what I write rather than what you think I mean.

Are you saying that every person who has been abused suffers depression as a result? Because I KNOW this is wrong.

Abuse may be a contributory factor, but there are many other factors as well, some of which are;
genetic
the result of injury or other illness
use of recreational drugs
natural predisposition.

You seem to be focusing on abuse victims, and not ALL victims become depressed. Yes some do, but many don't.

Once again - depression is a disease (not unhappiness or being a bit cheesed off). It is a proven, clinical disease which has acute and chronic symptoms, and has many causes, of which abuse is only one.

Originally posted by Shar

budski

So your saying that people who are abused don’t count. They don’t have depression. I know your wrong.

I didn't get the impression that is what Budski is saying; in fact, he said nothing about abused people not counting or not having depression. This can be a cause, but your info about adolescent suicides and abuse is not accurate iMHO; unless you can provide evidence to the contrary, which I would sincerely like to see.

Methinks you are grasping at straws instead of either changing your opinion or providing links to support your claims. Until you do, yours is just another layperson's mostly uninformed opinion. You're certainly entitled to it, but it doesn't make it fact, just an opinion. I got my opinion from reading the DSM-IV and scientific books and articles and working with depressed people for 15 years, plus my own experience. I have never come across any expert or anyone who actually has depression who would agree wtih you - which makes me wonder what your sources of info are?

I don't mean to be harsh with you, truly. It's just that I have dealt with other people's erroneous ideas about depression for so long. Any time I hear someone saying anti-depressants are bad for everyone and no one should take them, I know that that kind of statement will keep some people from seeking help. They will never understand that it isn't their fault; if they just keep trying hard enough they can overcome their depression with positive thinking. It just ain't so, would that it were.

Budski,

To imply (as shar has done) that there are different types of depression is wrong - there are only varying degrees, with varying symptoms, as you have stated.

You need to go back and reread everyone of my statements. I didn’t say it wasn’t a disease. I did say there is clinical depression.

I did say there is mental illnesses.

However, I’m also saying that doctors before the prescribe a medicine they need to find out if it’s really depression as in clinical or an imbalance.

Or is it from abuse. Or is it because they are just confused about their life because they are young.

Not everyone out there who is given medicine should get it.

The doctors tend to hand it out just because the person is hurting. Like I have stated and it isn’t going to help them. These are the kind of people whose going to have to find happiness another way and forget about their weak-minded, childish, rude abuser.

No it’s not the victims fault. No it’s not an imbalance persons fault as well.

Depression is very real. It can make people try and often succeed at killing themselves.

So can abuse make these people try and kill themselves. As it’s their only way out. I think doctors get it confused. I don’t think they, think, a person can be depressed from abuse. Yes they can.


[edit on 3-5-2007 by Shar]

Forestlady

Methinks you are grasping at straws instead of either changing your opinion or providing links to support your claims.

Grasping at straws in what.

That abuse people can’t suffer depression. Your crazy if you believe that.

I have read your statements.
But the fact is that you are trying to argue a point that you seem to have no real conception of.

I know for a fact that pills are not just handed out like candy in the UK. You first visit the GP who then refers you to a specialist counsellor, who then refers you back to the GP if tablets need to be prescribed.
Since many medical procedures in the UK originate in the US, I would be surprised if the procedure there was not similar.

There are also health checks given to patients who have pre-existing conditions in order to ascertain if some types of treatment are contra indicated.

It seems that you are pushing very hard at the abuse angle, and again, this may contribute, but there are many other factors.

Myself and my 2 siblings were abused as children. I developed depression in my teens (and am now nearly 40), and they have had no depressive symptoms at all. Ever. One of my siblings is 2 years older (and suffered greater abuse) the other is 3 years younger (and suffered less abuse)

Abuse was not a contributory factor in my case, I had a genetic predisposition that they avoided.

You are putting words in my mouth and in Budski's. Neither of us said abuse can't cause depression. I know that it does. Abuse can create chemcial imbalances in the brain and often it is irreversible.

That's what I mean by grasping at straws, you're trying to put words into people's mouth that they never said and don't even believe.
I notice you haven't refuted or addressed anything I actually said.
What are your qualifications for knowing "everything about depression?" Are you a professional scientist, psychologist, psychiatrist or neurologist? Have you ever had depression? Is there anything that would give us reason to believe you know what you're talking about?

Originally posted by Shar

Forestlady

Methinks you are grasping at straws instead of either changing your opinion or providing links to support your claims.

Grasping at straws in what.

That abuse people can’t suffer depression. Your crazy if you believe that.

I know nothing about depression, but plenty about pain. I have an incurable chronic pain condition, and without Seroxat and Duloxetine (antidepressants) I would be dead. Initially I was prescribed Seroxat because I made the mistake of mentioning to a doctor that I had been looking for a non-messy form of suicid that doesn't take much effort. The next thing you know Seroxat was added to the long list of medication I was on. It had a slight effect, which was noticeable in that I was wishing for death less. I must point out that at that time both my parents were still alive(only Dad left), and there was no way I was going to let my parents outlive me, even though they both understood that my life is not much of a life. The doctors knew I felt this way too, so they were trying to help me, rather than being concerned about their figures or targets. I actually saw a psychiatrist (in order to get more Seroxat), and he talked to me and concluded that I hadn't a trace of mental illness, and that he would feel like topping himself if he was in agony all the time. It was a natural response to my circumstances. Contrary to what Shar simplistically states, Doctors don't dish out pills unless they are pretty sure that a chemical imbalance IS to blame. Not good ones anyway.

The psychiatrist changed my antidepressant to one (duloxetine) which is also used to treat neuropathic pain (pain that arises in the sympathetic nervous system) and I have noticed an improvement.

To say that people with depression should just buck their ideas up is, I imagine, vastly insulting to anyone who suffers it. I know that I could cheerfully pummel to death with my zimmer frame anybody who tells me my pain is: "all in the mind".

[edit on 3-5-2007 by Karilla]

I was in the 11th grade when one of my best friends killed herself. She killed herself by car fumes in the garage. She did this because her dad sexually abused her.

She didn’t see anyway out. She couldn’t find a way out. She didn’t see that one day she would be out of there and can be on her own and find a new life. So she killed herself.

I too have been through every abuse possible. There is nothing I didn’t experience at the hands of my so called dad. The meanest, nasty, rudest man I would ever know.

I got depressed starting at the age of 6. I wanted to kill myself. I wanted to run away. That only brought on more abuse. Today I am 39 years old. I live with what happen to me in my life. I deal with it. I don’t talk to him. I don’t like him. I have that right not to like him. I dare anyone to tell me different.

By the time I moved out at 18. I didn’t know what the heck to do. I hated life and everyone and everything in it. Every man I saw I called a “Pr--K” and every woman a “bit--”. Were they. NO> But to me I hated everything so yes they were. When I say I hated everything I mean I hated everything.

This can only go one direction. That’s right death. That’s all I wanted. I didn’t want this life I had been given. I hated it. No one understood what I had been through and no one cared.

I guess I made it to 19 when I had enough. So alone and without telling a soul. First thing I did was get on my knees and told God, “I’m going to die now. Forgive me for what I am going to do. But, this life is not for me. So I am coming home.” I talked to God for a while and then I did it. I took a bottle of pills and downed it with alcohol and I don’t drink. But, I was determined to die. No one was going to stop me.

I did get stopped because I’m sitting here typing to you, 20 years later. A husband and 3 kids later.

How did I live. Well on that night the phone rang and I answer it. Couldn’t talk though. I passed out before I got a word out. It just made me move a little. 2nd thing a loud annoying knock at my door. I stubble to the door to find my boss. I had accidentally took the safe keys home with me. (I was in charge of counting all money and locking up.)
He thought I was drunk and didn’t say anything. I gave him the keys and he left. I was pissed I was still alive. So I drank some more. I’m suppose to be dead. Then a guy I was dating whose now my husband came by. Saw me and the empty pill bottle and empty alcohol bottle and carried me to his car and to the hospital.

The doctor told him I should of already been dead. He didn’t know how I lived. Neither did I. I was pissed to say the least.

I should of died. I hated life. I hated everything. Yes, it was because I suffered abuse at the hands of my dad. He pointed guns at me and my brother and sister more times than I can count. He beat us non stop. I have talked about it in this thread here.


www.belowtopsecret.com...'

Can you believe they wanted to put me on medicine. I was in the hospital for a month. Because, I wanted to die. Once, the doctor found out it was abuse I was going through he did not put me on medicine.

However, later in life I thought I would talk about my problems to a doctor. A psychologist first thing he did was try and give me medicine. What a joke. The doctors at the hospital already said I didn’t need that. They said get away from your dad.

I did. I got away. I don’t talk to him unless I have to cause of mom.

So my experience and my brother and sister who also suffers. My best friend who killed herself and another friend who also tried to kill herself because she was raped by a friend of the family, tells me a lot. Abused people suffer with depression. Pills is not going to help us. Only realizing that you can change your life and way of thinking.


You can get out of it. You don’t have to let it destroy the rest of your life just because someone was messed up in their head. This feels good to talk.





[edit on 3-5-2007 by Shar]

Originally posted by FalseParadigm
The fact is many people are lazy, and they want a pill, they want a quick fix. and the pharmacutacul companies are only too willing to provide it.

As somebody who suffered quite heavily from depression at a point and time, I can agree with this statement. Most doctors were all too eager to shove a prescription in my hand and send me on my merry way. I did find however that after taking these pills I 'thought' I was feeling better. I mean, my mood was much more stable, but at the cost of heavy insomnia and extreme fluctuations of weight. The two later symptoms made me feel even worse. Sure my depression was weakening, but I now had two other bothersome detrimental problems at hand. I strongly believe in natural and organic everything, so I soon set out to find something that didn't require chemical drugs in my body. For me it was a healthy diet (goodbye sugar), sleep schedule, and LOTS of sunlight and activity.

If I did my research in the beginning instead of looking for a quick fix. i could have saved myself much time and heartache in the end.

This whole pills that are supposed to make you feel better, but for some reason make you want to die thing just boggles my mind.

Of course i should add, that my way of going about this probably is not for all sufferers.

I will say this.
In the USA, there is an alarming trend for doctors to simply fill a prescription. Too often they are given to make the patient happy.
One of the thing we are seeing because of the Doctor Feel Good Syndrom is antibiotic resistant bacteria. I remember a friend who had a fridge full of the "bubble gum" stuff when her kids had common colds, like it was going to help.
The high rate of antibacterial resistant ear infections is partially the result of these unnecessary prescritions.
Another example is the consumer directed advertisments for certain medications. It has been shown that with the increased poliferation of these ads, those particular medications are indeed prescibed more often, whether or not they worked as well or better than medications currently on the market that are not advertised.
People see the ads and go to their doctor, and say Doc, I want this pill, and there are too many doctor that will write those prescriptions, even if another medication is indicated, or would be better for them.
Then there are those who develop an addiction to medications, and have doctors that prescibe them on demand. The tragic death of Anna Nichole illustrates this.
There are the parents that drug their kids in order to collect SSI for them, or because they just don't want to deal with normal adolescent highjinks. My kid has ADHD, they say. And the doctor writes them a prescription.
OK, maybe it is not as easy as that, but the little girl who was killed by her parents feeding her unnescessary anti psychotic medicines prescribed by a dopctor on demand by the parents, shows that it does happen.
My daughter has intermittant explosive hysteria as well as opositional defiance disorder. For three years, we have been going through therapy, behaviour modifacation, we have run the gammut of services available for her both in school, and at home.
Last year, out of desperation, when behaviour modifaction was showing no improvement, I allowed the doctors to prescibe her medications. After trying a few, we finally found one that works, and my daughter is a happier child now than she has been for many years.
But I only turned to medication as a last resort. Many parents ask pills as a first resort.
And many doctors use medication as a first resort when it comes to depression.
There is no way that a doctor, no matter what his/her level of experience can know if you need medication in a 15 minute conversation.
And yet, I have had doctors do just that.
Yes, maybe I do need medication, but I would like the doctor to use his/her degree in the psychiatric field to determine if using their medical liscense to give me a piece of paper for pills is needed. And I have not yet found one, so I do not fill those presciptions.
I thank the doctor, and I am on my way, and I never see the doctor again, but for once. I went online, and found out what symptoms were counterindicated for that particular medication, and followed through with a med check appoinment.
I told the doctor I was having these symptoms, and the doctor did or said nothing, and wrote me another prescription for the same medication.
This kind of thing happens all the time across the US., and is a growing problem.
This is especially alarming when it comes to medicating our children. As far as I know, there is only one drug FDA approved for depression in children. It has been known that other meds, (and forgive me for not being able to be more specific, the names escape me at this time), are NOT indicated for children, because of potential side effects.
That does not stop the "off lable" poliferation of these meds being prescribed for children, who then have a higher incidence of homicidal and/or suicidal thoughts.
And depression is depression, no matter what the reason. Mine is "chemical" in that it is not caused by any outside factors. But that doesn't mean that I am more justified for taking pills than someone whose depression is caused by losing their job, or the death of a loved one.
The indication for medication depends on the severity of the depression and whether therapy can help to alleviate it without the use of medication. People who have lost their jobs commit suicide. People who have lost loved ones also are known to kill themselves. Some people learn to deal with it, some people can't for whatever reason.
It is up to a doctor to make a careful determination that medication is needed, or if maybe continued therapy would serve that person best. Giving out pills like candy at halloween helps no one but the companies that make them, in the long run.

Originally posted by Shar
Abused people suffer with depression. Pills is not going to help us. Only realizing that you can change your life and way of thinking.

You can get out of it. You don’t have to let it destroy the rest of your life just because someone was messed up in their head. This feels good to talk.[edit on 3-5-2007 by Shar]

OK, that tears it. These statements are simply NOT true and I find them really insulting and very judgmental. Don't you think that if we depressives could become happy we would do everything we could think of to overcome it? You assume that the rest of us are either too stupid or too lazy to "cure ourselves".

Your statements tell me quite clearly that you don't think it's a medical condition because you can just "pick yourself up and go on", at least that's what you say. You're judging all depressives by only your own experience and you refuse to take in any new information from those on this thread. It is hubris for you to think that you know more than any of us - your statements quite clearly show that you don't know what you're talking about.

Just because you had one type of experience doesn't mean that everyone else can deal with their depression - it all depends on the severity of it.
IF you were able to overcome depression (you didn't actually say that you did) I have to believe that it wasn't major depression. Getting psychological help can help a person to understand and heal from their abuse, but for many of us, our brain chemistry has been permanently altered. I have been talking about major depression. You don't seem to understand that there is a difference between major and mild depression and there is a world of difference. Personally, I consider it quite irresponsible that the doctor didn't give you some kind of medication if you were so depressed that you had to be hospitalized.

I tried EVERYTHING to cure my depression before I went on anti-depressants and nothing worked. There are many people who are so depressed that not even the anti-depressants work.

If someone reads your opinions and believes you, they will keep blaming themselves for not being able to "get over it". They will become more depressed, be afraid to seek help and may commit suicide. For that reason, your statements are simply irresponsible and downright ignorant. Hope you can live with the possibility of your statements causing someone to not get help. I know I couldn't.

I used to be able to deal with my (mild) depression by a combination of work, exercise, diet and social activity.

Then I had an accident and could no longer use these methods. The consequence of this was that my depression "spiralled" out of control.

When the depression was mild, I could deal with it - not easily, but I could manage.

When the depression was at it's worst, I hardly knew who I was, let alone be able to help myself.

The effects of depression are often misunderstood.

If the depression was so deep that hospital was a requirement, I cannot believe that the person would be in any mental condition to "help themselves" no matter how many talks they had with a psychiatrist.

This is a very touchy subject. Before anyone freaks out, I too believe meds are passed out too easily, and it's not just anti-depressants. Can't sleep? Take a pill. Heartburn? Take a pill. What gets Me now are the ads on tv that promote all of these drugs. I will say that it's very hard for ANYONE to understand the debilitating disease of depression unless They've experienced it firsthand. I'm not talking about getting down every now and then. I don't mean the normal ups and downs of life. Depression is an illness that a good diet, excercise and fresh air will not cure. Even if they did work you'd have to care about doing it in the first place. Depression isn't just being sad. God, how it hurts, mentally, physically and emotionally. It hurts everyone involved, but the torture that someone with depression goes through is unimaginable. For someone with depression removing a person in Your life isn't going to fix You. Sometimes what's causing the depression is ingrained upon Your psyche during the formative yrs. A positive outlook is difficult to have if you've never experienced it. I remember My mother telling Me and My brothers "Don't ever expect much out of life, that way You'll never be disappointed". Depression just doesn't pass, it's a process, it has to be cured. Medication is a temporary fix until You can work thru Your malfunctions, assuming it's not going to be a lifetime struggle. Depressed people usually have a deep sense of guilt or shame for 1 reason or another that adds to the condition. Being on meds can add to that shame, especially if depression is looked upon lightly. You can't eat Your way, excercise your way or think Your way out of it. Reading everything on the subject can only give You a very vague idea of the matter but no real experience. Again, You can't full understand unless You've lived it.

Peace. K*

What kind of medicine could he give me. I was abused. I had to learn how to cope with it.

I had to get him out of my life. Out of my heart, soul, mind.

Medicine is for those whose brain is chemically messed up.

Medicine is not for someone who just hates life because they been abused. Some people might have been abused and also have a chemical imbalance. Then yes by all means they need medicine to help with it.

But, again not every person out there needs the medicine.

I HAVE NOT SAID EVERYONE. I said some people don’t need it. So your putting words in my mouth.

Yes I had major depression. Think about it. At the age of 6 I wanted to die. Not too many 6 year olds wants to die. Not too many 6 years old wants to run away. Not too many unless there is a major problem. At 18 I pointed a loaded gun to my head. Chicken out. Between 18 and 19 when I actually did try. I had several thoughts and almost attempts, that no one caught. 19 when I did it. I told no one. I wanted to die. I hated life. I hated life cause I had been severely abused. I couldn’t deal with it. I couldn’t get over it. I didn’t know what to do. So I tried to kill my self too get over the H*** I was living in. My tunnel was so dark. There was never a light.

There was a major problem. Cause I had never talked about it, it caused me to want to kill myself.

After, I started talking about it and letting it all out, it feels good. I know longer cry when I talk about it.

I no longer let him rob me of another day. I deserve to be happy. He’s not taking that away from my any longer.

I no longer think of death. I love life today. I love my kids and husband. I am glad I made it. It wasn’t easy. As I stated in my other thread, my sister and brother isn’t coping with it very well. My sister is the worse. I worry about her. She’s older by 2 years. She is on medicine. I don’t think it’s helping her.

She won’t let me talk to her about our life. She won’t acknowledge what happen. She won’t talk about it. She still hasn’t talked about it. That’s what’s wrong with her. I started talking about it years ago. She never has. She’s not going to make it if she don’t scream this out.