My Visit with NY 9/11 Truth

I had an opportunity (finally) to attend a meeting of the local 9/11 Truth chapter here in New York, NY 9|11 Truth, with whom I've been impressed.

Anyone who has payed attention to my posts on 9/11 conspiracy issues certainly know I have some concerns with a few of the so-called "Truth Movement" groups that are springing up. Some seem more concerned with self-serving attention getting than actual results.

After spending over two hours with the 15 fine folks, and ATS receiving a warm reception, I was impressed that these are the people putting feet on the street and trying hard to raise awareness of our frustrations with the "official" explanations for the attacks on 9/11.

We had an excellent brainstorming session on awareness ideas, some of them could be very unique and ground-breaking. And part of the discussion involved AboveTopSecret.com lending a hand in helping this NY-based 9/11 Truth organization in building awareness and spreading the word about their activities.

Our "lending a hand" will likely take several forms as we figure out how we can best provide much needed help that capitalizes on our phenomenal traffic (January 2007 is on track to be our best month ever). As we finalize things, we'll post them to this thread.

But in the mean time, we're likely to see a few new members as attendees from list night's meeting and others join ATS and say hello. And I'm certain our fine members will accord this group the same warm and friendly welcome I received from them.


More coming soon...

It is my sincere hope that finally, after years of sweeping this under the rug, that the truth with reach enough people to force our leaders to answer questions - or better yet, prove it to enough people with power to actually make some sort of action happen.

Nice work Skeptic,

Absolutely, we are all seeking the same goal and all on the same side.
If there is any way members such as myself can contribute in any way please let us (or me) know.
Cheers.

excellent work yet again SkepticOverlord

glad ATS is helping a hand to the NY 9/11 chapter

That is so cool.

Its nice to see that a group of folks gave you a warm welcome and are keen to share and get information 'out there' so to speak.


9-11 needs to be brought back into the light once more of the publics mind, and not just by Bush / Blaire et al saying 'terrorism terrorism terrorism' time and time again.

The truth will be freed soon i pray.

Skeptic,

I got the chance to meet Dr. Judy Wood of S9/11truth last night. We actually were talking about ATS. She said that she's seen this site before and it was a good site. Also, we might be seeing an influx of DC9/11truthers also because a few people that were listening to our conversation were interested in this site that I was talking about.

For those that are in DC, there is a DC9/11truth meeting next Thursday the 18th at Skewers in Dupont Circle at 7 pm. I walk by there everyday from work, so I'm going to attend (and maybe recruit a few more people).

I invite all to check out their local chapter even if you are an official believer. Some of these chapters have some mistaken thoughts sometimes. What I mean is that they are only exposed to stuff like Loose Change and don't get to hear the debates from the other side.

Anyway, take care and nice job getting ATS in the for front.

Originally posted by D4rk Kn1ght
9-11 needs to be brought back into the light once more of the publics mind, and not just by Bush / Blaire et al saying 'terrorism terrorism terrorism' time and time again.

The big challenge is finding a way to help the "average joe six pack" listen to some of the core issues that define our concerns over the events of 9/11.

Shouting in the streets only gets us so far.

1+ Hour videos on Google/YouTube are only watched by a small segment.

The "message" needs to be refined so that those who have been turned off by passionate activists and those who simply don't care, can easily digest the basic issues... and begin understanding the questions.

I think ATS can help refine and disseminate the idea that there are important questions without compromising our core (management) ideals of appearing to embrace specific theories.

We're actually working on what could be a very exciting idea... and the members of ATS may have a gigantic role to play.

For one thing, i think the movement needs to focus on advanced warnings, air defense stand-down, insider trading, and evidence for controlled demolition and against "pancake", along with some other strong evidence of government lies.

We certainly need a short, concise video on Google that covers all of the bases and gives a short list of other good videos to watch like "911 mysteries" but id probably avoid loose change. Also, we should set up a website with only the best evidence of the 911 lies being sold.


Other than that we need massive protests in the streets of Washington that are so big they cannot be ignored. We need enough people marching through the streets so that the whole city will be shut down. We need people determined enough to camp out until there is a real government response. For example, look back to the Ukrainian election fiasco.

Also, people should call into every live television and radio talk show and say something along the lines, "911 was an inside job and i can prove it! Go to such-and-such website for more info and links...." Organize with people online so that we can have a ton of truthers calling in at the same time to shows like Bill O-reilly and blasting him for his garbage cover-up.

The truth is out there

Originally posted by sp00n1
Also, people should call into every live television and radio talk show and say something along the lines, "911 was an inside job and i can prove it! Go to such-and-such website for more info and links...." Organize with people online so that we can have a ton of truthers calling in at the same time to shows like Bill O-reilly and blasting him for his garbage cover-up.

I agree. But, we DON'T have the proof. If we start telling people we do and can't step up to the plate, then we just look like a bunch of kooks.

Skeptic,

What do you think would be the main points in telling "Joe-six-pack" to get them to listen? Just curious as to the main points that got you interested in 9/11 theories.

Indeed, i entirely agree that we dont have proof. But we do have evidence! In my example i was trying to demonstrate somebody being passionate about it.

We have lots of strong evidence. Whereas the official story not only has no proof, it has seemingly no evidence!

Did you know that the FBI hasnt even issued a warrant for Osama in regard to 911 because they have absolutely no evidence?

Just as a test, how many people reading this would want to organize to call into Bill Oreilly at some point and say something along the lines, "There's lots of evidence that the government is outright lying about 911. Why do you keep covering it up?"

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by D4rk Kn1ght
9-11 needs to be brought back into the light once more of the publics mind, and not just by Bush / Blaire et al saying 'terrorism terrorism terrorism' time and time again.

The big challenge is finding a way to help the "average joe six pack" listen to some of the core issues that define our concerns over the events of 9/11.

Shouting in the streets only gets us so far.

1+ Hour videos on Google/YouTube are only watched by a small segment.

The "message" needs to be refined so that those who have been turned off by passionate activists and those who simply don't care, can easily digest the basic issues... and begin understanding the questions.

I think ATS can help refine and disseminate the idea that there are important questions without compromising our core (management) ideals of appearing to embrace specific theories.

We're actually working on what could be a very exciting idea... and the members of ATS may have a gigantic role to play.

Count me in,I'll help in any way possible Skeptic Overlord.

Originally posted by sp00n1
Just as a test, how many people reading this would want to organize to call into Bill Oreilly at some point and say something along the lines, "There's lots of evidence that the government is outright lying about 911. Why do you keep covering it up?"

I believe that would be a better way of going about it. Semantics, I know, but "they" would use the same arguement against us IMO.

Originally posted by Griff
What do you think would be the main points in telling "Joe-six-pack" to get them to listen? Just curious as to the main points that got you interested in 9/11 theories.

I think that is best left up to others. While I have strong opinions and some ideas, in reality, I've put more effort into ATS than 9/11 research.

I know one thing... there is only one way to break through and reach "joe six pack", and that is to mimic consumer advertising.

If 9/11 conspiracies were a product, how would we brand it?

Once we have a brand, how do we communicate it?

And once we communicate and have awareness, how do we "sell it"?

And these are the things I can help with.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
I know one thing... there is only one way to break through and reach "joe six pack", and that is to mimic consumer advertising.

Do you mean like having the begining of a video with girls in bikinis jumping on trampolines? Kind of a joke but if I'm correct in what you ment, that is not so outlandish.

Skeptic Overlord -

Keep me up to date - I am one of the 'leaders' of a major chapter of the Truth movement in Pennsylvania, and the Philadelphia-area universities.

We'd love to help in any way possible.


Also, I think that if Loose Change is released in theaters in 2007 (like expected), this will create a plethora of Hollywood Buzz. I know that Loose Change is not the most credible source - as does the creators - but it is an elementary film that could very well open many people's eyes to the movement.

If we can maybe coincide our 'advertising' with its release, I feel it could be of great help.

Originally posted by Griff
but if I'm correct in what you ment, that is not so outlandish.

We need a recognizable "brand icon" that represents our frustration with issues of the "official story'.

Something that can be singularly recognizable like...
Colonel Sanders
Mickey Mouse
Geico's Gecko
Taco Bell's Chihuahua
Apple's logo
Intel's short jingle
All of these become recognizable symbols that inspire an immediate recognition and recall in people that see or hear them. While many in our circle may despise these types of things, they exist for a reason... it works.

Many people are somewhat aware that 9/11 conspiracy theories exist... but are often like the "800 Pound Gorilla" sitting in the room that no one likes to talk about.

It boils down to: If we can solve how to talk about 9/11 conspiracy topics in a cocktail party, without getting thrown out, then we have something.

So, I guess our first agenda is to brainstorm this "brand icon". I see what you are getting at. Any thoughts yet on an icon?

Originally posted by Griff
Any thoughts yet on an icon?

Ah... I thought you never ask.

Why yes...

A nine hundred and eleven pound gorilla.

www.911gorilla.com...
(place holder site)

If we can come up with an amazing illustration of the "911 Pound Gorilla" that has the potential to become an internationally recognized "brand icon", then we just might have something.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by Griff
Any thoughts yet on an icon?

Ah... I thought you never ask.

Why yes...

A nine hundred and eleven pound gorilla.

www.911gorilla.com...
(place holder site)

If we can come up with an amazing illustration of the "911 Pound Gorilla" that has the potential to become an internationally recognized "brand icon", then we just might have something.

I like - alot. I also know some artists who may be interested in taking this project under their wings.

I'm going to have to bring up the counterpoint here. The reason that marketing for the items SO listed work is because people, at the most basic level, want those things. They want food, they want a computer, they want music players. And those companies deliver. They differentiate between products, and thus provide alternatives. They taste good. The music quality is best. Mickey makes us laugh. Every kid wants an iPod to look cool.

The average person doesn't want an alternative to the official version of 9/11. You can throw as many spears as you want in the official story, and it will never penetrate the mind of the average joe. I've read a lot of the posts on ATS concerning 9/11. I don't consider myself a stupid person. I consider myself open-minded. But there is absolutely nothing on this site concerning 9/11 that makes me think that it was anything other than al-Qaeda terrorists acting at the behest of OBL. Sure, there are some inconsistencies, but these are more easily attributable to incompetence, bad luck or stress than a government conspiracy. And I think the majority of average people feel the same way as I do. So how would marketing work for these people? They aren't looking for alternatives.

The only thing that most people seem to agree on is that the Government knows more than it is telling about 9/11. And that, I'm afraid, is a fairly common response world wide towards governmental secrecy. Most Australians will tell you they think there is more to Pine Gap than the Government is saying. But tell someone that a cruise missile took at the Pentagon, and they will laugh at you, despite bent light poles, hole sizes and the rest evidence put forward.

It is admirable that people are passionate about a subject that they feel strongly about. But what is your end-state? What do you ultimately want to achieve? Do you have have an agreed version of what you will communicate (and let's face it, even 9/11 truthers disagree on a range of topics)? If you are going to use symbols and jingles, how do you ensure that whenever someone sees or hears it, they don't just laugh and roll there eyes? Are you going to distance yourself from the more outlandish theories? Because detractors will tar you with the same brush, whether you like it or not.

It is exciting to get traction, but don't let the joy of the moment cause you to overstep too early. For something like this, you need to slowly penetrate the market, not blast into existence. The first time I saw anything questioning 9/11, it was a powerpoint on the Pentagon. I thought it was interesting, and so passed it on to friends (even though I thought it was wrong, and still do). Loose Change works, because people get it through e-mails and links, similar to viral marketing. Start with bite sized chunks. Hell, start with baby formula. Start with something the average person would say is a legitimate concern. Then develop your hypothesis as momentum builds. Forget referencing Northwoods, most people who can read can tell that it is old, never got approved, and is a big leap from going from something like that to something like 9/11. Think Scientology marketing as an example. They don't come out with some of their more outlandish claims, they start off as self-help and self-development. It works.

I'm not trying to put a dampner on things, but merely trying to encourage caution. To deny ignorance, the general population must be receptive to having their attitudes changed, and this won't happen if you hit them between the eyes with a sustained marketing campaign from the get-go. You need to (and please excuse a military term) shape the battlespace for success. Hope you take this advice with the good intentions with which I give it, and best of luck!