What is ATS? (the DR episode from the horse's mouth)

Yesterday, we had an episode that dominated board activity with 12.5% of all posts on the day. This is the first time one thread has exceeded 7% of daily posts. Normally, I stay silent, and have stayed publicly silent regarding the topic of yesterday's thread, but now that the dust is settling, there are a few things to clear up.

First, an apology to all who come here seeking intelligent discussion on important topics. While there was still some excellent activity yesterday, one topic, unrelated to the mission of ATS, became an overwhelming distraction for many. That's not what we're about.

The former moderator, Dragonrider, was fooled by a hacker some time ago, and since then, has not been able to accept that the "W" person was a hacker. For those who have been on ATS for some time, you will easily recall that discussion of confirmed hackers is prohibited. We happened to get one who said conspiracy-related things we like to hear, and many were fooled by his mysterious persona. Dragonrider has been unable to come to terms that he was playing with us, and has repeatedly gone against the wishes of myself, SimonGray, and Bob88 in continuing discussion about "W". The rest has been aired in the public fora in excruciating detail about "banned" topics and "administration mystery". The reason for the supposed "mystery" has always been very simple: we don't discuss hackers or hacking... doing so lends them and their act credibility.

Unable to keep the discussion amongst staff, this member, and several others took an attitude of protest and martyrdom... announcing that "Deny Ignorance" is a farce, some subjects are forbidden, and that board administration cannot be trusted. This person whom I and others once trusted, has resorted to deep, penetrating, and lasting personal insults in an effort of subversion seeking to cast doubt on the long hard work Simon has put into building ATS, and the recent work I've been doing helping ATS grow. He continues to imply we are connected to dark and mysterious government entities... it's not true... it's ill-intended... and it's hurtful.

What have we become? Is that it... a community of bickering simpletons more interested in the latest gossip and speculation on internal political subterfuge of board administration than the mission of ATS? You all came here for various reasons. Indeed, there are likely as many reasons for people finding ATS as there are members. But we should all be ashamed for how easy we let a petty squabble overwhelm discussion and cast doubt on the mission of this website. I have no illusions that ATS will ever have the power to make a difference... but we're starting to matter. Given our growth over the past 6 months (recent traffic this past week indicates a 12x growth since this time last year), we are on the cusp of being an important website. Every day, more than 6,000 people find ATS... what did they find yesterday?

Our once valuable member has been seen taking pride in the giant thread his selfish act created yesterday. Saying he should get more ATS points for creating such a popular thread. The thread is the most embarrassing event in the recent history of ATS.

For the near future, I'm taking a posting hiatus. The site will still run. I'll still pay attention to issues in the staff forum. I may respond to this thread, may not. And for those who would like a little more information on "W", I might respond to a U2U request.


I wrote this, firmly stand by it, and hope that ATS can return to mean this, and not petty selfish squabbles, gossip, game-playing, and chaos.


deny ignorance

This motto has life. It has purpose. It demands ATS members to think.

It is a state of mind.
It is a sense of purpose.
It is a statement against the paradigm.
It is a rage against mindless status-quo.

The idea of "deny ignorance" isn't a goal that ATS hopes to accomplish. Instead, it's a challenge. A call to all those who come here to aspire to a higher state of awareness through informed discussion and debate.

Deny ignorance is what we do.
It's how we think. It's how we talk. It's how we listen.

Ignorance is the creeping crud of history that has clouded our minds and dulled our brains. It is the evil that men do, the reason history repeats, and the cause of intolerance.

We deny it. It's not welcome here. Within these boundaries, it has no strength.

Here, ignorance is denied.

I've been away for a while. I read yesterdays post from DR and couldn't believe what I was reading. DR has been an inspiration to me about a lot of things. I have learned a great deal from him.

I do however hope ATS does get more into conspiracies and what not. I love this site. I come here all the time and enjoy a lot of the topics. We have expanded so much over the past year. Its amazing. Thats all for now.


Nightwalker

I think a much more up-front approach yesterday may have suppressed the postign event that followed. That being said, perhaps you needed time to collect your thoughts.

Cooler heads prevail.

Thanks for the response.

Luke

Hell, he thinks I'm a FED who works at Quantico.

Kudos! I always try to keep in mind the importance of honesty and truth myself and a while back was also angered by the mundane plethora of useless debate on particular issues. Not to mention the ignorance that is openly displayed by those who choose to allow digression to the point of pointlessness. Anyone here that I have had to do with has been more than kind, pleasant and intelligent; admittedly I can be cryptic and vague at times that can lend to the need for clarification terminologically.

Besides, with a name like mine and the vague script I sometimes produce, I have found that many do not choose to be particularly affront or social with me. That is fine as I am a writer not a discussion show host. Regardless, I only replied to this post because I myself have had to learn to modify and adjust to life on the ATS.

"Intellect, balance and peace within. May the door of truth be open to us all."

To be perfectly blunt, I saw the thread yesterday and, quite simply, ignored it. I had no knowledge of the matter and had no inclinations to want to know. This site is a "conspiracy" site and as per IMHO, the thread fell into such a category. Seems that many here tend to think that "everything" falls or is connected to a "conspiracy"......I abstained from it and rightly so.

One of the most brilliant writings I have seen since I have had the pleasure to be here was written by, none other than William......the "Deny Ignorance" credo.....still leaves me awe-struck when I read it!

I am very sorry that things degenerated to what they did in that thread and in a couple of "others" that were "touched" by this event.

There are many things here, especially when it does not concern members, that is better left unsaid....they belong and should, rightly so, stay with the staff/moderators......but seeking minds always inquire and sometimes tend to step on toes. Yesterdays thread was one....but frustration or whatever always tends to raise it's ugly head.....I am saddened to have seen what I did yesterday.....on many accounts.


regards
seekerof

hey William, nice Avatar. I used that very same photo yesterday. I like the animation..I reckon. Umm hmm.

[Edited on 10/16/2003 by Venus]

[Edited on 10/16/2003 by Venus]

Was a sad day..

Now, lets move on!



There still are many things to learn, secrets to unveil..



Btw, i think that ATS should have a temp ban for lets say for 24h for anybody that is attacking / insulting other users..

That way.. we would have much less of these 'fights'..

And belive me when i say: I DONT LIKE THESE FIGHTS!!!

Well, I have invited admin to post thier side of things...

As far as the justification for suppressing all discussions on Whispers on the basis of not discussing hackers, that is a complete untruth as regards to my proposed project. My project was specifically going to deal with current real-world events in comparison to Whispers posts. I was NOT going to discuss the possibility of him being real vs being a hacker, and certainly was not going to discuss any kind of board exploitation.

A simple critical analysis of current events was the plan on this.

And it got me demodded.

Figure that out.

As far as me taking great pride in disrupting the board, I dispute that. Yesterday was an extremely stressful day, as I HAD dropped the subject (under protest, but I had let it go) until William specifically U2Ued me with an ultimatum about "are you with us or against us" and "accept Whispers as a hoax".

My response was very truthful and straight forward. Am I for or against you? I said I was always for the website, and had never intentionally done anything to its detriment. Do I accept Whispers as a hoax? No. I have my own beliefs on it, and I was not willing to compromise my own values or integrity to appease anyone for any reason.

As far as the thread speculating the possibility that ATS may be a COINTELPRO, I see a very emotional response, but not much in the way of logical rebuttal. On an emotional level, I apologize if I offended you in any way. However, I believe the logic I cited to be valid and legitimate.

If you would like to dispute this on a logical and scientific level, I would like very much to challenge you to a debate on the subject.

As far as whether or not I should have kept this subject in private, I would remind you that I did in fact attempt to do this... I posted a thread in cosmic for 3 days straight, asking for dialouge on the subject from you and Simon. I U2Ued and emailed both of you numerous times. I proposed completely dropping the subject, if I only got some input from someone. I did everything short of firing trip flares to get your attention and discuss the matter.

I did not get any significant responses.

Therefore, that arguement is invalid.

William, as has been hinted by numerous other members, I am sorry to say, but a good deal of the board paranoia and lack of trust of yourself, you bring on yourself.

Consider that a subject as far reaching and widely discussed as Whispers, when you simply shove it under the rug, delete all posts on the subject, and become very ardent about "it didnt happen" and penalize those who are still discussing it, that tends to raise suspicions. If you fail to see that hiding information on a very controversial subject only breeds paranoia and suspicion, you dont have a very solid grasp of the human psyche.

As far as my take on Deny Ignorance?

No comment.

Or,

We should have the visible warnings back..

That way people would think before posting..

To be honest William, it happened so many things in this board ,regarding people that are pretty smart interesting and truth seekers, well, i�ve seen the best posters on ATS get banned, and idiots talking about stupid chat things stay, and this is a conspiracy board, i do say this because of the situation, otherwise i wouldn�t even bother the board giving my opinion, but after this, and after what DR has done for this community i can�t stay silent.

I mean Let�s get realistic, tyler, tutut, freemason (even him that bothered so much everybody had sometimes something smart to say), phoenix_cross, echelon, Abraham Virtue...

Those people were really interesting, they were getting close to know much more than 90% of this board, and they were not that bad to get banned (i know people here deserves to be kicked and they still here, and they have nothing to give to ATS...)

ATS after a while has become, more comercial, more stetical, more shallow, and the disscussions are not as interesting as before (and i�ve asked members here and they agree with me on that point).

So something must happened to change a Forum that much, have you got any idea about what is that?

Another thing about the "W" person, is that For Dr, that was very interesting thing to search (and i hope stills), and i don�t need to remind you william the file i had about the screenshot..... (if he was a hacker, he must be one of the bests ones i�ve ever seen to do that...)

I understand DR positions, as u are skeptic, he is starting to loose trust on ATS, as i did time ago, and more members are doing, and is not because of the admins or mods, there is certain things you can�t manipulate, and unluckily those things are ruining the whole site (believe it or not).

I hope this gets fixxed otherwise this board is going to change a lot more...

Originally posted by CoLD aNGeR
I mean Let�s get realistic, tyler, tutut, freemason (even him that bothered so much everybody had sometimes something smart to say), phoenix_cross, echelon, Abraham Virtue...

In each case, these people were banned not for what they say about our topics, but for how they behave toward other members and/or go against Simon's Terms of Use. You'd be surprised to know that Tyler is here, he's been allowed back, and he's doing quite well. As are other personas believed to be banned.

It just seems anymore that it's too easy for too many members to get caught up in fabricating non-existent fictional mystery about the complex behind-the-scenes operations of this site... rather than focus on world events and the reasons they came here in the first place.

rather than focus on world events and the reasons they came here in the first place.

Strange...

That seems to be what got me demodded...

Well for one thank you William for posting your side of things. I have no real idea what the scandal was about - having only read a few W posts and reading into them what I could be botherd too.

Dragonrider has made many salient posts in my time on the board and Im glad he has chosen to remain here. However I do agree that the purpose of this board is clearly stated and all efforts should be taken to keep the discussions on track.

With any growing community there are bound to be ocassions when the ruling elite and the members come into conflict - I have seen it many times in real life - Student Union, User Groups, board level discussions in corporate business. But if the people concerned can resolve their differences without mud slinging - eventually I think the realisation dawns - they are both here for the same reason and that is the reason the community exists.

Perhaps in these times of heightened paranoia things may get out of perspective and blown out of proportion. In the end however I agree that this is Simons board - and we all have a choice - if something is said that we dont agree with then simply dont click on that bookmark.

I participate on another board to do with guitars - and the owners attitude is simply - this is MINE - if you dont like what I do - TOUGH. I think the mods/admin show a great deal of patience and obviously commit a huge ammount of unpaid time to this community - and if they wanted they could simply shut down and let all that goodwill go away.

I will echo Williams sentiments - perhaps its a good idea to let this lie - and perhaps its a good idea to take stock of the perceptions and opinions we receive on this board before leaping into the fray.

Lets face it - the internet is a relativly new medium - if this was the 19th Century and you had to write a letter rather than type and click perhaps the speed with which these "bust ups" happened would be slower or more considered.

I for one will refrain from choosing sides - I would rather Simon and William et al carry on doing a great job and that DragonRider continues to participate here. All have equal value in my eyes - and there are bigger issues at stake here than a discussion of this nature.

FWIW

Silk

(open to U2Us if anyone wishes to discuss this attitude with me)

this place is a 24/7 drama bomb.

I totally disagree that this board is going downhill.

It's growing pains, continual re-invention of itself will only fuel more interest in it.

And as more people in diversity come to this board, it's inevitable that there is more evolution not the reverse.

With due respect to older members who are use to a certain status quo concerning this board, it can't stay the same if the goal is to attract a wider audience and for the evolution of the board to continue.

Without that, the board will certainly stagnate in the comfort of a few who refuse to change & evolve with the times.

The board is not going downhill.
We just hit some roadworks thats all

If you are new here then it might seem a shock and a worry, but for those who have been around for a while its not bad.

Remember when we kicked Ycon and AV? Same situation occured, same disruption and in a couple of days order was resumed.

Posters have very short emotive memories, so give it a week or 2 and we will have forgotten about the incident.

Sometimes this place needs a piping hot cup of Shut the # up.

other time's it is the best.

This is all i have to say.

William thank you for clearing this up, I can now see what realy happend yesterday and why.