Chinese Discover America 80 Years Before Columbus?

China is about to unviel a map it claims to be proof that the Chinese discovered the new world eight decades before columbus. The map is supposedly a 1763 copy of an earlier map drawn in 1418.



This is definitely quite the conspiracy. The question is, who's conspiracy is it? The Europeans for falsely claiming to be the first to discover the new world? Or the Chinese for possibly trying to prove their superiority over the rest of the world with what may be a fake map? Test results are due in February on the date of the map, but if proven to be authentic the question will still remain, is it indeed a copy of a 1418 map, or a hoax?

It should be noted the vikings discovered America about 400 to 500 years before either one of these groups, which places arguing over second place kind of in a trivial light.

Originally posted by Valhall
It should be noted the vikings discovered America about 400 to 500 years before either one of these groups, which places arguing over second place kind of in a trivial light.

Indeed. And the Romans beofere them. And the Pheonecians before the Romans. I've even read that some ancient olmec art resembles ancient indian/oriental art...although I can't remember where I read that. It was probably a way off speculation anyway.

In anycase...I forgot now....

Oh yeah. Columbus knew America was here, since he had access to old maps that told of a huge continent. I think it was a copy of an old Ptolomeic map...I forget now.

well, the vikings are the only ones proven to have been here. although, i have no doubt that the romans, pheonicians, etc made it here long before anyone else.

columbus had no idea the americas were there. he thought he would be able to go straight across the atlantic to east asia. hence his naming of the native americans as "indians." he thought he was in asia and didnt realize his error until some time later (dont feel like looking it up right now, but i think it was the second trip).

edited for typos


[edit on 14-1-2006 by snafu7700]

Originally posted by Valhall
It should be noted the vikings discovered America about 400 to 500 years before either one of these groups, which places arguing over second place kind of in a trivial light.

which is why i said "the europeans for falsely claiming to be first"

I dunno, I understand that the European discovery is a pretty big deal, but I still find it hard to call it a "discovery" when there's quite a number of civilizations hanging around. That'd be like me driving up I-5 and saying I discovered Seattle.

Can't people just agree that the various people who walked across the land bridge (or how ever they arrived) discovered the Americas first? If you're wanting to argue aside from there, then you might as well break it up into time periods and cultures--the Vikings were the first (quasi)modern Europeans to discover the New World; Columbus was the first European to discover the Americas after the dark ages. If this map holds true, the Chinese were the first modern Asians to discover the new world, although the first Asians were already here.

Everyone already knows that Columbus was not the first human being to reach the "New World." The ancestors of the Indians walked over. The Vikings rowed over and perhaps even the South Sea Islanders and the Asians got here, to boot.

The reason that Columbus gets all the credit is that for some reason, everyone else who got here managed to keep it a secret and nothing much ever came of it. Columbus made history because when he got here, he went back and told somebody and brought some folks back with him. The world has never been the same since, for better or worse.

I don't know why this is so hard for some to understand.

Even though Colombus wasn't the first to discover America, he was still the first to convince the Europeans that the world wasn't flat. And may I point out that he always thought that he was in India ( or so it says in Wikipedea ).

I remember in our history books back in the 7th grade where we were taught that America was NOT discovered by Colombus but by Amerigo Vespucci, and that's where the name came from.

Columbus is seen to have discovered America because after his voyage there was sustained contact with the New World, changing Europe forever.

And as for the map, its probaby too early, and having looked at it on the BBC website i'd say its not up to the standards of Chinese maps at the time, so its probably a fake inspires by '1421, the year China discovered the world'

Originally posted by Doku
I remember in our history books back in the 7th grade where we were taught that America was NOT discovered by Colombus but by Amerigo Vespucci, and that's where the name came from.

I think your a little confused about Vespucci's role in the exploration of the New World. In my day, it was not claimed that Vespucci discovered America and it doesn't appear that anyone is making that claim today.

Amerigo Vespucci

[edit on 2006/1/14 by GradyPhilpott]

Roman coins have been found in New England...

-- Boat

Actually Colombus didn't got credit for it either, Americo Vespucci did Colombus die destitude and obscure.

Later he was granted the discovery of the New World after death.

Sad story.

I agree that many came to these shores before the Spanish did.

A story passed down to me from my grandfather, who came over here from Norway. Says that his family, tells a story of how the Vikings from Norway, and Sweden, knew of North America. The reason why it was kept a secret from the rest of the world was because it was a paradise, unspoiled by western civilization. Same goes for the other folks who kept it a secret, and also no one would beleive em. For all those years until Columbus told the King and Queen of Spain about it, and from then on they were in it for greed. Greedy Spainards. That is the story, believe it or not.

[edit on 14-1-2006 by Harvestfreak]

My great-great grandfather and his wife came from Norway. So, is what you're saying is that the "New World" was a kind of exotic getaway for extremely adventurous Scandanavians before the greedy Spaniards got wind of it? I think there might be an element of truth in that, but one must also consider the state of culture and technology by the time the fifteenth century rolled around.

There's plenty of speculation that the Templars had made the journey to the Americas as well. Oak Island is just one of a number of hints that this was so. Their fleet, which was the largest in the world, scattered to parts unknown early in the 14th century...over 150 years before Columbus

The Templars had a close relationship with Eskil, the Danish archbishop of Lund in 1137 when they helped them quell the pagan Wends of Estonia and Lithuania, which had been raiding along the Danish coast.

It would seem logical that those amazingly adept navigators, the Templars, would have checked out the stories they heard about America.
.

I find it 'interesting' that people are inclined to 'play down' what China did, and turn this into a 'pro-Viking' story. At the time of China's great fleets, what Europe had, looked like 'paddle boats', by comparison.

It seems there are also those who believe ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs, Hebrew writing and other archiological anomolies, have been found in Australia. Also at least one native Sth. American peoples, have been found to have a DNA cross between Africans and Australian Aboriginals.

I believe the importance of the current, "who discovered what, when", debates, is that they will show The Bible to have been written about, and for, the whole world, over all time, as it claims (remember it starts with the super-continant that didn't divide 'till Peleg's time) and not just some middle eastern story, set in a limited time frame in history.

I also believe this to behind the 'conspiracy' selling the standard, Western European version of world history.
If people honestly looked at the raisings and falls, of great cities and civilizations, around the world, throughout history, it would be alot harder not take the many Biblical mentionings of it, seriously, and see where the great movements of mankind will ultimately lead. This is something those opposed to God, don't want freely floating around in peoples minds.

Here's a link to one of the overviews of these 'anomolies'.
www.freerepublic.com...

[edit on 14-1-2006 by suzy ryan]

[edit on 14-1-2006 by suzy ryan]

Originally posted by Harvestfreak
A story passed down to me from my grandfather, who came over here from Norway. Says that his family, tells a story of how the Vikings from Norway, and Sweden, knew of North America. The reason why it was kept a secret from the rest of the world was because it was a paradise, unspoiled by western civilization. Same goes for the other folks who kept it a secret, and also no one would beleive em. For all those years until Columbus told the King and Queen of Spain about it, and from then on they were in it for greed. Greedy Spainards. That is the story, believe it or not.

[edit on 14-1-2006 by Harvestfreak]

Exaclty...Also, I would like to point out the Vikings probably had plans to do trading with the Natives for centuries, however, the small 'ice age' that helped kick off the bubonic plague put an end to that. Everything froze over and all contact was lost.

A paradise before the arrival of the Spaniards?

Do you really think that the Vikings (brutal savages from the north remember) would have left such a civilisation alone if they could? Plenty of rich farmland for a people who thrived on such conquest, their well oiled military machine would have carved kingdoms out of the tribes they found.

Every country in western Europe seems to have a legend that they found the US first, part of the posturing that made up 16thC politics.

The Chinese have a reasonable claim to going there first, but this map does not look the real deal to me, India is out of proportion to what the Chinese knew and Australia is too small. A fake.

Nobody cares who found what first. It doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is who conquers and colonized the land. When people say Columbus discovered America, what that really means is that his journey let the Europeans know that there was land across the ocean to be colonized. Columbus wasn’t even looking for a new uncharted land. He was looking for a new and quicker trade route to India and China, which he died believing that he had found.

You're right, zerotime. The History that the empire teaches us is ITS history. THe whole New World concept is based on eurocentric and supremacist ideas that Man has placed his first foot onto this continent with Christopher Columbus, and that all there was before were a bunch of "savages", subhumans or animals, litterally.

In fact there could have always been people here since the beginning of human history...