Where do you think the Iranians will drop their bomb?

Originally posted by DJMessiah
He did? Would you like to show us his quote?

Certainly

"They have invented a myth that Jews were massacred and place this above God, religions and the prophets," Ahmadinejad said in a speech to thousands of people in the Iranian city of Zahedan, according to a report on Wednesday from Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting.

Link

Originally posted by DJMessiah
Shuma mefamee cherakam Farsi gap bizan'eeh, yah keh chee maguyum? If you don't understand what I just said, then how do you know what he really said? The "wipe off the map" comment was intentionally misinterpreted by MEMRI, a pro-Israeli propoganda website.

Don't give me that. What ever way its translated the basic premise remains.

as translated by Juan Cole

Just as the Soviet Union was wiped out and today does not exist, so will the Zionist regime soon be wiped out."

as translated by MEMRI

The Imam said that this regime occupying Jerusalem (een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods) must [vanish from] the page of time (bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad).

as reported by the NY Times

Our dear Imam (referring to Ayatollah Khomeini) said that the occupying regime must be wiped off the map and this was a very wise statement. We cannot compromise over the issue of Palestine. Is it possible to create a new front in the heart of an old front. This would be a defeat and whoever accepts the legitimacy of this regime has in fact, signed the defeat of the Islamic world. Our dear Imam targeted the heart of the world oppressor in his struggle, meaning the occupying regime. I have no doubt that the new wave that has started in Palestine, and we witness it in the Islamic world too, will eliminate this disgraceful stain from the Islamic world. But we must be aware of tricks.

as reported by German media

"The fact is that Israel can ultimately not continue its existence,"

Originally posted by DJMessiah
Israel wont even allow Iran to have nuclear power plants to power their country.

Iran has a number of nuclear facilities.

Iranian nuclear facilities

Originally posted by DJMessiah
Or maybe Israel is spreading their propoganda to make Jews think the world is against them, so they think that the only safe place for them is in Israel.

Oh yeah the old Jews control the media arguement, like Rupert Murdock, Ted Turner etc. etc.

Originally posted by DJMessiah
Look into your history and you will see that Israel always was behind the first attack, or led to some kind of provocation to start a war. Don't think the Israeli government is so innocent. I would advise you to research the USS Liberty attack.

There is a big difference between an unprovoked attack and a preemptove attack. In 67 is was provoked, in 73 they were surprised. Only in the Suez crisis of 56 which was instigated by Britain and France can Israel be labeled as the aggressor. And the USS Liberty tragedy was just that tragic every war has cases of fratracide and other mistakes.

Originally posted by DJMessiah
Of course not. Time and time again, Israel has shown itself to be arrogant and not follow UN rules. Israel wants everything their own way.

Just as Hezbollah has refused to disarm and Iran ignores the UN regarding its hidden nuclear program.

Originally posted by DJMessiah
Which means Iran shouldn't be worried?

Oh no they should be worried. But they would easily be able to relax if someone would shut Ahmadinejad's mouth.

The Iranian PM never said he wanted Israel "wiped off the map", that quote should be old news by now, even the guys who misinterpreted what he said corrected themselves a long time ago, however the deliberate misquote is still being used. He called for a regime change in Israel, which is totally different to calling for Israel to be wiped off the map. Don't believe everything report and every quote in the media.

Okay what did he say then? Do you have an exact translation? One of the problems about translating between languages is that often an exact translation isn't possible. So we have to look at the larger meaning, and I have no doubt about the meaning of his statements are regarding Israel(however they are interpreted).

Originally posted by danwild6
Okay what did he say then? Do you have an exact translation? One of the problems about translating between languages is that often an exact translation isn't possible. So we have to look at the larger meaning, and I have no doubt about the meaning of his statements are regarding Israel(however they are interpreted).

That is ridiculous, you ask for an exact translation, and before you even hear it you have already declared you know his realt meaning was, despite that even the guy who first reported it has since admitted that he got it wrong and he misinterpreted it.

So how do you know what his real meaning was??? Did he tell you, did you hear him speak, did you interprete the quote, or did you simply read it in the media? In fact if the media writes it enough times then it must be true.

There isn't much point in you hearing the most correct translation as you have already decided, and you also have decided that any other translation other than the version you want to believe, must be incorrect. So the guy never said "wipe Israel off the map", but you want to believe thats what he meant, so you have decided. In fact you probably know what he is going to say next and what his real meaning is. Maybe you should just simply write his next speech.

Originally posted by danwild6

Originally posted by DJMessiah
Or maybe Israel is spreading their propoganda to make Jews think the world is against them, so they think that the only safe place for them is in Israel.

Oh yeah the old Jews control the media arguement, like Rupert Murdock, Ted Turner etc. etc.

First of all, I never said "Jews control the media." You provided that remark yourself. If you doubt that Israel is spreading propoganda, then watch this

Second, if Israel had no problems with Iran having Nuclear power plants, then why are they concerned over them having them now, and why have they bombed them in the past?

If Iran did have a nuke, which I don't see happening, it would take ten years to create, and would be used as a defensive measure against what looks like Israel trying to eliminate any enemies they've created.

Originally posted by golddragnet
That is ridiculous, you ask for an exact translation, and before you even hear it you have already declared you know his realt meaning was, despite that even the guy who first reported it has since admitted that he got it wrong and he misinterpreted it.

Prove it.

Originally posted by golddragnet
So how do you know what his real meaning was??? Did he tell you, did you hear him speak, did you interprete the quote, or did you simply read it in the media? In fact if the media writes it enough times then it must be true.

Like I said before there isn't an exact translation, but that doesn't mean you or I can't discern what was implied in his repeated statements about Israel. Its pretty obvious if you ask me.

Originally posted by golddragnet
There isn't much point in you hearing the most correct translation as you have already decided, and you also have decided that any other translation other than the version you want to believe, must be incorrect. So the guy never said "wipe Israel off the map", but you want to believe thats what he meant, so you have decided. In fact you probably know what he is going to say next and what his real meaning is. Maybe you should just simply write his next speech.

Its not about what I want to believe. Its about what I believe and why I believe it. And I'm not sure that he didn't say that "Israel should be wiped off the map", in fact I'm pretty sure he did or at least something to that effect(given his ideological background).

Originally posted by DJMessiah
First of all, I never said "Jews control the media." You provided that remark yourself. If you doubt that Israel is spreading propoganda,

I don't doubt that Israel spreads propoganda(as every modern state does); however, I also don't doubt that Israel is under fire(sometimes legitimately)for its actions and reactions regardless if they were warranted or not.

Originally posted by DJMessiah
Second, if Israel had no problems with Iran having Nuclear power plants, then why are they concerned over them having them now, and why have they bombed them in the past?

Ah Israel has major concerns about Iran's nuclear plant, as does a great part of the planet. And they bombed Saddam's plant to destroy is, and thus prevent or at least curtail the nuclear program he was pursuing.

Originally posted by DJMessiah
If Iran did have a nuke, which I don't see happening, it would take ten years to create, and would be used as a defensive measure against what looks like Israel trying to eliminate any enemies they've created.

I can see it happening if the situation with Iran's program isn't resolved satisfactorially. Iraq wasn't anywhere near developing a nuke when Israel attacked. They attacked becasue they ween't going to what for Saddam to get it, and because no one else was interested in stopping him(America included)at the time.

Originally posted by danwild6
Its not about what I want to believe. Its about what I believe and why I believe it. And I'm not sure that he didn't say that "Israel should be wiped off the map"

It is hardly necessary for someone to prove "what he DIDN'T say". You PROVE that he DID say he wants to wipe Israel off the map?

You have even admitted you don't know for sure what he did say, but you have decided that he must have meant to say "Wipe Israel off the map".

I don't think it should be necessary for me to attempt to prove what someone DIDN'T say, absurd especially considering it has been admitted along time ago that it was a deliberate misquote and the Iranian was asking for a "Regime change" in Israel, and millions of other people across the world agree with him that Israel needs a regime change.

Anyhow, here is Wikipedias covering of the deliberate misquote, I am sure you will still remain convinced that he said Wipe Israel Off the map, and it is probably pointless to discuss it further as you have made up your mind that even if he didn't say it he meant to say it.

"Ahmadinejad did not say he was going to wipe Israel off the map because no such idiom exists in Persian" and "He did say he hoped its regime, i.e., a Jewish-Zionist state occupying Jerusalem, would collapse."
en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 27-3-2007 by golddragnet]

Originally posted by golddragnet
It is hardly necessary for someone to prove "what he DIDN'T say". You PROVE that he DID say he wants to wipe Israel off the map?

No prove to me that the translation was recanted or prove to me that he made no statement referring to the destruction of Israel.

Originally posted by golddragnet
You have even admitted you don't know for sure what he did say, but you have decided that he must have meant to say "Wipe Israel off the map".

I have admitted that it is a possibilty however I believe the majority of the evidence suggests he did make such a statement.

Originally posted by golddragnet
I don't think it should be necessary for me to attempt to prove what someone DIDN'T say, absurd especially considering it has been admitted along time ago that it was a deliberate misquote and the Iranian was asking for a "Regime change" in Israel, and millions of other people across the world agree with him that Israel needs a regime change.

Okay so he was just sking for regime change. Yeah I'm sure he'd be happy with Israel in existence just with a more friendly government. My friend Israel is a democracy, its regime is change by the will of the people, so does he mean to remove the people? I think that is very much what he would like. And yes I've heard the quotes that he was referring to the Zionist regime. But you should know that the Zionist movement was inspired to create for the Jewish people a homeland. This was accomplished albeit at the expense of the people already there.

Originally posted by golddragnet
Anyhow, here is Wikipedias covering of the deliberate misquote, I am sure you will still remain convinced that he said Wipe Israel Off the map, and it is probably pointless to discuss it further as you have made up your mind that even if he didn't say it he meant to say it.

"Ahmadinejad did not say he was going to wipe Israel off the map because no such idiom exists in Persian" and "He did say he hoped its regime, i.e., a Jewish-Zionist state occupying Jerusalem, would collapse."

[sarcasm]Oh thats all he said huh, yeah thats totally different.[/sarcasm]

You're really splitting hairs here my friend. Anyone who has their head so far up their own rear to be arguing that he didn't say he wanted Israel wiped off the map then post that statement...sigh its just beyond words

Whats the point there is no arguing with people who can't see the obvious. Nobody thought Hitler was a threat until it was to late. Everyone thought Stalin was just misunderstood and that Mao was an idealist.

you are totally deluded. do you believe everything the controlled mainstream media tells you, it is so easy for them to pull the wool over your eyes. So now you even think wikipedia is lying. And YES there is a HUGE difference between calling for a regime change and declaring to wipe a nation off the map. There are many americans want a regime change in america, does that mean they want to wipe america off the map. It is totally pointless to go any farther with this as you obviously have made up your mind, despite having absolutely no evidence of what he said, you are certainly not very bright. Maybe you could write to wikipedia and tell them they got it wrong and explain to them YOUR translation of what the guy said.
Deny Ignorance is a phrase that is seen alot on this website, I won't be reading this thread again because I find it depressing to know there are people still so easily brainwashed by the propaganda machine

I could say the same to you. But the answer to your question is no. I don't because a lot of it is spun for ratings. If I want to find the truth I look for it myself. And I never said I believed wikipedia lied, in fact I use sites like wikipedia, youtube and a number of others for research into a topic of interest. And yes many Americans(including this one)can't wait until Jan. 17 2009, but however it happens it will be done in accordance with the constitution. I think anyone with any degree of knowledge on Ahmadinejad's intentions can clearly assert that isn't what he means.

Yes I have made up my mind precisely because of the evidence and the lack of evidence to the contrary. Nice little shriek on the retreat there. Got what wrong? The statements attributed to Ahmadinejad, the many statements attributed to Ahmadinejad?

I find the world frustrating, as so many people are so thoroughly and completely brainwashed by conspiracy theories and there pushers. That I find it reasonable to say that a great many people if told so would believe the claim that the world is flat(as some do)and the fabrication that the world is round. Is perpetuated by government elites for the purpose of legitimizing the false concept of space exploration so they may take for their own the billions of dollars allocated for such purposes.