Reasons for the pyramids of Egypt/South America/Mars-solved?

You know how people are always questioning the reasons why the pyramids of Egypt and South America were build, or why there appears to be pyramids on Mars...and most importantly why all the pyramids appear to have been aligned in a manner that matches Orion's belt...

I "strongly feel" that they were build in such a way to tell us where these aliens, who influenced our ancient civilizations by providing us advanced knowledge, came from.

I mean if I traveled to a distant planet, provided advanced information such as Calculus to a species that didn't even have a basic concept of Trigonometry but had a lot of potential in terms using the knowledge they've acquired to progress and eventually reach the stars themselves, I too would instruct them on building monuments that would somehow inform them that they were visited by an "alien" and show them exactly where among the stars my home world is located.

That way should they somehow master space travel they would know exactly where to go to find out that help start their civilizations.

Maybe it's like a test…..

When we reach Orion's belt, maybe we'll be invited to join some sort of federation of aliens that explorer/research/promote knowledge in other worlds. (wishful thinking)

I could go on and on about this but I would really like to know what you all think.

This is a great idea! Most explorers in eart's history have purpously left their mark. Of course a highly evolved organism would do the same. The pyramids could be compared to the Rossetta(sp?) stone. That is, if a regognized institution actually released the information...all in due time. (when oil runs out)

I believe that at some point early in our history we were visited or perhaps engineered by extraterrestrial intelligence. The only problem we have is religion. Modern religion has no place/explaination for otherworldly beings. Then who would GOD be? Alot of people don't know it but religion controls the world. Just look at the war in Iraq. It is about money mainly but also about having a christian control in a largely muslim area. Modern day missionary. The religons control the government and the government controls what we see. That is a big reason for the denials of UFO. Just imagine the loss of control if a alien race from light-years away with technology far advanced from ours were to make their precence known in a public way such as landing in Times Square. Letting us know that they have been here before or perhaps started our race. What would be the consequences?

Leaving Mars pyramids and extraterrestrial interference out...

A likely reason for the alignment of monumental sites like the Pyramids of Giza with the stars of Orion's belt is astronomy. Interestingly, the ancients Egyptians regarded the constellation Orion as Osiris. Orion/Osiris is on the celestial equator making it an ideal marker of the processional motion of the equinox.

Originally posted by Cicada
Leaving Mars pyramids and extraterrestrial interference out...

A likely reason for the alignment of monumental sites like the Pyramids of Giza with the stars of Orion's belt is astronomy. Interestingly, the ancients Egyptians regarded the constellation Orion as Osiris. Orion/Osiris is on the celestial equator making it an ideal marker of the processional motion of the equinox.

I agree with this statement. It is extremely unlikely that the pyramids were oriented to serve as a star map of sorts to guide an advanced human civilisation. Aside from the fact that there is zero evidence of aliens at all, let alone alien contact with previous human civilisations, if they wanted to let us know where they were from, there are better ways they could have done so.

For example, they could have built a star map - an actual star map, not a series of monuments that happen to reflect certain constellations and could have been built according to that orientation for any number of reasons. If they were interacting with Humanity directly in the past and wished us to know where they were from so that we could one day journey there, why not build an actual, highly detailed star map for future generations to follow? After all, Orion's Belt is hardly a small area of space. Where exactly are we supposed to go within Orion? Why leave such a vague map when they were surely capable of leaving an extremely detailed one which would leave no room for speculation. Future generations would then be able to look at it and declare that only an extraterrestrial civilisation could have constructed it.

The fact that no such map was left suggests strongly that the orientation of the pyramids is a result of human actions and human symbolism. Simply put, aliens would have done a better job. Furthermore, if I wanted to leave a message for a future, space-capable human civilisation, I would not leave it on the Earth. I would leave it in orbit, or on the Moon. This way, you know that if humans found the message, they were by definition capable of some form of space travel.

The orientation of the pyramids with the stars of the constellation Orion is probably not an accident, but it is in no way evidence of alien contact with ancient civilisations. I do not think that they were intended as a type of map, simply because their nature is ambiguous and because as star maps they do a poor job. They do not point to specific stars, they simply reflect the constellation itself. I think it is far more likely that the answer is found in Egyptian religious beliefs rather than in alien contact.

Originally posted by Jeremiah25
I agree with this statement. It is extremely unlikely that the pyramids were oriented to serve as a star map of sorts to guide an advanced human civilisation. Aside from the fact that there is zero evidence of aliens at all, let alone alien contact with previous human civilisations, if they wanted to let us know where they were from, there are better ways they could have done so.

For example, they could have built a star map - an actual star map, not a series of monuments that happen to reflect certain constellations and could have been built according to that orientation for any number of reasons. If they were interacting with Humanity directly in the past and wished us to know where they were from so that we could one day journey there, why not build an actual, highly detailed star map for future generations to follow? After all, Orion's Belt is hardly a small area of space. Where exactly are we supposed to go within Orion? Why leave such a vague map when they were surely capable of leaving an extremely detailed one which would leave no room for speculation. Future generations would then be able to look at it and declare that only an extraterrestrial civilisation could have constructed it.

The fact that no such map was left suggests strongly that the orientation of the pyramids is a result of human actions and human symbolism. Simply put, aliens would have done a better job. Furthermore, if I wanted to leave a message for a future, space-capable human civilisation, I would not leave it on the Earth. I would leave it in orbit, or on the Moon. This way, you know that if humans found the message, they were by definition capable of some form of space travel.

The orientation of the pyramids with the stars of the constellation Orion is probably not an accident, but it is in no way evidence of alien contact with ancient civilisations. I do not think that they were intended as a type of map, simply because their nature is ambiguous and because as star maps they do a poor job. They do not point to specific stars, they simply reflect the constellation itself. I think it is far more likely that the answer is found in Egyptian religious beliefs rather than in alien contact.

An Awesome reply!! I agree totally... If I didn't before, your reply would have convinced me anyway... good one...

Originally posted by Jeremiah25

For example, they could have built a star map - an actual star map, not a series of monuments that happen to reflect certain constellations and could have been built according to that orientation for any number of reasons. If they were interacting with Humanity directly in the past and wished us to know where they were from so that we could one day journey there, why not build an actual, highly detailed star map for future generations to follow? After all, Orion's Belt is hardly a small area of space. Where exactly are we supposed to go within Orion? Why leave such a vague map when they were surely capable of leaving an extremely detailed one which would leave no room for speculation. Future generations would then be able to look at it and declare that only an extraterrestrial civilisation could have constructed it.

The fact that no such map was left suggests strongly that the orientation of the pyramids is a result of human actions and human symbolism. Simply put, aliens would have done a better job.

I agree with you jerimiah but what fun would it be to settle it at that?

to add more to the conversation and such...the question is, if they wanted to be sure we were advanced enough to "join their federation" why make a completly obvious map? Why not make a vague one that would make sure that the race was capable of understanding before telling them where they were?

again, i agree with jerimiah, just thought it would be fun to add that to the other side of thinking.

Originally posted by noiro
I agree with you jerimiah but what fun would it be to settle it at that?

to add more to the conversation and such...the question is, if they wanted to be sure we were advanced enough to "join their federation" why make a completly obvious map? Why not make a vague one that would make sure that the race was capable of understanding before telling them where they were?

again, i agree with jerimiah, just thought it would be fun to add that to the other side of thinking.

Star federations and alien visitations belong in the realm of fantasy and fiction. If a time comes when we observe something solid about such subjects, then we will study and apply what we have learned at that time.

Despite what countless want-to-believe'rs publish daily, there is an absolute lack of evidenciary support for alien visitations and the like.

Our imaginations can craft fantastic and entertaining voyages for ourselves and our audiences, but we have to respect the context and value of these journeys if we are to be logical and forward-moving creatures.

There are countless amazing and fascinating facts about the pyramids based in reality. Rich histories, complex societies, the endless drive, the power of the mind - it's all right there. Humans are capable of such astounding things... Pawning off all of our advances in humanity onto some imaginary extraterrestrial benefactor is illogical and it denies man the credit he deserves for his extraordinary feats. This is unhealthy in many respects.

Zip

[edit on 10/15/2005 by Zipdot]

I read on a vanished webpage (on fortunecity.com) that the pyramids on Earth triangulated something from space. The article title was: Primer from an ancient Civilisation. Here is what was written in the conclusion:

" In short, we have made an unbelievable discovery. We have proved the existince of a highly advanced pre-flood culture.The pyramid and the Giza Necropolis are a way of establishing communication through Universal mathematics, geometry, and a time capsule approach.

What they have been trying to tell us is there is an asteroid 1/3 the size of Earth heading towards us. It is approaching on the day time of the Sun. It will be visible from Earth in 2004 in the direction of Polaris. Key sites around the World are a triangulation of it position. Do you remember the star that guided the three wise men??? Its orbit is just over 2000 years. It's all been encrypted into stone."


There is this strong intuition about pyramids being build on planets etheric canals for some purpose.

Interesting how the concept of information delivered from celestial sources continues to be an aspect of the imaginative conceptions of humankind. I don't know what's at play there, genetic memory maybe, but this conception of a higher race of benevolent wisdom givers from the stars is not that different with the archaic notion of the stars and heavenly bodies as divine beings whose dramas expressed the grand cosmic motion. It is almost as if there is an inability to recognize even the allegories we personally generate. I suppose Carl Jung would have something to say on that matter.

Though there is much evidence of extraterrestrial visitation in our history I agree with Jeremiah that the pyramids aren't some form of star mapping. Though I remember seeing something about the pyramid on Mars being on the same line of longitude and latitude as the Great Pyramid of Giza. Or something like that. If I'm remembering it correctly that would have some very serious implications as to the nature and origins of these structures.

Originally posted by Cicada
I don't know what's at play there, genetic memory maybe, but this conception of a higher race of benevolent wisdom givers from the stars is not that different with the archaic notion of the stars and heavenly bodies as divine beings whose dramas expressed the grand cosmic motion.

I think that Humanity has, in the past, associated the resting and living places of its deities with areas that seemed beyond the reach of humans themselves, in order to emphasise the divine nature of the gods. This is the reason, for example, why deities are said to live atop towering mountain peaks, or at the bottom of the ocean, or deep under the Earth. Or in the stars, which must have been the ultimate expression of the unobtainable for ancient civilisations.

Examples of this association between impressive or unobtainable physical locations and the dwelling places of deities can be seen throughout practically every human civilisation, although a classic one is obviously Greek mythology, wherein deities were believed to have lived atop Mount Olympus, the highest mountain in Greece, as well as under the sea (Poseidon) and under the Earth itself (Hades).

Those regions which ancient Man was unable to explore naturally held an aura of mystery or curiosity, simply because they were unknown and therefore open to a greater range of possibilities. Ancient civilisations often saw their gods as human-like, but removed from the commonality of human life. The Greek gods, to use the example again, were believed to be anthropomorphic and to share many human traits and characteristics, including the ability to feel and express love, hate, passion and anger. They were even believed to interact with mortals directly on many occassions. Given these similarities, what distinguishes the gods from mortals? Obviously their power, their immortality and the fact that they live in a special realm of the gods which was beyond the reach of mere mortals. But where to place this divine dwelling? Mount Olypmus would have been the natural choice, with its majesty and grandness being representative of the power and majesty of the gods themselves.

By employing this line of thinking, we can see how ancient civilisations may have associated divine beings with the stars, which were the ultimate expression of the unobtainable mystery. Imagine gazing up at the stars through the mindset of an ancient Egyptian or Greek. You have no idea that the stars are incandescent balls of gas and plasma, you don't know what they are. You have no idea of the vastness of space and little knowledge of the intricacies of the workings of the physical world (Not to say that these peoples were not highly advanced in certain areas - mathematics and astronomy, for example. I am merely pointing out that they lacked our present perspective on such things as the scope of the universe). Now how would the stars seem to you? They would be bright points of light that shone down on you every night and moved in their patterns. They would be things of great mystery, but would be forever out of your reach. This is a potent combination, and lends itself to mystical or religious connotations and explanations.

This would also be true of many civilisations throughout the Earth, given that the stars are a constant, permanent fixture in the night sky. When we begin to examine the association between sacred places and religion, it is not difficult to perceive the reason for stars and space being held to be an abode for higher beings or gods.

Jeremiah,

Very well put and I agree. What I was getting at but didn't really clearly state, is that in many ways the present day conception of extraterrestrial visitors guiding human spiritual evolution is essentially a similar concept reworked with modern, science-fiction elements. It's as if this knowledge that the stars are the source of wisdom (a loose way of saying that religion is based on astronomy) is in some way inherent to our species and we frame this concept using terms that are immediate and familiar to us.

I have to agree with what Cicada and other have said. But let me ask this, I took an image of Orion and overlaid it on top of the pyramids. Can anyone tell me if any ruins have been found where other stars from the Orion constellation would fall? See image....




Image overlay is rough and approximate.

I understand that Angkor Wat in Cambodia is aligned to Draco in the same fashion that Giza is aligned to Orion, and in both cases, the alignment is based on positioning of the constellations from 10,500 BCE. Not that I believe that they are "Star Maps" but it is a strange coincidence.

Isn't this the plot of the great show Stargate SG-1? Aliens ( Goa'uld) enslaved people on Earth mainly in Egypt. Pyramids were built as landing pads for their ships (Ha'tak mothership). And they eventually got bored and left, leaving the Stargate behind to come back or so that we could go to them.






And now just for fun:

First off, j619pinoy, welcome to ATS. I'm just returning here myself after about a 2 month hiatus, and yours is the first post I'm responding to because this is one of those things that I enjoy playing the devil's advocate for. So please don't take my words as offense, but rather, those of an open-minded skeptic.

IMO, Mankind's greatest failing is refusing to acknowledge their own capabilities, and instead attribute them to something beyond their own power. Aliens need not have built the pyramids. Despite the popular myth, everything about the pyramids was entirely possible to build given the resources of the day. The reason it is considered impossible by today's standards is that there aren't several teams comprising 20,000 workers standing by. Manpower can be replaced by machinery only to a degree when it comes to old-world construction. Perhaps another reason people feel it is impossible is because so few people nowadays want to even -think- about problem solving. The hanging stones of...whatever city that is in Egypt, could not possibly be lifted atop the columns by a crane. But by simply human ingenuity, one need only build a wooden scaffolding, filled with mud, let it dry, and create a gentle slope to move the rock until it rests atop the columns, then wash away the mud and dismantle the scaffolding. And lifing a monolithic stone is nothing when you have as many people as you need to lift it along with water to turn silty mud into a nearly frictionless surface.

The Egyptions were brilliant engineers, and why not? The greatest centers of learning at the time were quite nearby. Other centers of learning, in Greece, were just across the Mediterranean, and their greatest minds frequently visited Egypt.

It should stand to reason, then, that the pyramids would match a constellation readily visible from Earth. If the Egyptians had nearly cracked Pi, and were able to make perfect 90 degree angles, and perform feats of engineering through simple observance and problem solving, then certainly one of them would have thought to look upward, plot the constellation, and then mimic it along the ground, in honor of Orion, or whomever. It had meaning, was a readily visible and identifiable constellation, and thus probably was the reason it was chosen. I haven't heard about the pyramids in South America matching Orion's belt, but let's face it, Orion's belt is 3 stars roughly in a line. That's not the most original of shapes, and would still be easily visible, as it's about the latitude as Egypt.

Additionaly, the Pyramid shape itself. Again, not a terribly surprising shape for a multi-story building that was erected in an age before flying buttresses and arches. If you wanted to build upward, and didn't want one of your walls to fall down, then your next story up had to be built slightly inward, usually on top of whatever support below existed. It stood up well to high-winds because of the shape, it kept the walls from falling down, and it provided a terrace which could be used for decor, ceremony, public congregation, etc. The ziggurats of the ancient Sumarians and the Mayans especially used this feature, as their purpose was more as a temple-apartment complex than a tomb. Truthfully, if a higher intelligence had built the Egyptian pyramids, they wouldn't have wasted all that material on one person per pyramid. An interstellar travelling race is going to have a lot more respect for the limitations of space and resources.

Finally, there is quite a bit of documentation available about the building of ziggurats and of pyramids. Long lists of building materials and costs have been found, along with where they were obtained from, how they were made, etc. For instance, "bitumen", the tarry stuff that acted like concrete, and "baked brick" were used for the later ziggurats and were considered a VAST improvement over the previously smaller, more delicate (and by that time, crumbling) structures. Ample evidence is found for how they were created, from where, and how much it costs to make, with zero mention of aliens. If a higher intelligence had, in fact, made the first Ziggurats, I would think that primitive man would be hard-pressed to find a "vast" improvement as simple as baking a brick first or using tar.

So, in essence, I don't believe aliens had anything to do with the building of the pyramids. It was entirely human ingenuity.

Now, in answer to your other thought about aliens leaving a monument to test a promising species ability to figure out their origins, it would make far more sense to place them on another planet, because if you can make it to another planet, you're halfway through the mystery, and a lot closer along the timeline towards having the -ability- to travel the stars, whereas an Earth-anchored monument would serve little purpose for too long of a time in an environment subject to change and destruction. So, I'd rule out any structure on Earth being an alien test. It could too easily be destroyed beforehand. But you have to figure that if we were smart enough to get to another planet, then I could start to agree. However, at that point we'd be far beyond just looking at pretty shapes and constellations. We'd be into hard math, or symbols. I think they'd be more likely to create a structure that would be investigated, and inside find a star chart of some sort, or perhaps symbols that could be mathematically interpreted as language (a Rosetta-stone sorta wossname) and then have their message for us be a bit more specific: "You are property of the Blartnorf Empire,"
or "Tresspassers to Star System X will be shot,"
or "Come on over and bring the brews!"

thelibra, I agree with a lot of what you said, as always a fantastic post and welcome back to ATS. I was wondering where you had gone...

One thing that I have a problem with, especailly to do with the Egyptian Pyramid's is some of the reports on its construction. Labour time/construction time to me is...amazing. I always remember reading one well written article [I'll find] that claims it would take 100,000square feet of material to make a 20% ramp to the top of the pyramid.

There are other, minor problems I have with the way it was built although I tend to agree it has nothing to do with aliens but rather are own ability as people. I hold the believe we were a lot more intelligent than we give ourselves credit for.

Originally posted by j619pinoy
You know how people are always questioning the reasons why the pyramids of Egypt and South America were build,

Only those who don't want to believe that the people themselves were smart enough and technologically advanced enough to build them.

or why there appears to be pyramids on Mars

Natural lanforms. We have them here on Earth.

...and most importantly why all the pyramids appear to have been aligned in a manner that matches Orion's belt...

Only if you REALLY tweak the data. It's flipped the wrong way. Nor do all (or even most) pyramid sites "match Orion's belt."

I too would instruct them on building monuments that would somehow inform them that they were visited by an "alien" and show them exactly where among the stars my home world is located.

Out of local materials? Why not leave them with plastic AND a detailed map of the night sky with a circle around the star.

That way should they somehow master space travel they would know exactly where to go to find out that help start their civilizations.

No they wouldn't.

When we reach Orion's belt, maybe we'll be invited to join some sort of federation of aliens that explorer/research/promote knowledge in other worlds. (wishful thinking)

I think that you have a few misunderstandings about Orion's Belt.

The stars aren't in a line. They only LOOK like they're in a line. Nor are they very close. Nor are there three of them. If you look at the area of the sky around Orion's Belt you'll see dim and distant galaxies, nebulas, and a host of other stars. And they aren't close to each other, either. Some of those features are a million light years and more away from each other.

The glaring discrepancy I see with this theory is that we've tried to replicate the building of the Giza Pyramid and failed woefully. Not only did the suggestion that it could be performed with the simple tools proposed fall apart immediately,but even resorting to our tools thousands of years more advanced still couldn't cut it. So the idea would not appear to be an underestimation so much as an acknowledgement of proven fact.

Odium - Thanks! Good to be back. I'm a married man now, and let me say Puerto Vallarta is a fantastic honeymoon site. As for the amount of materials to reach the top. I'm not certain, but if Egypt had one thing for certain, it was a lot of mud, and a lot of water.

Loungerist - Our modern attempts didn't use 20,000 slaves and workers, nor were ancient Egyptions particularly concerned about zoning regulations, and environmental restrictions, union regulations, or fatalities on the job. I assure you that given these things, (and of course the building materials) even I could build a pyramid.