Muslims - Moderate or fanatical in disguise?

Disclaimer: This thread is started with the best of intentions.

I saw an article on the news last night ( Australia here ) about a man that has done wiretapping on some of the figureheads of the muslim communities around the world, those whom are outwardly moderate, yet found to be secretly promoting the extremist sides of things.
It's well known that this religion does promote being 2 faced in order to achieve their goals. It is acceptable to lie for the cause of jihad.
When people say that the % of extremist muslims is quite low, i want to know: How many are sleepers, ready to be called upon when the time is ready? How many appear moderate but are not?

Originally posted by T0by
Disclaimer: This thread is started with the best of intentions.

And what might those be?

It's well known that this religion does promote being 2 faced in order to achieve their goals.

Got any sources on this well-known piece of information?

When people say that the % of extremist muslims is quite low, i want to know: How many are sleepers, ready to be called upon when the time is ready? How many appear moderate but are not?

Toby, Trying to instill a little paranoia, there? It seems to me that your intent might be to contribute to the anti-Muslim sentiment that exists in the world. Correct me if I'm wrong. But how can speculating about something that you have no way of knowing, do any good whatsoever?

Originally posted by T0by
Disclaimer: This thread is started with the best of intentions.
................

Word of advice. Don't worry that much. There are around 1 Billion Muslims in this planet. Most of them just want to get on with their daily lives. Similar with the rest of the world.

All these fears are caused by our popular media networks, going after ratings, causing Fear of Islam in the West. And the Fear of the West amount Muslims.

Open ourselves up a little. In the end of the day, there ain't really any fears.

Just people sowing them for POWER, MONEY and CONTROL.

In answer to your question, I don't know.

I think the scale of the problem is nowhere near as large as some hawks would have us believe. When you look at deaths caused by terrorism, compared to every other conceivable inconvenience of modern living, the obvious tactic should be to pour money into making things like automobiles and refrigerators safer.

I'm a big fan of isolationism in response to international terrorism. We have more than enough military resources to trounce anyone trying to invade, and if we didn't spend so many billions dropping bombs on huts, creating extremists, then we would have money and resources for other, more pressing problems besides religious extremism.

I dont trust anyone born and raised in the ME..

Every country has there issues but these people are crazy.


As far as western born and raised muslims, well i trust them about as much as i trust anyone one else...

[edit on 20-2-2006 by C0le]

When I say most Muslims arent moderate I am referring to the Muslim demographic aged 15-50, I firmly believe with the right inspiration like the Muhammed cartoons this so-called peaceful Muslim population will rise up in Jihad and try to kill. So we need to hunt any and all potential threats, we also need to use deadly force at thes riots to enforce order on these Muslims.....I would give the police the right to shoot to kill if the crowd became violent. I havnt seen any Muslim uprising in the USA because they know if they do they would be lynched, they represent less than 1% of the US population.

Originally posted by beaburt
I firmly believe with the right inspiration like the Muhammed cartoons this so-called peaceful Muslim population will rise up in Jihad and try to kill.

With the "right inspiration", any group of people would rise up and fight to kill.

So we need to hunt any and all potential threats,

What? Potential threats? Do you mean all Muslims 15-50, then?

(mod edit, fixed quote tag)


[edit on 21-2-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

An entry on why they will lie, and gives many examples.
ussneverdock.blogspot.com...

Things like these can be obtained from many credible sources from the net.
So lets assume they can and do lie, as it is acceptable to their faith in certain situations.

I'm not giving the crazies an excuse to say kill all muslims of course.
I just ponder on the extent of the sleeping extremists out there.
I mean 20% of the worlds population is ALOT. I'm sure the % of extremists is quite low in the % range anyhow. But what does this % turn into in actual numbers.
I'm not trying to instill paranoia, only asking logical questions about this problem.

Quite a few if you ask me % wise, also letting in the enemy into our western country's as sleepers is dangerous and now you say that the more i think it could be true, just look at riots l8ly in past few years by Muslims, they know when they got enough in numbers they can riot in fair safety cause those goverments know it could get worse, what did France do to those Muslim riots that spread quickly, that there should tell us that they are more organised as a religeon and fanatic ways than we actually think.

Say for example they are sending sleepers to western country's that would be like a mini army in someplaces as there are lots of them in some country's, we should start deporting some back to middle east and block our boarders to new ME people let them stay in ME where their religeon is followed to the letter.

If any Muslims start rioting in WEST they should be dealt with lethal force in my opinion as it would help quash the problem faster, than if it wasnt quashed it would send a sign out to other muslims thats yer its ok the west is stupid and lets us get our way and they fear us.

What if some people in the WEST thought one day lets go terror bomb the ME and jihaad em and put $$$$ on certain ME muslims heads, how would the muslims react to that i wonder?

AS for those muslims putting out those bountys why doesnt Denmark put bountys on their heads too and see who is first to win.

Fanatical in disguise. The Moslem next to you, if he follows the Koran, hates you. You are not part of his religious belief, therefore there is no need for you. He would just assume kill you than let you pollute the Moslem world with your western views. Yes, the Moslem world, for that is how they envision it since according to their teachings, they deserve and need to control the world for Islam.

Al-qeada is a growing ideology that is embraced by the radilcas and hardline Moslems. Al-qeada will be remembered as those who started the war with the West in future history books, unless China gets to rewrite them.

My views are also not based on the hatemongering CNN/FOxnew TV. Pick up a book on Islam or the history of Moslems, and read how they created a religion and took over the world in 100 years.

Originally posted by T0by
An entry on why they will lie, and gives many examples.
ussneverdock.blogspot.com...

This blatantly Anti-Muslim Blog is your credible source?

So lets assume they can and do lie, as it is acceptable to their faith in certain situations.

I will not. I will not assume this any more than I will assume that black people are criminals, or that Jews are cheap or that gay people are promiscuous or that white men are rapists. That's prejudice and bigotry and I will not play.

I'm not trying to instill paranoia, only asking logical questions about this problem.

Guess what? I don't believe you.

This thread, in my opinion, is nothing more than an excuse to rally fear and hatred against an entire group of people based on erroneous 'information' and ignorance.

Originally posted by beaburt
When I say most Muslims arent moderate I am referring to the Muslim demographic aged 15-50, ....

I don't think this is a fair statement.
Certainly, the Muslims we see in the news clips are in that age range. That does NOT mean that most Muslims in the 15-50 age range are radical.

Just as the anti-war movement during the 60s-70s attracted the young, one could not say all youth during that time wanted to overthrow the US government.

Such sweeping generalizations are a dangerours path to follow!!!!!
Mod Note: "Broad Brush Bashing" on ATS-Please Review

Just a gentle reminder here, we should take care not to lump together whole groups to demonize. I refer you to the recent post by Springer, the section added on 2-19-2006:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Please, deny ignorance!




[edit on 21-2-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

This is the biggest collection of stupid people I have found of this whole site folks. Humpster, BH, and Donttreadonme are the only reasonable, intelligent people on here.

If you goons hate Muslims, and are so convinced that they hate you, then why arent you in the Mideast doing the "civilized" world a favor? Go hunt some Muslims. You are only adding fuel to a fire that was started by the same groups of people that only seek to control every aspect of your life. Use your brain!

Jealous of our freedom? Is that why they hate us? Because the Koran says so? I have a couple Muslim friends and they will be the first to tell you that Islam teaches to be decent, and respectful, unless you are unjustly provoked. #, I am a christian and I feel the same way. Your views on this thread are that unjust provacation.

It is hard to be perceived as a peaceful people when the whole western world has been duped into believing you are all evil. How many of you are Christian? I urge you to read the Koran. Read what it says about Christians.

Or you can turn on Fox News, and keep giving yourself a boner. Daydreaming about killing a fellow human being because they just plain dont like you....you are all COWARDS AND FOOLS.

Ill take the warning here mods.

Originally posted by blobby
What if some people in the WEST thought one day lets go terror bomb the ME and jihaad em and put $$$$ on certain ME muslims heads, how would the muslims react to that i wonder?

AS for those muslims putting out those bountys why doesnt Denmark put bountys on their heads too and see who is first to win.

You mean like bombing the hell out of Iraq? or putting million $$ rewards on terrorists your own goverments created?

Funny how you say the Muslims are extremists, when you are suggesting killing cwords of unarmed people for breaking windows and starting fires.. The only real difference i see is the Muslims are standing up and fighting for what they believe in, while people like you only hide behind the internet or newspapers trying to incite things further. Go to Iraq and quit being a coward if you lust for blood of innocence so much.

Let the chilling begin!

Hm quite surprised at the reactions here, it's interesting.
Unfortunately some of the people not saying i'm trying to instill paranoia are the ones saying we should use 'lethal force' on them if they riot.
It is not as black and white as this.

For those of you going off your rockers saying I hate muslims etc, lets stick to the facts about what i said and didn't say. For the record i know the majority are very nice people. The topic here is not them. It is the % of them who are not that i'm concerned about.
In fact most of you are just churning out the regular assumptions some people make when they bring forth any race or religion for questioning.
I do not watch regular news much at all, i do not hate muslims, and who ever mentioned jealous of our freedoms?

No that is not my only source of course, it is just one example to show there are sources out there to support this view. I'm surprised how many people do not know of this common belief? Perhaps it is a belief only taken up by the extremists anyhow.

Do a peaceful people take to the streets and riot in multiple countries because of a cartoon? Holding up extremely hateful banners?
Lets not forget the paris riots.
Riots riots and more riots, banners, torching flags....

And i am too tired to say after every sentence 'and by this i mean not every muslim person, just a fraction' do i really have to do that.

The questions put forth in the opening post are simple, can we please stick to some logic, i asked for data or theories on how many muslims would participate in a jihad against the west if called upon. Simple.
If you are not familiar with the basic rules of the koran and ideologies, you should not be here, leave your hate for people that you THINK hate others for another thread.

An ICM poll published here in the UK yesterday said that "80 % of UK Muslims want sharia law passed here in the UK, and the remaining 20 % support it use in mainly Muslim areas in the UK"

Theres not a moderate amongst them. If your a women, gay, Jew or any other religion bar Islam, like a beer or watching porn (Not for every one but not illegal) like watching telly or going out in a T-shirt, Islam is the worst enemy you will ever face. Its unbending, viciouse, abusive and very very violent. I worked in Saudi for a while in 2002, and I have never ever seen a country like it. There of a primative stone age mentality with no rational thought of their own. I was actually glad to terminate my contract early and come home, because once you see what no hands does to a persons life, or a women flogged half to death for wearing nail varnish you never will see them in the same light.

heres a thoughtv - They came to the west to be free, yet brought with them all of their oppressive racist homophobic retoric with them - Gee they sure want to be free...... Not.

Originally posted by MadGreebo
An ICM poll published here in the UK yesterday said that "80 % of UK Muslims want sharia law passed here in the UK, and the remaining 20 % support it use in mainly Muslim areas in the UK"

Do you have a link for this information? And how many people does that represent when compared to the population of the UK?

Because 95% of Snake Handlers in the US want it to be a law here that we have to handle snakes. (Not real data - Just making a point)

And there are things I want, too. I want certain laws passed here, but that doesn't mean I'm an extremist or that I will kill someone to make it happen...

Edit:

ICM Poll

A sweeping majority of 91 percent of British Muslims are "loyal" to Britain and 80 percent still want to live in and accept Western society, a new poll showed on Sunday, February 19.

[edit on 21-2-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]

SAUDI ARABIA IS NOT AN ISLAMIC COUNTRY!!! All these so-called "terrorists" were created by the US government! They only want our oil! It is really cannot BE more obvious. How can you judge approximately 1/6th of the world's population by watching the corrupt FOX or MSNBC news channels? WAKE UP Americans, get out from behind your TV screens, explore the world beyond Wal-Mart and Bush's grammar-error-plagued "freedom" speeches and take a look at REALITY! Actually try to read something other than a McDonalds menu for once! Again i say WAKE UP!!! You do not understand Islam and you never will unless you try! What is WRONG with you? And you say WE are the extremists? You are an entire nation that actually believes the lies your goverment spews. Now that is SMART, man! Americans are the learned world's source of comedy. You would know that already if you actually knew there was a world beyond the "free" America. i would suggest taking geography lessons first in order to actually know what continent the ME is on! thanks, Hiddenreality, now i know that there are some of you who have explored the exotic locations that lie behind the local Sav-on.