Who owns the U.S Debt

Originally posted by In nothing we trust

Why would a banker continue to lend money to a nation knowing full well that it could never be payed back?

because we are the United states, unless your China or some other Nuclear Power, you don't much have a choice but to lend to us, or used to be the case. A lot of countries switching to the euro. Would explain why we needed that oil.

[edit on 6-3-2007 by kleverone]

Originally posted by mel1962

Originally posted by FreiMaurer

Originally posted by mel1962
That's see,

Current Foreign Investment increased from 14.5% in '95 to 25% in '06.

Current US Gov't holdings increased from 33% in '95 to 52% in '06.

In other words, if the debt is forgiven by the US (SS is destroyed) than Foreign holdings sky rocket from 25% to 52% in '06. Hmmm . . . I think we will just print money and screw the world?

Not that there is anything wrong with that!

Buy Gold and Silver now!

I keep saying but no one seems to listen? Gold and Silver are projected to grow less than 1% and negatively grow in value per ounce over the next year.

So ... why buy these they aren't really even considered investments at that point?

Gold and Silver are finite commodities, mining of these minerals have dimished or peaked. Plus the fact they are used in industry and people of China and India can now own. Than add the fact the US government is no longer reporting M3 and the only way to erase the debt is to print money and cheapen it! That makes most commodities great hedges against inflation!

Remember that a hedge against inflation means a hedge against growth that's what inflation is these days, growth (simplistically). I personally do not see any commodity as a good hedge, merely a less risk investment if bought at a good point in time. Currently as was mentioned elsewhere the London Bullion Market Association is not predicting well for gold or silver and in both cases the London Bullion is a powerful organisation in determining what happens with the price of those two commodities.

Originally posted by Frimurar
Remember that a hedge against inflation means a hedge against growth that's what inflation is these days, growth (simplistically).

Don’t you think that fractional banking is a major cause of inflation? I mean if you create money where non exist, it’s sure to dilute the current money supply, hence causing inflation. And please even “simplistically”, inflation is not growth! How could you even think that?

BTW, did you watch the video I posted on the previous page? (you really should) Are you going to respond to my other questions?.

EDIT: Oh… just noticed you got banned once more… That’s really too bad, you have a good knowledge of finance and freemasonry. Although, I would’ve loved to debate economics with you. (you still should watch that video on the previous page, both of these economists are from the Austrian school of economics and are not right-wing conspiracy theorists.)

[edit on 7/3/07 by ConspiracyNut23]

[edit on 7/3/07 by ConspiracyNut23]

Why would a banker continue to lend money to a nation knowing full well that it could never be payed back?

In short (or probably long as most of my posts end up going) it's like this:

As was kind of answered in a post just after your question, the people that lend it don't really care. They are creating the money out of thin air anyway. It's just a numbers game and they are already stockpiling what is really of value (gems, gold, silver, etc.) by purchasing it with the 'free' money that they get from the 'governments' of the world.

To keep it simple, let's say that before 1913 the United States only had $1,000 to give to its people. They would lend it out and state that this money is to be used for purchases and transactions, etc. They did not charge interest at that time because that is truly and honestly evil and where ALL of the problems stem from. So, at any given time the amount of money that is backed by the U.S. is $1,000. If the population grew by 5% over the next year then the funds can be increased accordingly yet inflation would never be a problem.

Now comes along these private bankers. They keep pushing and prodding the government to allow them to graciously and out of the kindness of their greedy a*s hearts to take care of our money. So, in 1913 the Federal Reserve (not a government facility but a private one with the name of federal in it) was born. Because of the Federal Reserve Act they gained some very interesting leeway.

Now, they control that same $1,000. Yet, unlike what the government would do they, because of the Federal Reserve Act and the rights granted them by it, these greedy SOBs would charge interest. Let's say 10% to keep it easy. Yet, by the ingenious thoughts of these money manipulators they added one more detail. They can now lend up to 10 times what they hold in the bank at any given time. Yikes, what does this do? Well, our government now takes loans from this Federal Reserve and has to pay it back at 10%. Yet, instead of taking out only the $1,000 that is actually backed and guaranteed they are taking out $10,000. They pay back $1,000 in interest and now the bank can lend out $20,000.

Here's the question: WHERE THE HELL DID ALL OF THIS MONEY COME FROM? Now multiply it by billions and even trillions of dollars and you can see why we will never get out of debt They create the money out of thin air.

Here's the topper. They receive trillions of dollars each year in interest and yet they are the only privately owned corporation in this country that is not required to pay a federal tax.

Nice scam.

I have to head out now. I just wanted to reply and give you a quick heads up on what is really going on. It's simple logic when you break it down.

Originally posted by dariousg
It's just a numbers game and they are already stockpiling what is really of value (gems, gold, silver, etc.) by purchasing it with the 'free' money that they get from the 'governments' of the world.

And at the same time they have also been gradually reducing the amount of silver and gold content in the coinage, and replacing it with more worthless alloys like nickle, copper, zinc and steel.

They use the interest paid on worthless paper, to buy gold while they tell us that gold is a worthless investment. They accumulate gold over decades so as to not arrouse suspicion, and then once we discover what's been going on, they blow up the twin towers and any incriminating evidence left in building 7 and skip the country, leaving us holding the bag, so to speak.



It's all been a bait and switch scam.

Clever bastards.

Evidence of coin debasement

US price levels, 1800–2000
Red line marks leaving silver standard

en.wikipedia.org...

I guess we the American people own the debt now. Of course, we no longer really have a vested interest in continuing to pay on such a ridiculous debt.

Let's have a fire sale and liquidate any remaining assets that the banks may have left inside the country, in thier mad scramble to leave America.


[edit on 7-3-2007 by In nothing we trust]

Originally posted by In nothing we trust

Originally posted by dariousg
It's just a numbers game and they are already stockpiling what is really of value (gems, gold, silver, etc.) by purchasing it with the 'free' money that they get from the 'governments' of the world.

And at the same time they have also been gradually reducing the amount of silver and gold content in the coinage, and replacing it with more worthless alloys like nickle, copper, zinc and steel.

They use the interest paid on worthless paper, to buy gold while they tell us that gold is a worthless investment. They accumulate gold over decades so as to not arrouse suspicion, and then once we discover what's been going on, they blow up the twin towers and any incriminating evidence left in building 7 and skip the country, leaving us holding the bag, so to speak.

It's all been a bait and switch scam.

Clever bastards.

Evidence of coin debasement

US price levels, 1800–2000
Red line marks leaving silver standard

en.wikipedia.org...

I guess we the American people own the debt now. Of course, we no longer really have a vested interest in continuing to pay on such a ridiculous debt.

Let's have a fire sale and liquidate any remaining assets that the banks may have left inside the country, in thier mad scramble to leave America.

[edit on 7-3-2007 by In nothing we trust]

I have focused more on posts that promote thought instead of making outrageous claims (outrageous depending on what view you take that is ). However, I have always said, in accordance to 9/11, follow the money. Or gold, and such in this case.

Why hasn't there ever been an audit performed on the Federal Reserve? They're not a federal institution (in which an audit would be mandated). Also, more importantly, why can't we call for an audit of 'our' gold reserves at Fort Knox? Why? Because it isn't there and the people in charge don't want the people to know that they let their gold leave the country.

I am confused, are you suggesting that the US Government does not reutinely audit its Gold Reserves (not just the Gold held at Fort Knox) because it does.

You can find reports on the matter through the Strategic and Critical Materials.

Also, I'm not sure where you're inventing your notion of how money is created the beginning of this thread simply argues against posted facts of who owns what portions of US debt.

Originally posted by The_Investor
I am confused, are you suggesting that the US Government does not reutinely audit its Gold Reserves (not just the Gold held at Fort Knox) because it does.

You can find reports on the matter through the Strategic and Critical Materials.

Also, I'm not sure where you're inventing your notion of how money is created the beginning of this thread simply argues against posted facts of who owns what portions of US debt.

Do you believe anything they say when we know that they do not even audit the FED, so let's try starting there? Why did they stop publishing M3 last April? No-one can really say how much Gold is left in FN, but it's not near what they claim.

I do not trust them since I KNOW what they are doing by leasing the Europeans Gold and melting it into cheap-melt One would be doing this if they were running out of Gold, or were not willing to SELL anymore of their own physical Gold. You can only do so much with derivitives and paper shorting, so they are looking for Gold elsewhere.

Moral of the story here is not to leave your physical Gold in the bank - take delivery instead. The Europeans will not be too pleased once they discover that they will not be getting back their Gold and instead will be getting bank notes.

[edit on 8-3-2007 by sweftl337]

Originally posted by sweftl337
The Europeans will not be too pleased once they discover that they will not be getting back their Gold and instead will be getting bank notes.

An IOU?

So apparently the federal reserve is the one who controls the acutal design of the notes.

The treasury is simply the printing press.

... to supervise the issue and retirement of Federal Reserve notes

frwebgate.access.gpo.gov...

Do you think the europeans know that the newest federal reserve notes are no longer payable upon demand?

Notice the statement, 'will pay to the bearer upon demand', or the lack there of, just above where it says one dollar.






[edit on 9-3-2007 by In nothing we trust]

An IOU?

So apparently the federal reserve is the one who controls the acutal design of the notes.

The treasury is simply the printing press.

Yeah, they are like the trustees in the bankruptcy agreement.

Originally posted by sweftl337

Originally posted by The_Investor
I am confused, are you suggesting that the US Government does not reutinely audit its Gold Reserves (not just the Gold held at Fort Knox) because it does.

You can find reports on the matter through the Strategic and Critical Materials.

Also, I'm not sure where you're inventing your notion of how money is created the beginning of this thread simply argues against posted facts of who owns what portions of US debt.

Do you believe anything they say when we know that they do not even audit the FED, so let's try starting there? Why did they stop publishing M3 last April? No-one can really say how much Gold is left in FN, but it's not near what they claim.

I do not trust them since I KNOW what they are doing by leasing the Europeans Gold and melting it into cheap-melt One would be doing this if they were running out of Gold, or were not willing to SELL anymore of their own physical Gold. You can only do so much with derivitives and paper shorting, so they are looking for Gold elsewhere.

Moral of the story here is not to leave your physical Gold in the bank - take delivery instead. The Europeans will not be too pleased once they discover that they will not be getting back their Gold and instead will be getting bank notes.

[edit on 8-3-2007 by sweftl337]

Of course they audit the FED it's just not done by the IRS it's probably done by the CBO or GAO.

You have a lot to learn about how Gold is managed and transported...obviously you have some fanciful inventions.

Originally posted by The_Investor

Originally posted by sweftl337

Originally posted by The_Investor
I am confused, are you suggesting that the US Government does not reutinely audit its Gold Reserves (not just the Gold held at Fort Knox) because it does.

You can find reports on the matter through the Strategic and Critical Materials.

Also, I'm not sure where you're inventing your notion of how money is created the beginning of this thread simply argues against posted facts of who owns what portions of US debt.

Do you believe anything they say when we know that they do not even audit the FED, so let's try starting there? Why did they stop publishing M3 last April? No-one can really say how much Gold is left in FN, but it's not near what they claim.

I do not trust them since I KNOW what they are doing by leasing the Europeans Gold and melting it into cheap-melt One would be doing this if they were running out of Gold, or were not willing to SELL anymore of their own physical Gold. You can only do so much with derivitives and paper shorting, so they are looking for Gold elsewhere.

Moral of the story here is not to leave your physical Gold in the bank - take delivery instead. The Europeans will not be too pleased once they discover that they will not be getting back their Gold and instead will be getting bank notes.

[edit on 8-3-2007 by sweftl337]

Of course they audit the FED it's just not done by the IRS it's probably done by the CBO or GAO.

You have a lot to learn about how Gold is managed and transported...obviously you have some fanciful inventions.

Everything revolves around the Federal reserve bank of New York.

The Federal Reserve Bank of New York maintains an underground vault in Manhattan. Reputedly it is the largest gold repository in the world (though this cannot be confirmed as Swiss Banks do not report their gold stocks). In the US The FRBNY's stocks are larger even than Fort Knox, it is 80 feet (25 m) beneath the street and holds approx 5,000 tonnes of gold bullion ($90 billion worth at 2007 prices). The gold is owned by many foreign nations, central banks and official international organizations. The Federal Reserve Bank does not own the gold but serves as guardian of the precious metal, which it "protects" at no charge as a gesture of good will to other nations.

en.wikipedia.org...

The president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York serves as a permanent member of the Open Market Committee.

frwebgate.access.gpo.gov...

Originally posted by The_Investor
... the beginning of this thread simply argues against posted facts of who owns what portions of US debt.

Oh I get it, we're arguing over who gets the assets of the bankruptcy of the United States.

Well the assets belong to the American people, the banks can have the debt.

To gain their goal of a Central Bank, J.P. Morgan and the other bankers caused a depression in 1907. J.P. Morgan helped finance Rockefeller Standard Oil and was backed by the Rothschild family and financied Andrew Carnegie (Steel), Harriman (Railroads) and one of the members of the board was a longtime member of the Bank of England.

demopedia.democraticunderground.com...

Benjamin Strong Jr. (1872 - October 1928) served as Governor of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York for 14 years until his death. Strong exerted great influence over the policy and actions of the entire Federal Reserve System.

Strong, who was Vice President of Banker’s Trust of NY, was JP Morgan's emissary to the secret Jekyll Island (Georgia) expedition in 1910;

en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 9-3-2007 by In nothing we trust]

In Nuthing you Trust I suggest you learn how the banking systems work, why would the banks want a Central Bank that now regulates and governs their market, and prevents them from having stronger monopolies than in 1907?

Democratic underground knows next to nothing.

Originally posted by The_Investor
In Nuthing you Trust I suggest you learn how the banking systems work, why would the banks want a Central Bank that now regulates and governs their market, and prevents them from having stronger monopolies than in 1907?

Investor, I'm not really sure that I understand your question.

Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws.

Mayer Amschel Rothschild
www.brainyquote.com...

Mayer Amschel Rothschild, 1790

Those few who can understand the system (check book money and credit) will either be so interested in its profits, or so dependent on it favors, that there will be little opposition from that class, while on the other hand, the great body of people mentally incapable of comprehending the tremendous advantage that capital derives from the system, will bear it burdens without complaint, and perhaps without even suspecting that the system is inimical to their interests.

en.wikiquote.org...

Mr. FreiMaurer - I will not call you names, even though you deserve so, after calling people "idiots".

I cannot believe how naive Americans are. So, as FreiMaurer says, Federal Reserve is only 50% privately owned, and that makes it legal? How on Earth can private bankers control the government money? And, can't you see that the other 50% are "civilians" who make, lets say, million dollars a year. So, let's compare...private bankers, making thousands of billions per year are controlled by "civilians" who make...as much as they make. Do you Americans really believe that something like that is possible? Do you really believe that you are protected by "democracy"? I wish I could share your illusions, I really do.

I come from Eastern Europe. This is how it looks to me: China has better schools and roads than US. Europe has better schools, roads, everything than US. Half of the world has better schools than US. US has no industry. US has enormous debt, and US has enormous deficit every year. With ABSOLUTELY NOW POSSIBLE WAY TO PAY ANYTHING off. The only way out? War. Bankers will make big war, destroy Europe (like they did before) and star all over. They will maybe also break US into several smaller countries (something like South America). They will maybe throw a few atomic bombs on US also...to make it believable and to scare people for the future.

It is very simple. Very simple.

So, FreiMaurer, please do not call me names, just repeat your "knowledgeable" explanations...I will not even bother to reply. I just wrote this for the naive readers who trusted you for your "eloquence"...obviously, I was not impressed. Not at all.

p.s. ALL countries owe money. Who do they owe money to? Just asking.

Originally posted by swimmer
Mr. FreiMaurer - I will not call you names, even though you deserve so, after calling people "idiots".

I cannot believe how naive Americans are. So, as FreiMaurer says, Federal Reserve is only 50% privately owned, and that makes it legal? How on Earth can private bankers control the government money? And, can't you see that the other 50% are "civilians" who make, lets say, million dollars a year. So, let's compare...private bankers, making thousands of billions per year are controlled by "civilians" who make...as much as they make. Do you Americans really believe that something like that is possible? Do you really believe that you are protected by "democracy"? I wish I could share your illusions, I really do.

I come from Eastern Europe. This is how it looks to me: China has better schools and roads than US. Europe has better schools, roads, everything than US. Half of the world has better schools than US. US has no industry. US has enormous debt, and US has enormous deficit every year. With ABSOLUTELY NOW POSSIBLE WAY TO PAY ANYTHING off. The only way out? War. Bankers will make big war, destroy Europe (like they did before) and star all over. They will maybe also break US into several smaller countries (something like South America). They will maybe throw a few atomic bombs on US also...to make it believable and to scare people for the future.

It is very simple. Very simple.

So, FreiMaurer, please do not call me names, just repeat your "knowledgeable" explanations...I will not even bother to reply. I just wrote this for the naive readers who trusted you for your "eloquence"...obviously, I was not impressed. Not at all.

p.s. ALL countries owe money. Who do they owe money to? Just asking.

I think Mr. Swimmer what Mr. FreiMaurer was saying before he was banned (probably for calling people idiots as you say) was that; oh whatever I'll just comment on yours with my own thoughts because you raise good points but are wrong.

First, why should anything be "government"? This the United States is of the people by the people, can't a US corporation (if wholly owned by US Citizens and nationals) be for the United States? Why is the US government any more apt to be in the best interests of the US than a citizen?

Yes the Feds are legal by law, as FreiMaurer points out - 50/50. For oversight reasons.

And as far as for your coming from Eastern Europe...please return. I don't care if you think the rest of the world is better than the US you obviously don't "get it" so just return to your position of servitude to the US or the Russian Iron boot because frankly I don't care.

What I care about that is from eastern europe is there's a very beautiful eastern Pole named Ewa that I know who recently got divorced and me and her should have bastard children...if her personality continues to be as awesome as it is maybe we should just get married...such premature thoughts *sigh*.

Investor, your writing speaks more about you than anything else.

Have a good one.

Investor, your writing speaks more about you than anything else.

Have a good one.

Originally posted by swimmer
Investor, your writing speaks more about you than anything else.

Have a good one.

Thank you and what do you think about my view points on some issues you brought-up?