Russians claim bomber flights over US territory went undetected

Anyone ready this story?



I'm amazed the Russians had the balls to even try this
They flew over the artic, so that might explain they went undetected, although there are radar stations out there.
Does anyone know more about the upgrades of the TU-160?

Interesting read... although I cannot find any other reports to substantiate the claims...

How would Russia know "They were unable to detect the aircraft either with radars or visually"? - Spies? Did the U.S. military say "Hey, we didn't see anything, so the Russian's must have flown through here..."? Just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

I would think if this were true, there should be more reports from other sources, either Russian sources supporting it, or U.S. sources denying the reports...

Its not so surprising that it could happen, I am surprised if it DID happen though.

What I mean is, the Russians have carried out these types of incursions regularly for decades, not only with the USA either. There is a lovely photo of an RAF Lightning in formation with a Tu-95 and one of the Russian crew members is seen grinning out through the transparent blister near the tail with a thermos flask in one hand and flicking 'V's at the Lightning pilot with the other, I love that picture

I had assumed though that this activity ceased when the Soviet Union collapsed, maybe not then.

As to how they would know, historically, each and every flight that was detected was met by a fighter escort (ie the Lightning story above), therefore the absence of any fighters is what would tell them they hadn't been detected.

Maybe they did stop but just restarted again and the US has become complacent with its attention turned towardsa the middle east? Who knows.

Interesting story though, if the USAF has become complacent then America should say 'thank you' to the Russians for waking them up again.



edit; just seen the tag someone added. A plane being missed by the defenders does not make it stealthy you know. It happens all the time

[edit on 24-4-2006 by waynos]

Originally posted by waynos

edit; just seen the tag someone added. A plane being missed by the defenders does not make it stealthy you know. It happens all the time

Yeah, I doubt the TU-160 is that stealthy, which is why I asked if anyone knows more about the upgrade program.

What I find fascinating about this report -- if true -- is that the Russians would even try to do something like this. Actions like this are more in line with "Cold War" provocative activity, NOT peace time, friendly coexistence.

What are the Russians trying to accomplish by deliberately entering US airspace? They openly admit that this was planned and deliberate. If anything, they should be apologizing for such actions NOT "bragging" about it.

Perhaps it's time to reconsider our new-found "friendship" with Russia and Putin's motives. This definitely sounds as if Russia is trying to add some more fuel to a global fire that is already burning and barely contained.

Originally posted by benevolent tyrant
If anything, they should be apologizing for such actions NOT "bragging" about it.

Bragging is what they love to do. For example, they are constantly claiming their new nuclear warheads are no match for the BMDS (missile defense shield).
Over the weekend they did another test, and today they released this statement: Russian ballistic missiles to be equipped with new warhead.

From my very limited knowledge of military hardware, do the pilots not have access to a detector which tells them when radar has locked onto them? Not just the guided weapons system of an enemy aircraft, but ground or AWACS stations too?

I would imagine that, since their equipment did not show them to be 'pinged', they are claiming a successful incursion.

hmm, can someone close this thread, I just noticed this was already posted earlier, here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Zion Mainframe
Yeah, I doubt the TU-160 is that stealthy, which is why I asked if anyone knows more about the upgrade program.

It is most certainly not stealthy. Some of the upgrades may be helping, but it is a far cry from a 'stealth bomber' - I suppose it may be the closest thing Russia has right now, though.


External Source - Information about the Tu-160

The Russian Air Force is planning a limited upgrade for the Tu-160 fleet. The first stage of the upgrade will equip the aircraft with the conventional armed Kh-101 and Kh-555 cruise missiles, as well as the new Sigma fire control system for these missiles. The Tu-160 will carry up to 12 of the Kh-101, which uses a electro-optical terminal homing system. The Kh-555 is a reworked Kh-55SM, which uses the Kh-101 homing system and replaces the nuclear warhead with a conventional one. The Tu-160 upgrade also adds the Kh-102 strategic missile, medium range subsonic Kh-SD and the Kh-41 medium range supersonic weapon. Other upgrades include navigation, communication and self-defence systems. The upgrades, carried out by KAPO at Kazan, extend the service life of the Tu-160 until at least 2020-2025. The first two Tu-160 bombers carrying conventional cruise missiles will be stationed at the Air Force base near Engels in the Saratov region in 2005.

In the original article, they mention that Russian has dropped most of the stealth upgrades because of cost. This would seem to confirm that.

I believe it completely & why not ?
The Russians from way back have always been up there technology wise & have constructd both in the black & white Worlds numerous amazing aircraft. Can you imagine if this is what they make public the things they have done that are not .
Don't believe all you read in the media stealth wise its just an illusion, the Russians have control of a steatlh technology the we have yet to grasp.

Originally posted by Primary Mover
Don't believe all you read in the media stealth wise its just an illusion, the Russians have control of a steatlh technology the we have yet to grasp.

No offense intended, but can you tell me why I should believe your post over multiple media sources? Perhaps you have a source you could tell us about that would substantiate the claim that "Russians have control of a steatlh technology the we have yet to grasp".... (By 'we', should I assume you mean the United States, all of humanity, or what?)

I'm open to believe that Russia has more advanced technologies than the United States, but I would like to see some evidence.

Originally posted by cohiba

I'm open to believe that Russia has more advanced technologies than the United States, but I would like to see some evidence.

Are you limiting the want of evidence to stealth or are you generalising this to a broader perspective, i.e. all military/scientific tech?

Originally posted by Daedalus3

Originally posted by cohiba

I'm open to believe that Russia has more advanced technologies than the United States, but I would like to see some evidence.

Are you limiting the want of evidence to stealth or are you generalising this to a broader perspective, i.e. all military/scientific tech?

Well, the claim was "the Russians have control of a steatlh technology the we have yet to grasp." so I would have to say it should be limited to stealth technology, as that is the claim, and closer to the topic of the thread...

But the thread is not about stealth technology at all. It is about some bombers managing to stay undetected, or do you assume that this is only possible with use of stealth technology? It is much more likely that it was achieved through simple human or mechanical fallibity on the part of NORAD plus maybe some expert planning and flying by the Russians.

Originally posted by waynos
But the thread is not about stealth technology at all.

Hence why I said 'closer to the topic'

It is about some bombers managing to stay undetected, or do you assume that this is only possible with use of stealth technology?

I assume nothing. I doubt the validity of the claim this happened at all. If it did happen, I would most certainly tend to lean in the direction of human and/or mechanical error as an explanation.

It is much more likely that it was achieved through simple human or mechanical fallibity on the part of NORAD plus maybe some expert planning and flying by the Russians.

If it happened...

Russia has always been on the edge of things. Now with new friends in Asia they are tempted by what they offer aswell. Being America we should always be on alert because we are the world's police/bullies. We should have learned the lesson already about other nations and how much they hate us. If the U.S. hasn't upgraded their radar systems....they better do so now. Damn BUSH!

Scratch one for plasma stealth?



Its possible isn't it....

Originally posted by kilcoo316
Scratch one for plasma stealth?

Its possible isn't it....

Open skies treaty of 2002 related? en.rian.ru...

Could just be the Russian press playing up a related flight but then their not supposed to fly Blackjack's around that area in my opinion. If not that it's probably related to Plasma stealth and considering the size of that beast i am sure they could do more than 'bolt it on' like they have been claiming they can do,since the late 90's, for Mig's/Su's of various flavours.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Anyways!

Stellar

Originally posted by cohiba

I assume nothing. I doubt the validity of the claim this happened at all. If it did happen, I would most certainly tend to lean in the direction of human and/or mechanical error as an explanation.

If it happened...

Indeed.. validity of sources is always a problem we deal with on these Fora. But why would you lean only in the direction of human error and not human ingenuity?
Either is possible IMHO and we do not even need to include the 'what ifs' plasma stealth etc. etc..

Sorry, but I have my suspisions! First of all there is Top Rock. Top Rock is the Code Name for the Alaskan NORAD command center. That entire area has it's own Air Defense Network. Second, since 9/11 NORAD has maintain a hightened alert. Third, If the Russian really did this, I doubt that they would so openly admit to it. Remember, Entering another nation's soverign airspace with a military aircraft without authorization is an act of provocation. Why do you think the U-2 incident of 1960 was such a huge issue? Something about the fact that the Russians supposedly did this and then openly admitted it, doesn't feel right!

Why would they do this and then Rush to tell the world that they intentional Ignored International Law about Soverign Airspace! If there was even the sightest hint of truth in the clame, the Russian Government just won a hell of a dangerous game if international game of chicken!

It all just doesn't feel right! Propaganda maybe?!

Tim