Project Serpo: Postings by "Anonymous" -- Breaking news?

Originally posted by Springer
Please don't misunderstand my point...

WELCOME to ATS by the way.

Springer...


[edit on 2-7-2006 by Springer]

Thanks for the welcome.

Some of the great researchers on here can intimidate some of the new members. I know I lurked for at least a month before I joined and contributed anything.

NOW, back on topic.....

[edit on 7-2-2006 by tek]

I'm also new.I must admit I was a little nervous to post here also

PLEASE do NOT be "nervous", intimidated or anything else, that's only going to serve the forces of ignorance.

YOU, by virtue of having enough interest in the world around you to even find ATS are as qualified to post here as anyone else in this Community.

When you allow (and obviously you two did NOT allow this since you are both posting ) these feelings to stop you from posting you deny the rest of us your unique perspective, yourknowledge, your insights, etc...

That situation perpetuates the continued ignorance of the above by the rest of us here.

Believe me, if I can post here and every once in a while add something to the conversation ANYONE CAN

Springer...


[edit on 2-7-2006 by Springer]

Originally posted by Fred_S
I'm also new.I must admit I was a little nervous to post here also

No need to be nervous! This is one big happy family here.


Of course, even the best families will have some fights at the dinner table.

Why do I feel like I am on ignore.

I laid out the connections, I told everyone as much as I could tell you. I said you would have your answers. I told Skeptic Overlord over the next few days from 1/31 to 2/7 he would get all the information he would need to see the deception.

I just dont understand. I told Shawnna she was being taken on an emotional roller coaster which thankfully snapped her back into reality. I told Centrists three days ago that he had fallen under Bill Ryan's subtle "tricks of the trade", which at first he scoffed at me. And I had made sure that I went back from the very begining looking at his change from Skeptic to Bill Ryan supporter to then snapping out of the "spell" if you will.

But again, apparently no one wanted to listen. I throw my hands in the air and said Bill Ryan is telling you BS. And oh how people said I was being vicisious. Bill Ryans little polite mind babble never would work on me.

SKMDC1 had some help putting pieces of the puzzle together (although he has the finger pointed at the wrong Bill for the origination of the story) and who helped him with the pieces.....

Anyways I guess some people want to believe more then to think about what is rational. Maybe I am just lucky in some aspect to see through garbage.

Val here is a tidbit for you to go look up

Valhall
The Divine Sibyl
Keeper of the Mystic Fish
Moderator

posted on 6-2-2006 at 09:27 PM Post Number: 1974886 (post id: 1996779) - printer friendly


Further to that, Victor (unless in the past few days) has never even read serpo.org. His response to that question "Why would I? I've already read everything there." (And he - in his own mind - had. Either directly from Anon or through the email list that Bill Ryan was submitting "his" Anon submissions to.)


A question was asked about the 2% ghost writers contribution, Bill Ryan said he would ask Victor and Victor apparently responded that he would look back through the data and get back to Bill. From which I hammered Bill and said if Victor deletes all his emails and does not save any emails then what data does he have to "look back through".

Bill's response was, Victor was going to read through the Serpo site to look for the bits that he might recall were added by the 2% writer. And I responded to Bill that seemed insane being the same 3,000+ words that we all can read how would Victor know which parts were which from were since (according to the information we have been provided) Victor took bits and pieces and combined them together to make posts. Without having the original emails to refer back to I would think it would be fairly impossible to give any sort of comment on being able to determine which information was coming from the 2% ghost writer given if the above situation is true.

The bottom line then is THAT EITHER VICTOR IS IN FACT NOT TELLING THE TRUTH AS WELL about reading or even looking at the Serpo.org website or that in fact Victor never gave any reponse to Bill Ryan in regards to searching for the 2% or Bill Ryan again lied to me about Victor response and method by which he was going to get Bill that information.

Like I said who do you really know is telling the truth.

Originally posted by Centrist
Victor has confided the identity of his source to me and out of respect for my confidence with Victor, I will retain that information to myself until either Victor or the source wish to identify themselves.

Originally posted by Centrist
MOST importantly, to those who will "close the book" on Serpo and write it off as a hoax -- stop. Take a step back. Take a deep breath. This is not over. In fact, it may only just be the beginning. We do not know. What I do know is that there are people of considerable knowledge in this field that are still watching intently to determine where the source of this information is coming from.

So you do know the identity of Anonymous? But you still sit on the fence. So the identity of Anon must not be jaw dropping.

Originally posted by Centrist
I don't know who "anon" is... but I'd like to have a word with him If he's for real (which he may well be, despite the strange photos that Bill published -- which, I remind you, were NOT what Anon asked to have published!).

Wait a minute, now you don't know who Anonymous is. Strange contradiction within a couple paragraphs of each other. Just an observation. Otherwise a great post!



[edit on 2/7/2006 by Jeddyhi]

Originally posted by Jeddyhi

Originally posted by Centrist
Victor has confided the identity of his source to me and out of respect for my confidence with Victor, I will retain that information to myself until either Victor or the source wish to identify themselves.

Originally posted by Centrist
MOST importantly, to those who will "close the book" on Serpo and write it off as a hoax -- stop. Take a step back. Take a deep breath. This is not over. In fact, it may only just be the beginning. We do not know. What I do know is that there are people of considerable knowledge in this field that are still watching intently to determine where the source of this information is coming from.

So you do know the identity of Anonymous? But you still sit on the fence. So the identity of Anon must not be jaw dropping.

Originally posted by Centrist
I don't know who "anon" is... but I'd like to have a word with him If he's for real (which he may well be, despite the strange photos that Bill published -- which, I remind you, were NOT what Anon asked to have published!).

Wait a minute, now you don't know who Anonymous is. Strange contradiction within a couple paragraphs of each other. Just an observation. Otherwise a great post!



[edit on 2/7/2006 by Jeddyhi]

Here - let me interpret for you. The first quote above by Centrist is stating he knows the source that Victor has used to vet his anonymous postings.

The second one is Centrist stating he does not know who Anonymous is.

[edit on 2-7-2006 by Valhall]

Robertfenix:

I would suggest this happended:

"Bill Ryan again lied to me about Victor response and method by which he was going to get Bill that information."

Cheers

JS

Thanks Valhall! It just seemed strange to me. As usual it was my reading skills. Thanks again!

Originally posted by robertfenix
SKMDC1 had some help putting pieces of the puzzle together (although he has the finger pointed at the wrong Bill for the origination of the story) and who helped him with the pieces.....

This is true. Robertfenix did help me with the pieces. After I posted my suspicions of the "similarities" between Bill Cooper's writings and the Serpo story (which I posted as something that helped the consistency of Serpo, btw), he pointed me toward the connections between Bill Cooper/Bill Hamilton/Scientology... which was at that point already connected to Bill Ryan. However, I haven't fingered any specific "Bill" for the originating the story... I've just stated it's one of the four. And I haven't fingered any single person as Anonymous, because there's obviously more than 1.

Valhall and others have stated conclusively that Bill Ryan is NOT Anonymous. However at the same time the big hulabaloo over the IP addresses was an attempt to reconcile Anon1 with Anon2? Is that right? Bill Ryan's refusal leads me to believe that there are indeed at least 2 separate Anons. That's almost a given, right? Even Victor assumes there are 2 separate Anons based on the interaction of Anon before and after post 11.

So, how do we know Bill Ryan is absolutely NOT Anon2? Or Anon3? Has there been any independent verification that the second Anon that contacted Victor for Post 11 is the same Anon who contacted Bill for Post 12? Or Post 15 for that matter? Or is that what the IP Address converstation was about, reconciling Victor Post 11 Anon with Ryan Post 12 Anon?

Originally posted by robertfenix
I laid out the connections, I told everyone as much as I could tell you. I said you would have your answers. I told Skeptic Overlord over the next few days from 1/31 to 2/7 he would get all the information he would need to see the deception.

You have no idea how many u2u's I get on a daily basis... and it doubled during the Serpo Affair!

I think I replied to a few of yours, and sent everything along to the research team (I wasn't always involved in the heat of it). Your information did provide interesting and informative pieces of the puzzle, and was helpful.

Now... I hear Mr. Ryan is speaking about Serpo at an upcoming UFO convention?

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by Fred_S
I'm also new.I must admit I was a little nervous to post here also

No need to be nervous! This is one big happy family here.


Of course, even the best families will have some fights at the dinner table.

Please keep your posts on topic it may be helpfull for you to read the ATS guidelines for big threads. Thank You.

Originally posted by Jeddyhi

Originally posted by Centrist
Victor has confided the identity of his source to me and out of respect for my confidence with Victor, I will retain that information to myself until either Victor or the source wish to identify themselves.

Originally posted by Centrist
MOST importantly, to those who will "close the book" on Serpo and write it off as a hoax -- stop. Take a step back. Take a deep breath. This is not over. In fact, it may only just be the beginning. We do not know. What I do know is that there are people of considerable knowledge in this field that are still watching intently to determine where the source of this information is coming from.

So you do know the identity of Anonymous? But you still sit on the fence. So the identity of Anon must not be jaw dropping.

Originally posted by Centrist
I don't know who "anon" is... but I'd like to have a word with him If he's for real (which he may well be, despite the strange photos that Bill published -- which, I remind you, were NOT what Anon asked to have published!).

Wait a minute, now you don't know who Anonymous is. Strange contradiction within a couple paragraphs of each other. Just an observation. Otherwise a great post!



[edit on 2/7/2006 by Jeddyhi]

This just proves how easily these type of misunderstandings can occur. I am sure it is exactly the same with Bill. I don't now why people were so keen to hound him out. Maybe the owners did not like the fact that he was getting more attention than them.

[edit on 7-2-2006 by alien hunter]

Well I also have only been here a couple weeks or so and only found out about the forum by a link from another forum on Project Serpo.
It appears this forum is much like other forums and if you don't have a high post count you're not one of them. I mostly enjoy dropping in when I have the time and try keeping up with what's going on. I will comment on a subject if I really think I can add something, or my feelings or beliefs on a subject. I've never been one to post something just trying to get points or the post count up.

Most of you guys seem to be very good people and I really enjoy reading the info and your thoughts on a subject. It appears that some get more out of trying to prove something is not on the up and up.........WHICH is fine but sometimes it takes everyone off topic and gets very boring. Like the Serpo story which the longer the thread grew the more it became a Soap Opera and got off track in a huge way.

Originally posted by alien hunter
This just proves how easily these type of misunderstandings can occur. I am sure it is exactly the same with Bill. I don't now why people were so keen to hound him out. Maybe the owners did not like the fact that he was getting more attention than them.

Yes, and the question was asked and promptly cleared up beyond all doubt. That's how this works. Nobody "hounded" Bill out. They were asking questions for clarifications and Bill's story started to fall apart. And then instead of clarifying any misunderstandings, in what appears to be a fit of drama, he left, claiming to be a wounded man.

Don't worry about Bill, though, he has a new audience on another board where the people are content to overlook the inconsistancies and holes in his story and hang on his every word, and above all, not ask those pesky questions! Not only that, they are all reveling in how terribly unfair, dishonest and snake-like ATS has been in this whole affair. They're even making up stuff that ATS has or hasn't done so that everyone can feel justified and warm about what's happened.

It's a feel-good ending.

[edit on 7-2-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by tek

Curiously enough though that one of the owners would comment on the new members not being around. I would think ATS would value the addition of new members and new blood into this or any other forum.

Not speaking for the owners but it was painfully obvious that a majority of the new members were here for the sole purpose of driving the serpo conversation. It seemed, at times, as if many of these new members were split into two camps and whenever the conversation was directed at a major issue (ip stuff for example) camp one would come and apologize for the member(s) trying to get an answer from Bill. Then another group would come in and bring up an inconsistency that really was meaningless in comparison to the more obivous flaws in the story. Suddenly, Bill would show up and respond to one or two of the posts and the glaring issue was a page or two behind and, effectively, forgotten for the time being.

So, when you say you figure the owners of a board would be happy with the influx of new members, sure they would, if they were here to join the community. The members everyone is talking about have vanished, or will vanish in the very near future. They posted only in threads regarding serpo and they will go away entirely once this is over.

Those new members are never going to become an integral part of the ATS community so you shouldn't be surprised when management asks "where are they now?"

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by alien hunter
This just proves how easily these type of misunderstandings can occur. I am sure it is exactly the same with Bill. I don't now why people were so keen to hound him out. Maybe the owners did not like the fact that he was getting more attention than them.

Yes, and the question was asked and promptly cleared up beyond all doubt. That's how this works.

Nobody "hounded" Bill out. They were asking questions for clarifications and Bill's story started to fall apart. And then instead of clarifying any misunderstandings, in what appears to be a fit of drama, he left, claiming to be a wounded man.

Don't worry about Bill, though, he has a new audience on another board where the people are content to overlook the inconsistancies and holes in his story and hang on his every word, and above all, not ask those pesky questions! Not only that, they are all reveling in how terribly unfair, dishonest and snake-like ATS has been in this whole affair.

It's a feel-good ending.

I see what your saying but Bill is probably very busy. I think he did his best to answer peoples questions. Why should he have to endure some kind of inquisition from the ATS mob. In the end he just got fed up and left because of the arrogance and aggressive behaviour of certain members of this forum. He nearly left over the Chapman situation and when he was falsely accussed of being a science fiction writer so it had been coming for some time and is hardly a surprise.

[edit on 7-2-2006 by alien hunter]

Originally posted by alien hunter
I see what your saying but Bill is probably very busy.

Have you read the posts linked at the top of the pages here about Serpt situation 1 and 2? Bill was busy, but not too busy to answer certain questions. He avoided others completely, which were then asked again, while he was on line, and he avoided them. Over and over again.

Why should he have to endure some kind of inquisition from the ATS mob.

He didn't have to. He was offered all kinds of options, like a private forum, a special thread with selective membership only. He insisted on an open thread, like this.

In the end he just got fed up and left because of the arrogance and aggressive behaviour of certain members of this forum.

Welcome to the Internet, Bill! I have visited LOTS of boards and this is the most diplomatic board I've seen. That's not to say that people don't get out of hand occassionally, we're human after all. But this was a situation where he was claiming something spectacular and that calls for spectacular examination and cross-examination. We want to believe! But we don't want to believe a lie.

This is the Internet. Lies abound. But the truth will stand up to examination.

He nearly left over the Chapman situation and when he was falsely accussed of being a science fiction writer so it had been coming for some time.

I've been falsely accused of things (much worse than being a sci-fi writer!) and I'm still here. I stood up to it. At any time, Bill had the opportunity to tell the admins here, "Hey, this isn't working and I'd like to try a different approach." But he didn't (Correct me if I'm wrong, here admins). In fact, Bill INSISTED the thread stay open, right here in the thread.

He is not a victim here any more than I am. He left because HE wanted to. And he can STILL come back and explain the issues.



[edit on 7-2-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by alien hunter

He nearly left over the Chapman situation and when he was falsely accussed of being a science fiction writer so it had been coming for some time and is hardly a surprise.

Correct me if I'm wrong , but Bill initially engaged and vouched for Chapman. When the whole Chapman saga erupted Bill was "apparently" unreachable. Yet when he shows up he posts this long post he said he was working on to discredit Chapman and Sepiansurfer.

Weird huh?

Originally posted by alien hunter
I see what your saying but Bill is probably very busy.

And on what do you base that?

Originally posted by alien hunter
I think he did his best to answer peoples questions.

The questions he wanted to answer. The others he ignored. The size and speed of the thread allowed that to continue far too long than otherwise would've been acceptable.

Originally posted by alien hunter
Why should he have to endure some kind of inquisition from the ATS mob.

Because he chose to be a messenger of extraordinary news, and with that comes an extraordinary responsibility for objectivity and transparency.

Originally posted by alien hunter
In the end he just got fed up and left because of the arrogance and aggressive behaviour of certain members of this forum.

No. In the end he left because he didn't want to do what was right. If he'd agreed to cooperate with Victor and the IP Address issue then he would've stayed. He refused to do so and therefore staying would've just meant page after page of him trying to justify a clearly non-productive choice on his part.

Originally posted by alien hunter
He nearly left over the Chapman situation

You know why? Because he nearly lost his credibility with the Chapman situation. If that issue had been pushed further he would've left. Now that his credibility has been publicly questioned he leaves.

Originally posted by alien hunter
and when he was falsely accussed of being a science fiction writer so it had been coming for some time and is hardly a surprise.

He was never accused of being a Science Fiction writer. He was asked if he was a Science Fiction writer. Once he stated he wasn't, the issue was dropped.