This morning's silent reflection

Hello members and guests of ATS.

In the two years since Sept. 11, 2001, the view of the United States as a victim of terrorism that deserved the world's sympathy and support has given way to a widespread vision of America as an imperial power that has defied world opinion through unjustified and unilateral use of military force. Many of our members are "Americans" and many more are sympathetic to the the current plight of America. Nearly a third of our members are not American, and many of those consider America in the not-so-favorable light mentioned above.

We paused this morning for 58 minutes of "silent reflection"of the 9/11/2001 events (from the time of the first attack on the WTC, to the third attack on the Pentagon) not as a ploy for sympathy, but as a request to consider this complex moment in history. The majority of our members have come to AboveTopSecret.com after the 9/11/2001 events. They are a defining moment of our era as the culmination of conspiratorial theory, considerations of scandal, and government manipulation of information. As such, we took this time to remind everyone why we come here, why we discuss these topics, and in essence, why we ask why.

As we progress past the two-year mark since these events, we seem to have more questions than answers. Not so much questions about the events of 9/11/2001, but questions about the world affairs leading up to, and following these events. It's time to regain our focus on understanding the complexities of the global influences that cause our governments to act the way they do. And perhaps, in the mean time, discover the truth.


If you missed it, here is the image that was displayed in place of the discussion board for 58 minutes this morning.


[Edited on 11-9-2003 by William]

It was a great idea William.
I'd give you props, but it's those thousands of people who died that day we need to congratulate.
It's those people fighting and dyeing in Iraq as we speak.
It's those people defending freedom even when they are hundeds of miles away.
It's America we need to honor, she's the reason we fight.

In remembrance,
- Tass

I didn't want this to be rallying call for flag-waving ra-ra.

Far from it.

Certainly people have died, and continue to die as soldiers in this struggle, and they deserve respect.

However... let's strive to focus deeper than the mere surface ripples to the leviathan below.

William,

Thanks a lot neighbor.

There are no victims anywhere...death is an illusion.
William, you will find more peace if you honor the whole cycle not just aspects of it.

[Edited on 11-9-2003 by Voice_of Doom]

I wasn't online at that time to see the reflection but I honored the silence reflection in another way...sleeping.

Very worthy sentiments.

The significance of "58 minutes" has not lodged with me before.

It doesn't incorporate what happened to a commuter plane going down in Pennsylvania, and what may have been prevented by a group of four anti-terrorism conspirators on board (or by one solitary NORAD strike).

Also, in angry mode, it will never be erased from the memory of sane, rational, democratic, freedom-loving people, what 'president' and Commander-In-Chief George W Bush was doing in those 58 minutes.

I was just in a reallybubbly mood. I wanted to sound all caring and stuff.

I understand you openend this thread hoping someone would realize the immoral capitalist values which are in fact, the reasonn we lost so manyt lives that day. Bush may not be you leviathan, but he's definetly a shark...
- Tassadar

Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
Also, in angry mode, it will never be erased from the memory of sane, rational, democratic, freedom-loving people, what 'president' and Commander-In-Chief George W Bush was doing in those 58 minutes.

Ahh... now somebody "got" it.

58 minutes is a long time.

Since then it's been Bout Time - a fight for the pound of flesh that needs to be removed from the hides of those truely responsible.
I called my brother as the first thing yesterday from the Metro North platform, and asked him to please give his kid brother a 'heads up'. You see, he's a retired military officer now working in his same MO for a huge gov. contractor. I had planned to be out of NYC all week, but a global activation project actually had me in the city for double shifts. The entire train ride in yesterday....I talked to a Desert Storm vet who was on the USS Enterprise....we spoke of being guiena pigs by virtue of service....we spoke of him being on the ground and checking corpses without any shielding from DU fallout....we spoke of him being 'tracked' for data from gov.medical officials, yet being told it's just sampling & nothings wrong... we spoke of the anger that keeps you up at night over being 'on the ground' and not having the historical record be anywhere near true....

My counterpart from the office handling the Asia Pac piece tells me she is stressed at flying out of NY on 9/11....I just stare at her for a brief moment and realize it's just an innocent overlook. I go to my favorite shop to grab a sandwhich and notice the thinned out herd on the sidewalk, realizing that today will be an elected vaction day for many from here on in. I'm sad again for a moment as I sit in my office and realize that the guy who turned me on to the combo I'm eating for lunch, which he ordered the last time we had food delivered into a meeting over a the World Trade, isn't here anymore...not a friend, but a good person and business colleague.
I knock off at 5 pm; unheard of for me..but I just didn't want to be there....I don't wear bitter well and my own bed was calling me.

No one seems to realize that there's nothing more tragic about losing someone in 9/11, than there is losing someone in a damn car accident. Yet, were expected to tip toe around these people as if they're really f*cking special. Piss on them! Get over it! Everyone else in the world who loses someone, no matter how tragic, has to go on with their lives....and most of the time, without gov't compensation!

No one questions that the people who lost loved ones in the 9/11 attacks suffered a tragedy that will stay with them for the rest of their lives, but was their loss any greater than that suffered by families who lost a family member in an auto accident, or a fire, or during the commission of a crime or in any of the dozens of ways in which people meet an untimely, unexpected death?

I don't think so. A tragic death is a tragic death regardless who or what causes it.

Certainly some firemen and some policemen and some of the victims of those attacks performed heroic acts that day, but the majority of people who were killed in the attacks were victims, nothing more. They were no more heroic than the pedestrian run down by a drunk driver, or the woman beat to death by her enraged husband for no apparent reason, or the innocent bystander killed in a driveby shooting.

All these deaths were tragic, all these victims are missed by their loved ones, many, if not most, of these deaths could probably have been prevented, which makes them all the more tragic, but these people were victims, not heroes.

I simply don't understand what makes the victims of 9/11 "special", and I don't understand why so many people think that the families of the 9/11 victims should be made instant millionaires, while so many other families can't even afford to give a decent burial to the loved ones they lost.

Many people want the site of the Towers to be turned into a shrine or memorial. If this is done, shouldn't we erect a memorial at the site of every accidental death?

I've been wondering why they're any more important than anyone else. No matter how many people died total, any family or friend of anyone who died in the WTC, only lost one or two family members or friends. To me, that's no different than any instance in which someone can lose them to death. It may sound cold, but no one whose lost someone really gives a rats ass about all those other people they didn't know. They may say they do, but I still hold to the fact that it's pretty much impossible to care for someone you never knew existed.

PERFECT! Well written. I thought I was the only one that thought that way. But I guess not.


(It's possible to praize the post right about your response without quoting the entire text of a long post)

[Edited on 13-9-2003 by William]

Originally posted by Satyr
I simply don't understand what makes the victims of 9/11 "special",

I don't understand why you posted this here.

Clearly our moment of silent reflection was not about the victims of the three attacks... but the effects the attacks have had on society.

Why not start a different thread?

Sorry. This was the only topic I saw posted on the subject, recently. I'll post it elsewhere.
Society went on with their lives. Only those that wallow in self pity dwell on this. Frankly, I'm tired of it.

Go ahead and delete the post, if you don't feel it's appropriate in this thread. I posted it in chit chat. I'd delete it myself, but I don't have that privilege.

[Edited on 13-9-2003 by Satyr]

I don't really see anybody making "Heroes" out of the people who died in 9-11 with the exception of the HEROES who died in 9-11 (which you sort of pointed out... the Police/Fire folks)...

As William said, this thread was toward the POINTED questions left in the aftermath of and the lead up to this disaster...

58 minutes went by with NO RESPONSE at all... Why? Many things have happened since, why? Who knows if what we are told is truth, fiction or the cover Du`Jour?

THIS is what is going on here...

Frankly, I really don't know hwat you mean when say there seems to be a "hero worship" trend being directed at the victims of 9-11... Most everything I have heard, read or discussed relative to those people is in the "Victim", NOT hero sense...

Sounds like you lostr a loved one VERY dear to you in the past... I lost my Dad two years ago and I know how you feel...

PEACE...
m...