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Originally posted by boyg2004
Are some further left wing elements within the labour party attempting to gain state control of the housing market by deliberately aiming to price houses above peoples means, and therefore forcing many back to council housing?
Here is a link to a new initiative by the Labour government which allows you to buy part of a house, while the state (us) buys the rest.
www.mortgagesorter.co.uk...
Co-Ownership has been running very successfully since 1978 and has helped more than 19,000 households to purchase the homes of their choice through shared ownership.
Purchasers take as large a share as they can afford to start with – 40%, 50%, 62.5% or 75%. They can then increase that share at any time ('staircasing').
Is Labour covertly following the far left wing policy of control and collectivisation whilst providing dis-information to the electorate that it is in fact slightly centre-right?
How long before they attempt to gain control of industry and agriculture?
- Well, OK, we're all entitled to our take on events and our own opinions but I have to say that if you honestly see anything "far left" about this Labour Gov and (Tory?) Blair then you are in about as small a minority as it is possible to be in.
Do let us know tho, cos I'd be fascinated to see how this imminent nationalisation you imagine happening is going to work out.
Originally posted by boyg2004
two words... John Reid
en.wikipedia.org...
'I used to be a communist' he said.
I really can't see every last far left ideology being dropped by him.
This guy is likely to challenge Gordon Brown for Labour leadership, by the way.
There are bucketloads of them around my area if you want one.
Local authority housing grew after World War I; 2 million houses were built before 1939, over 4 million more after the war. Initially, council housing was intended for the "working classes". The main justification for its development after 1919 was the provision of housing for general needs, but after 1930, it became focused on people displaced after slum clearance. The stigma of council housing probably dates from this period: council estates were built in locations where they would not adversely affect the values of owner-occupied property.
After World War II, references to the 'working classes' were removed. The replacement of the housing stock, particularly through clearances, became council housing's main role, with mass building. The subsidies favoured industrial, high-rise building, though this was often more expensive than the alternatives. Quantity was more important than quality. (3)
Housing policy changed after 1970, when political support for council housing was withdrawn by the Conservatives. In the 1970s and 80s, council housing acquired a more residual role, and is now more concerned with welfare issues and special needs. General subsidies have been progressively withdrawn; for most tenants they have been replaced by Housing Benefit. The sale of council housing to tenants, and mass transfers of stock to Registered Social Landlords, have reduced the numbers. (4) As the role of council housing has diminished, Housing Associations have been encouraged to take over the limited opportunities for development.
It's not going to work out. It is in motion. 'New' Labour is only a re-branding attempt to distance itself from the largest economic disaster in recent British history in the 1970's, whereby Labour considered options as wild as nationalisation.
I am currently paying ridiculous taxes to substain people who refuse to go to work.
Oh. Thanks for the welcome. I've been reading ATS and Politics@ATS and it's great.
but I have to say that if you honestly see anything "far left" about this Labour Gov and (Tory?) Blair then you are in about as small a minority as it is possible to be in.
Originally posted by boyg2004
i'm really glad I was able to touch a nerve.
But you'll never convince me otherwise.
Writing long answers only serves to confuse the writer and readers.
John Reid is a self confessed ex-communist.
If I was a self confessed homosexual in my twenties (and i'm not), would you believe me when I said I only like women now?
If I was a self confessed member of Combat18 in my twenties (and i'm not), would you believe that I never harboured a right-wing agenda into my thirties
Now be a dear and admit you were wrong about the statement you made regarding the present Labour government...
I see it loud and clear, captain.
Are you saying that co-ownership of housing by the state does not represent a socialist ideal?
Are you saying that the government could not have increased the interest rates quicker to avert a boom-bust (remember that old tory problem) happening again?
Or are we seeing a deliberate avenue into more power to the state through holding every household in the nation to ransom through dictated rent rates as well as being punished for being successful and educated through the coucil tax system.
Incidentally, I did not see anything in the ATS terms and conditions which forbade the use of the Daily Mail for quotes.
Like I said, and so what?
sadly it looks like you are working to an entirely different agenda of your own.
No but generally we do encourage people to credit their quotations and admit the source for their material.
Some comment about Dr John Reid (and what you imagine he might try to do, some day, in your opinion) along with vague claims about the Labour Gov in the 1970's and then you round it off with some 'Daily Mail-esque' anecdotal complaints about 'some people' you claim to know (all about)....
Originally posted by boyg2004
May I gather from your fervent dismissal of this conpiracy theory that you are DEFENDING this government, its actions, its policies, its general behavior toward the electorate, and the political leanings of John Reid?
Do you really expect the people who read this forum to accept that he still doesn't hold some communist beliefs close to him.
Do you expect people to contribute to this forum when your own contribution is nothing other than that of somebody who goes over a document robotically picking fault on people for being so stupid as not to know every last detail of every political exchange ever?
I must forgive myself for showing an interest in politics, kind sir. Do you treat everyone with such contempt, or just the ones who have good grammar and can spell properly?
We must all give fantistic answers to you, we owe it to the people of the forum to provide substantiation to the argument but not you.
I'm here to seriously discuss a conspiracy I see unfolding before my eyes. That's a C O N S P I R A C Y.
Answer me this, please. If the housing price boom is just a matter of supply v demand, all due to your accusation of neglect by the torys...
why don't Labour simply build more council houses (and i'm not going to call the housing an official name when I don't need to, Cap). It's in their blood, so why?
OR... They will stop the bulldozing of the estates neglected by the big bad Torys and force average Joe from the recently closed down Plc to reduce his level to the slums from whence he came.
I know that the government gave autonomy to the Bank of England to consider interest rates. You really insulted me there. That hit a nerve with me. Disrespectful. However, if you seriously believe that Gordon Brown cannot waltz into the board meeting and TELL them that rates go up or go down then you are as naive as you are long-winded.
Un-constitutional or not, it happens. To think the government has no say, cannot exhibit political pressure to its own end or, indeed, cannot take the privelege away at the drop of a hat is retarded.
Could you please tell me what this agenda may be
I must encourage you to credit your quotation and admit the source of material, Captain.
Furthermore, having actually finally read your entire series of replies, I find it is full of self-opinionated rubbish.
1. I KNOW John Reid was a Communist and have subsantial evidence to back it up. You do not think he is, and you have no evidence other than 'your opinion' to give this meat.
2. My 'Vague' claim is that in the 1970's, just prior to a new Tory power in '78 is that British interest rates were around 15%. The economy was in tatters, and the country was on the brink of bankruptcy. Disprove that.
3. What is 'Daily Mail-esque'.
Opinions must be backed up with links to obscure websites according to our neutral 'expert'.
My anecdotal complaints are a reflection of my life. Is it not the prerogative of the electorate to take his complaints to public debate? Or would you prefer that it was handled behind closed doors?
Party electoral manifestos have not contained the term socialism since 1992, although when Clause 4 was abolished the words "the Labour Party is a democratic socialist party" were added to the party's constitution.
In the United Kingdom the governing Labour Party describes itself as a socialist political party and is a member of the socialist organisation, Socialist International. The Party was set up by trade-unionists, revolutionary and reformist socialists such as the SDF and the socialist Fabian Society.
In complete contrast to a socialist policy New Labour is hell bent on worsening the housing crisis. They are attempting to systematically sell off what remains of council housing.
Originally posted by boyg2004
The Labour party does have a socialist agenda.
You cannot disagree with their description of themselves.
My opinion on this statement, and I'm really not bothered whether you like unsubstantiated opinions or not
New Labour is centre left at the moment, once the worst parts from the right have been pushed away then they will return to a more traditional form of left.
I assume (dangerous word on this forum) that your repeated accusation that I may not know much about what socialism actually is can be quelled by this link
To back up my secondary theory that New Labour will revert ot Old Labour is it affiliations
m'kay.
So Labour as a whole is not socialist - wrong
So Labour doesn't harbour left-wing ideals within itself - wrong
So council housing (and therefore co-ownership) isn't socialist - wrong
Churchill’s last government succeeded in building 300,000 housing units in its first year
Labour are harbouring left-wing elements within their cabinet
whose agenda it is to drive house prices up by creating a supply/demand crisis in council housing by refusing to build the necessary amount of houses.
the number of public houses built went down to 35,000 in 1990 from 170,000 in the mid-1970s, with most of these built by housing associations rather than councils
We are well on our way to meeting our objective of 2 million new homeowners since 1997.
After 160,000 hew homes built last year there are now an additional 1.8 million homeowners – possible because of low mortgage rates.
But Government must also help balance supply and demand. Our priority, as barker recommended, has been: first, new laws to speed up planning; and second, to release more public sector land now and in the future, to build 100,000 more houses.
This will work in unison with the deliberate upward trend of interest rates by pressure being exerted on the Bank of England by the government.
Dec 2006: The IMF, in its annual health-check, has just described his management of the economy as "impressive" - not a word it bandies around - and added that the outlook was for "continued strong and stable growth (of 2.75% for 2007 and 2008) with a return of inflation to target".
UK hailed as the new Goldilocks economy
· Britain is neither too hot nor too cold, says OECD
· Rich nations club revises growth forecast up to 2.8%
September 6, 2006
11 Dec 2006 :By granting the Bank of England operational independence, he was able to provide a guarantee to financial markets and to the electorate of lasting financial stability. Central banks may get things wrong from time to time, but at least the errors are those of judgement, rather than political expediency.
So far, the policy has been a resounding success: inflation has been remarkably stable in recent years, and the amplitude of the British economic cycle has been dampened. "No more boom and bust" might make a suitable epitaph for Gordon Brown's years at No 11
Stephen King s managing director of economics at HSBC
The remaining private houses will be priced outwith the reach of the working classes.
Labour will then embark on a heroic nationwide council house building programme which will present them with a situation whereby they have control of the masses on a personal level.
there's a world of difference in quoting the Guardian reporting on an official report here & the quoting & relying on mere editorial comment from the likes of the Daily Mail or Telegraph
You can throw as many links in as you like but that does not indicate any actual understanding on your part.
Your input is welcome but you ought to back it up with facts & not just hunches or personal prejudices & keep within the Terms & conditions.
Communism, also known as “scientific socialism”, like the latter name points out, is derived from socialism.
he also said that the spirit of "fighting class" should be brought back to the Labour Party
A former ship's steward and trade union activist
During his time at Leeds he was elected president of the students' union with the support of the Broad Left, a coalition including Liberal, Socialist and the Communist Societies.
Out of Parliament, and now Margaret Beckett, she won election to Labour's National Executive Committee in 1980, and supported left-winger Tony Benn for the Labour deputy leadership in 1981 against Denis Healey.
The term "Bennite", generally understood to mean someone of a radical but democratic left-wing position
He publicly supported Sinn Féin and the reunification of Ireland
In a keynote speech to the Labour Party Conference of 1980 Benn outlined what he envisaged the next Labour government would do. "Within days" a Labour government would grant powers to nationalise industries, control capital and implement industrial democracy; "within weeks" all powers from Brussels would be returned to Westminster and then they would abolish the House of Lords by the creation of a thousand peers and then by abolishing the peerage. Benn received a tumultuous applause from the audience.
"It's very interesting to me that some ex-communists in the Labour party have been able to shift from Stalin to Blair and it hasn't been much of a shift...The shift from Stalin to Blair is a minor adjustment."
Well, OK, we're all entitled to our take on events and our own opinions but I have to say that if you honestly see anything "far left" about this Labour Gov and (Tory?) Blair then you are in about as small a minority as it is possible to be in.
The influence of the Communist Party on New Labour has been neglected. One day it will be an important subject for a dissertation or PhD by a university graduate. It is not merely the case that a significant number of figures in the Government machine - John Reid, David Triesman, Peter Mandelson, Charlie Whelan to name a few - belonged to the Communist Party of Great Britain in all its King Street grandeur.
Many others - Stephen Byers and Alan Milburn among them - were connected in one way or another with the obscure sub-Marxist organisations that abounded in the 1970s, doing their best to tear down capitalism. Even those, like Jack Straw, who had no Marxist sympathies at all, were obliged to come to terms with communist methods and adversaries in the shadowy internecine struggles of the 1970s and 1980s. It is these methods - as opposed to the now despised Marxist dogma about ownership of the means of production - that have endured to influence the Blair Government. Millbank admittedly borrowed its technology - rebuttal units, the Excalibur computer etc - from the United States. But the obsessive secrecy, centralisation and intolerance of dissent which were such overwhelming characteristics of the Millbank operation reek of the CPGB.
Alfred Sherman, a one-time communist who later became a close adviser to former Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher
It has been said that there is no fool like an old fool, except a young fool.
But the young fool has first to grow up to be an old fool to realize what a damn fool he was when he was a young fool.
this might interest you, or not -
It has been said that there is no fool like an old fool, except a young fool.
But the young fool has first to grow up to be an old fool to realize what a damn fool he was when he was a young fool.
As for what other people's opinions are about the Labour party? Pppppfffhhhh, well, you know what they say about opinions.
I have proved that the biggest and most sustained reduction in public housing provision, post war, was under Thatcher and Major's tory Govs.
Time I jumped in
Glad to have you join this forum, boyg2004 and I do hope you’ll enjoy your time here. In your own words: ” Writing long answers only serves to confuse the writer and readers.” so I’ll do my best to keep this short for you to understand.