Demons or Angels, Good or Evil - Who decides?

Something I have thought about for a long time and this is the post that made me finally pose my question ....

original post by japike An alien is a demon for one.

Disconnect from yourself ane belive in one and you will see one.

The end of days is no doubt gonna involve aliens its the biggest trick of evil there is.

from this thread
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Can someone please explain to me why everything is evil or demons?? Is it automatic that anything you don’t understand becomes evil and/or demons? Is this something that is taught or is it an inherent part of some peoples nature?

If you have faith in God doesn’t it follow that if he created life here that he created life elsewhere and that while they might not give it the same name to him they can still believe in God.

And isn’t it also possible -- in that same light -- that no matter what name or method people worship -- when it comes down to it we are all meaning the same ultimate God.

And all the people who died before Christ -- what happened to them -- didn’t they go to heaven or did heaven begin with Christ?

Like I said things I have wondered about for a long time...

Not everything we don't understand is classed as evil, why do you think that? It would be more correct that everything we don't understand falls under the category of religion. Hey we don't understand how that works, so God mush have made it etc.

phixion it just seems to me that so many times when there is something that isn't understood if someone brings it up here there is immediately someone posting that it is evil or demons. I personally don't think it - which is why I am trying to understand why some people do think that way.

It is all down to you and the actions of the Angel/Demon.

For example, there is one Fallen Angel who showed human's how to invent things [good] but also how to make weapons [bad]. So people look at him as a demon. However it all boils down to your onw personnal view point.

Augustine of Hippo - a man who practiced every type of debauchery imaginable before hearing the Call and becoming one of the leading thinkers of the Catholic church - sums it up nicely in Confessions 3.7.12

I, in my ignorance, was much troubled,
and departing from the truth, seemed to myself to be making towards
it; because as yet I knew not that evil was nothing but a privation of good

The people of Mesopotamia also included demons in their pantheon. They believed in the influence of spirits that were both good and evil in nature. King Assurbanipal ordered his scribes to draft a great compendium on spirits, including charms and incantations to keep malicious spirits at bay. The characteristics of these spirits? Harmful, malicious entities with malign purposes. Similiarly, there were spells to summon good spirits to protect and defend the faithful.

Zoasterism features two powers. Ahura Mazda, the god of the Sun and Ahriman, the prince of darkness. A tenet of this faith is that these two powers war spiritually and physically - the latter struggle fought by adherents. The eventual winner is in doubt as good and evil, light and darkness fight for power. Again, we see the demons being a negative entity, incapable of creation, excelling only at destruction and corruption.

In Judaism, Angels and Celestial legions play a major role in Scripture. Their role sometimes may seem cruel, but the Old Testament reveals their goals to be for a greater good. Often, those placed in such predicaments are being set as an example or being taught a lesson. The Book of Tobias mentions Asmodeus, a demon prince. The Talmud and Midrashim contains a fair amount of an explaination on the role of demons.

The New Testament features demons extensively. Christ is recorded as casting out a number of demons who are afflicting people in dire ways - madness, pustules, boils, and other physical and spiritual afflictions. Never do we attribute any postive, constructive elements.

Even the temptation of Christ by Satan is something that is negative in nature. Nothing that Satan 'offered' Christ was a result of Satan's ability to create anything. It was blantantly an usurpation of God's creation.


In the Christian faith, demons are fallen angels who are driven by their desire to inflict the same torment they experience on the mortals who usurped their place in God's eyes. They seek to pervert and subvert Man - who in Genesis is created in God's own Image. To subvert man is a - futile - attempt to wreak harm on God himself.

Perhaps in another missal I will discuss angels in more detail.

Thanks for reading

Everyone has such great responses - thanks - but I have a feeling that I wasn’t clear in what I was asking or trying to say in my original post (unfortunately not an unusual thing for me)
Let’s see if I can make myself clearer...

Why is it that when someone brings up the subject of the following do people come up with the following conclusions.....

aliens/greys == demons
psychics = evil or demonic possession

anyone who believes in something different is not going to heaven or is evil or misguided --- can’t there be more than one way or one name to go in the same direction towards heaven/afterlife/salvation - why must only ONE way be THE way?

There are other examples I could give if I went thru some threads on here but I hope you get the idea that I am trying to put out there. Do people think about their responses to these things or are they just automatic responses that they have learned. Do they ever think there is another way to look at things or are people afraid to question things?

Once upon a time in a land far far away there was a goddess called Ma'et, the Goddess of truth justince and incidently.....the new world order........

Ma'et's particular position in the world of God's and Goddesses was unique, partnered to Thoth, the God of knowledge Ma'et weighed a man's heart on her scales with a feather as a counterbalance. It was said that honest and kind deeds performed by man would lighten his heart. Wicked deeds with nasty intent turned the heart black and dark and heavy.

Ma'et was worshipped by few, it was said it was to difficult to worship a goddess who was truth was too hard for the average man who has lies in his heart.


Funnily enough it wasn't until christianity that "evil" was so defined. Set-god of the winds, Vulcan-god of fire, Kali-goddess of disruption and fire.

All the previous dark gods were aligned to events of the earth that caused fear, volcanoes, hurricanes, floods, fire and so on. It wasn't until the late born christianity that "evil" was defined in man and that evil was aligned to man,

The whole deal with the good and evil issue just seems crazy to me. Althought I can agree that one is more liked then the other but yet without one the other simply cannot exist. How can you base what is good if you don't have a basis for what isn't? And why they are considered seperate I have no idea because compliment each other. And while I have read many different versions of religious text I feel they are just ultimately destroying each other. How would you measure good if there was no opposite and vice versa. The fact that free will is a factor is also another reason that this balance will never be completely in one sides favor. To deny the freedom of choice to the universe is like fighting a brick wall with a plastic spoon. Just plain stupid. In the grand scheme, the universe is the machine and we are the cogs. Think about it really hard. How could you think of a world or a universe with both of these extremes? If everything was good, how could you base everything that you did was good? And at what point does that basis become more strict and demanding. I think that if that were to happen, eventually there would be a change. Something that was considered good would be considered bad or vice versa. There has to be polar extremes as the universe has always pointed out to us with various demostrations. Light and darkness, positive and negative. These are just my opinions of course. You may feel free to judge accordingly

-Aza

Azathoth interesting ideas that open a whole new can of worms with me -- One where good needs evil and vice versa. And the whole concept of free will.

So is Satan evil or just the angel who took on the absolute worst job ever because it was important to God. So instead of being vilified as the ultimate evil he is actually one of Gods favorites because he undertook the job no one else would do that was crucial to Gods Plans.

And if Eve hadn't eaten that apple and used free will --we would just be sitting around in the Garden of Eden and we wouldn't have the good things in life like --oh -- hot showers, ice cream, computers and can I mention hot showers again (went 6 months without a furnace and hot water heater -- only had hot water from a tea kettle in a sink to wash with -- you really really appreciate hot showers after that )

To answer one question, Yes. Many people do respond from automatic reactions to certain words and ideas. They are programmed. We all have our programs that we got from childhood. There are a few people that are comfortable with becoming more than just a bio-machine. Thankfully, some of those come here to ATS.

As far as good and evil, it's just a matter of perspective. Are humans evil for the mass slaughter of cows? From the cows perspective I'm sure we are the most vile creatures ever to exist.

Arm Of Geddon I can tell I am going to enjoy your posts - Welcome to ATS. And that's not just beceause you seem to agree with me on this subject but I loved the cow comment.

www.theflasharchive.com...

Bovinial Terrorism? Evil Veal? Who decides?

Edit: Thanks for the Welcome.

[edit on 4-11-2005 by Arm Of Geddon]

While I agree that the treatment of cow is too harsh, we are also not the olny creatures that eat animals for sustanance. Althought I don't agree with the methods of the creation of veal but it makes no difference in the animal kingdom wiether they are young or old. All food for the carnivores. But back to the discussion. I think the idea about demons and angels is that they are attracted to a like type. I think they have free will to an extent to do their duties prescribed to them. there has to be an equal amount of strife and peace. Thought this balance may get out of check every now and then, there is no long term dismissal of one particular end of the spectrum. Welcome and enjoy the community


-Aza

Originally posted by justme1640
Can someone please explain to me why everything is evil or demons?? Is it automatic that anything you don’t understand becomes evil and/or demons? Is this something that is taught or is it an inherent part of some peoples nature?

It is because all of human understanding is based on the illusion of duality. The I and other, good and evil, negative and positive, etc. It is because in order for our conception of one thing to exist, it must have an opposite by which to define what it is not. How could we have hot if there is not cold?

Demons or evil is merely something we tell ourselves that we are not in order to feel that we are good/right people. In reality you can not divide one from the other as it is only based on an individual perception that changes through the viewpoint to positive or negative of the specific viewer.

It's the bedtime story that we lull ourselfs to sleep with. A comforting lie and nothing more.

Originally posted by justme1640
And all the people who died before Christ -- what happened to them -- didn’t they go to heaven or did heaven begin with Christ?

Before Christ died, saved and unsaved people went to hades. Hades had 2 compartments one for the saved(paradise) and one for the unsaved( a place of torment), with a great gulf between them.

Christ died and went to the paradise side of hades, He may have went to the other side also to show those on that side that He was the Savior God promised. When He rose from the dead He took with Him those from the paradise side, to heaven.

Now when an unsaved person dies they still go to the unsaved side of hades. When someone dies who has put their faith in Christ they go to the third heaven and are with God. Then one day their souls, sprits and bodies will be reunited and be incorruptible and we shall live with God, literally, and forever.

The unsaved will also be reunited body, soul and spirit and will enter hell which will be a place of everlasting seperation from God, literally and forever.

[edit on 4-11-2005 by dbrandt]

Originally posted by Azathoth
While I agree that the treatment of cow is too harsh, we are also not the olny creatures that eat animals for sustanance. Althought I don't agree with the methods of the creation of veal but it makes no difference in the animal kingdom wiether they are young or old. All food for the carnivores. But back to the discussion.

My intention (even with the flash movie link) was not to put the focus on cows. The intention was to add more subtle layers to the similarities between the human-cow relationship and the demon-human relationship. Thus reinforcing the idea that it depends on the perspective. Of course, that is viewing the interactions from consciousness. Viewing the interactions from an objective vantage point will show negative and positive poles within the physical universe. The negative is not evil. The positive is not good. These are just interpretations given to us by religion and society.

I think the idea about demons and angels is that they are attracted to a like type. I think they have free will to an extent to do their duties prescribed to them. there has to be an equal amount of strife and peace. Thought this balance may get out of check every now and then, there is no long term dismissal of one particular end of the spectrum. Welcome and enjoy the community


-Aza

Generally speaking I agree. But the specifics seem to be more intricate. A demon is nothing more than a being that advanced beyond the need for a physical body. But having chosen the negative polarity they have blocked the channel for the influx of non-polarized energy. The choice of the use of the energy is up to the free-will. Since the channel is blocked they must seek out this energy from entities that don't have the channel blocked completely yet. So they create situations that produce these energies for them to feed of off. These situations are not comfortable to us so we call them evil when in fact we are the ones choosing to produce the energies they want. And they are just trying to survive.

I don't personally think that they have specific duties from a God-down perspective. I can choose to go work some place to produce a certain result and I will have a certain duty to perform. I think the same goes for the energy beings. There is a group that needs to gather energy to survive. So they each have their duties to help produce the desired result. I'm not certain if you meant from a God-down perspective or if you meant what I just stated. But for the sake of clarity for those that read this, I added it in.

Of course, the above leaves out the layers above the physical/energy universe. Also done for the sake of clarity (and brevity).

Thank you for the welcome.

Originally posted by justme1640
anyone who believes in something different is not going to heaven or is evil or misguided --- can’t there be more than one way or one name to go in the same direction towards heaven/afterlife/salvation - why must only ONE way be THE way?

To my way of thinking, much of what we believe in the US and much of the western world is the reult of Judeo-Christian thinking.
Those religious thoughts determined what was good and what was evil. It was a way to control the population in earlier times and it continues today. Directly and indirectly.

Even if you profess to not be religious, it would be hard to escape hundreds of years of the indoctrination of society. Religions told people wha to eat, what to wear, where to worship, what to think.
Religion taught us what was good and what was evil. Many things not conforming to relgious ideals, such a the paranormal was deemed evil.

Jonna - With all due respect (and I really do mean that) But, Please give me a break! -- You said in summary," Good and evil is merely an illusion we lull ourselves to bed with at night." and others seem to be following in this vein. Some things are just common sense. If I say "thank you" I'm good. If I punch you in the face, I'm Bad.

So, I guess in your opinion, if someone breaks into your or someone else's house tonight and rapes and tortures and finally kills you after days of abuse and agony. This vile creature (for he cannot be called human IMHO) is not really evil he's just the created opposite for our peace of mind. Sometimes people get so philosophical (SP?) that they forget reality and the physicality of the earth we actually have to live on.

And in answer to the original question that started this thread: Not everyone assumes all aliens are evil or demons and not everyone assumes something unknown is automatically evil. If you or anyone else has ever watched the show 'Stargate', the greys are represented as helpful "Ancients". Some people do not judge until they educate themselves about the entity or person (in the case of a psychic ) Others just are -I don't know'programmed' or raised to believe anything not like them is evil. But, in my view these are ignorant people (maybe that's harsh but, it is my opinion). Anyway, hope this helps the guy who started the thread.

[edit on 4-11-2005 by otterbaby]

Hi otterbaby -- I'm the guy who started the thread but I have to state I'm not a guy A bit of a Tom Boy maybe but don't have the plumbing to qualify as a guy. hehehe

Now here is another thread that has come up recently that deals more with what I had in mind when I started this thread.

Trading Spouses thread

Here is a woman who believes that anything other than her way of worshipping is "evil" and "demons" are involved. And boy does she believe it!!

Now, I can see that she has been taught her beliefs (or some would say brainwashed I am sure) -- I guess what I mean is she would never dream of questioning what she has been taught in fact I am sure that if a question crossed her mind she would fear for her soul.

Then you get the people who have some great Bible programs on their computers because they can pull quotes out of it and fill whole pages when they are answering a post. I usually get lost in those posts because they put so much into them - but it seems a lot of I just don't get what they are trying to get across with all the quotes - they put all this info in the post but never get to the point of stating their answer. So often at the end of this type of post I am sitting here thinking "I still have no idea what you feel after a full page of typing"

Otter- I know not everyone assumes all aliens are evil or demons or assumes something unkown is automatically evil -- I just get concerned sometimes when I see so many of this type of response.

I remember when Archie Bunker was on tv -- I couldn't believe there was anyone anywhere like that -- that it had to be a figment of someones imagination -- then I met people who could give Archie a run for his money.

I just don't do well with absolutes and don't understand people who see everything in black and white only.

Arm,

Yeah that is just what i was thinking.Something might be so advanced that it can create matter out of energy. Forming that matter into intelligent energy. Would be an interesting process to hear about to say the least

-Aza